wild steelhead coalition
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wildmanyeah
Crew Member
I generally think its saying all the right things
however,
expecting people to lay down their rods to become advocates and conservationists for steelhead is a big ask.
however,
expecting people to lay down their rods to become advocates and conservationists for steelhead is a big ask.
searun
Well-Known Member
Many have already either stopped steelhead fishing or seriously curtailed their encounters. The real challenge is finding a way to build a united stakeholder community without the usual finger wagging.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
yeah and what are they doing now advocating for steelhead or have they moved on to something else.
my point was not that its hard to get them to stop fishing that's easy. My point its hard to get them to stay engaged after they have stopped fishing.
i mean are we really expecting people who were fishing for a hobby to instead spend their hobby dollars on conservation and spend there free time being steelhead advocates?
Agree agent, not sure how this will help Thompson and Chilcotin steelhead.
searun
Well-Known Member
Agreed, it won't help up on this side of the 49th. The concept is still relevant, that is if we stakeholders could ever agree on something. Thus far its been endless meetings that end in the usual arguments. No wonder the Province sits on their hands...who would want to take anything on when it comes to Steelhead? You would have to enjoy an incredibly thick skin and have a legal team behind you to ward off the buckets of inflammatory attacks on your job.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Spreading the Word
An excellent piece of work by a dedicated group of wild steelhead advocates who recognize steelhead don’t recognize borders. This piece has already received a fair bit of exposure but the bro…
steelheadvoices.com
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
and this is helping how?
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Bob Hooton
October 25, 2021 at 10:54 pm
And what response does it get over on another social media site from a person that refuses to identify himself because it would reveal his close connection to DFO? His comment: “Isn’t this an American organization focused on US interests and US watersheds/funding?” Dear “agentaqua”, please enlighten us on what difference that makes to the message being delivered by the WSC.
October 25, 2021 at 10:54 pm
And what response does it get over on another social media site from a person that refuses to identify himself because it would reveal his close connection to DFO? His comment: “Isn’t this an American organization focused on US interests and US watersheds/funding?” Dear “agentaqua”, please enlighten us on what difference that makes to the message being delivered by the WSC.
Interesting how some bloggers never wish to interact on a public, anonymous discussion forum where the debate is focused on the contents rather than the messenger - where they are instead just another equal voice. And I've never been a big fan of blind hero worship, neither. But that's ok - egos are a poor fit in any team effort anyways - they get in the way.
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OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
And the word is anonymous.
He is not, yet you think because you are it is a good thing?
You because you are anonymous are just a voice and due to this do not have the credentials as he does.
Google is your name.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
So, all we see and hear is this will not work and that will not work. Most due to egos.
Pretty sad group. The demise of Steelhead is nigh and no group is willing to work together.
Really, who cares if the US has a group that is working on it and is helping?
If that is what it takes, then let’s make it all about the Steelhead.
Pretty sad group. The demise of Steelhead is nigh and no group is willing to work together.
Really, who cares if the US has a group that is working on it and is helping?
If that is what it takes, then let’s make it all about the Steelhead.
searun
Well-Known Member
Content and open discussion, without fear of personal attacks, is what these blog forums are all about, otherwise people wouldn't sign in as they do under a blog name. That is because, I believe, if you can personalize the attack it provides more fuel for those who might seek to use their positional power or otherwise to bully others into submission instead of simply honestly offering perspectives. People on these forums should be free to offer perspectives without fear for personalized attacks so long as they are not crossing the line/rules set out by the forum host. If you want to publish something and put it out there in other formats such as websites you host, then fair comment that people who do so should identify authorship.
Bryan Allen
Well-Known Member
What I see here is fishers who should be lighting their hair over the dismal and unproductive arguing over stupid opinions instead of addressing the issue. How do we get the politicians and bureaucrats to address what they should be doing-- working to save steelhead in the face of a multitude of negative factors ? No wonder so many anglers have said " Fu## It "
Sharphooks
Well-Known Member
With all due respects, agentaqua....at least Steelhead Voices has been a consistent messenger of just how bad things have gotten for the wild steelhead resource, and through multiple years of blogs, has both suggested and promoted strategic advice on what regulatory officials should consider when addressing the dismal returns of wild steelhead we have seen on BOTH sides of the 49th Parallel this year.
This isn’t about hero worship or personality...it’s about spreading the alarm. Steelhead Voices has been consistent in this messaging, even providing contact information for regulatory officials so that we steelhead fishers as a group could at least reach out with correspondence and broadcast our concerns. When the Victoria/Smithers offices of FLNRORD decided to open the Skeena to rec steelhead fishing this past September (translation: rec fishery = lodge owners and guides) I was apoplectic: I had cancelled my trip, a trip I’ve made every year since 1976, to leave those poor fish alone, yet here was a regulatory office signalling to the steelhead sport fishing community that all was o.k. with the resource....have at it, gentlemen.
It was heartening to me to see Steelhead Voices take up the fight against FLNRORD’s stunningly tactless decision to open the Skeena rec fishery. Nobody else made a peep about that reckless decision that I was aware of. In fact, I was quietly dismayed that so few people on this website voiced their concerns about that decision. SportFishingBC????? Only a handful of members seemed to even mention or recognize that such a decision had been made. At least Steelhead Voices took up the fight with the passion that wild steelhead deserve, placing correspondence specifically addressed to FLNRORD officials in Smithers and Victoria and DFO officials in Prince Rupert by the Outdoor Recreation Council of BC and the Terrace, Prince Rupert and Kitimat Rod and Gun Clubs on its website so readers like me could see that I wasn’t the only one who fell out of my chair at FLNRORD’s heedless and negligent decision to open the Skeena.
The fact that Steelhead Voices published names and address of those who were responsible for that decision allowed me to take my disgust and anger and at least turn it into a constructive piece of correspondence to the FLNRORD officials in both Smithers and Victoria. I posed the question: was the decision to open the season based on an economic model or a conservation model?
Without a hint of a blush, I received a response to that question from a FLNRORD official in Smithers....yes, it was an economic decision, but worry not; we mitigated that decision with a bait ban.....(I’m not making this up). That response placed a huge magnifying glass on just how bad things have gotten for the BC wild steelhead resource and I applaud Steelhead Voices for `the constant reminder that yes, this is how the regulatory side of that resource rolls.
Extreme Conservation Concern? Yes, but those lodge owners. Where would we be without lodges and guides??
Without Steelhead Voices and their help in publishing names and address of who and where to send correspondence to, I would have been left to simmer in my revulsion at the thought of the guides in Smithers and Terrace pounding those poor fish with their clients.
And the in-river gillnets.....
Yes, Steelhead Voices takes issue with First Nation gillnets, especially in the Fraser River. SO DO I !!! This isn’t a racist stance as some people would like to frame it. It is for the simple fact that with the absolutely critical state of the resource for Thompson and Chilcotin and other interior Fraser wild steelhead stocks, there is zero justification for allowing in-river gill netting by ANYBODY in this day and age.
Gill nets are completely indiscriminate as to what they kill, and when you’re down to < 100 returning adult steelhead (as is the case of the THompson River per Albion Test Fishery results) how can one in good conscience possibly allow in river gillnetting? How can they possibly be justified?????
I went back and read some of your comments in past SFBC posts regarding in-river gill nets:
QUOTE
Nov 1, 2020
Gillnets are size-selective. larger mesh (6"+) are used for Chinook & chum. Smaller sockeye and steelhead typically go through the larger mesh
hanging ratio & fishing method affects bycatch - yes, of course. But claiming that chum nets catch steelhead w/o the caveats as to how that works - lacks demonstration of understanding of how gillnets work. Sockeye nets are much smaller - typically ~4&3/4". Steelhead are typically closer to sockeye-size verses chum or Chinook - altho there are occasional larger fish.
UNQUOTE
I remember my first thought after reading those comments was: whoever posted that is either on the payroll of an in-river gill netting association or must be affiliated with the DFO and must have reasons to protect the decision-makers for the in-river chum fishery openings in the Fraser despite plummeting IFS spawning populations, clearly a set of regulatory fishery decisions that had absoutely NOTHING to do with resource conservation and everything to do with a political decision that was intertwined with Reconciliation.
I’m sure I was wrong about such a supposition. It was just my first thought—— complete dumbfoundment that someone would post spurious technical information like that on a public website, meanwhile, (and presumably), completely aware that Thompson steelhead were and are literally on the verge of extirpation.
I gillnetted sockeye and chinook in Bristol Bay. You and I both know that anything that swims into a gillnet does not swim back out. Even if a gill net is hot-picked, a revival box is just window dressing. And to say that steelhead are typically closer in size to sockeye and can survive an encounter with a gillnet????? To put that in writing defied comprehension. And we’re talking THompson River steelhead!!!!!
So, I have to ask: Have you ever seen a Thompson River steelhead?
Here’s what they look like:
I’m here to tell you that comparing their size to a sockeye was disingenuous at best. Again, and with all due respect, the steelhead in the above picture will not swim through the imaginary gill net with the sophisticated hanging ratio that was constructed for your SFBC readers in November, 2020
I fished the Thompson River for 20 years. If my girlfriend or I ever hooked a steelhead under 10 lbs out of that river (i.e. a sockeye-sized steelhead) we would remark to each other—-oh, look, a Morice stray...
Say what you will about Steelhead Voices: the word reckless doesn’t come to mind when reading that blog
Using hanging ratios to justify in-river gill netting? Mentioning that IFS steelhead survival is assured due to those hanging ratios and we need not worry?
Not so much.
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IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
EXTREMELY Well Said Sharphooks!
I absolutely concur with every single word.
Cheers & Thanks!
Matt
I absolutely concur with every single word.
Cheers & Thanks!
Matt
Thanks for the thoughtful, experienced and respectful response sharphooks. If you go back and reread all the posts I have made on the steelhead/gillnet issue you should find that:
1/ I have never denied that some Fraser steelhead and some other watersheds stocks are not in peril,
2/ I have never denied that gillnets can have an impact esp. in the larger watersheds with comigrating stock/species @ risk.
But I have been pretty consistent is suggesting that:
1/ not all watersheds are the same wrt species escapement composition and timing and challenges with enforcement/timing using gillnets inriver,
2/ there are numerous factors that impact the assertions on gillnet bycatch (length, timing & mesh size esp.)
3/ There are other really serious issues besides gillnets that are impacting both salt and freshwater stages of steelhead and salmon in general that may be more critical to address - and this comment is backed by science
I standby those comments and experiences.
and finally if one wishes to generate changes in fisheries management - one needs allies - esp. FNs. I am supportive that one particular blog has assisted you personally - but has the approach taken by that blogger changed anything, really? Has belligerence towards other user groups assisted in changing anything - or maybe a team approach would be more productive? What do you think?
1/ I have never denied that some Fraser steelhead and some other watersheds stocks are not in peril,
2/ I have never denied that gillnets can have an impact esp. in the larger watersheds with comigrating stock/species @ risk.
But I have been pretty consistent is suggesting that:
1/ not all watersheds are the same wrt species escapement composition and timing and challenges with enforcement/timing using gillnets inriver,
2/ there are numerous factors that impact the assertions on gillnet bycatch (length, timing & mesh size esp.)
3/ There are other really serious issues besides gillnets that are impacting both salt and freshwater stages of steelhead and salmon in general that may be more critical to address - and this comment is backed by science
I standby those comments and experiences.
and finally if one wishes to generate changes in fisheries management - one needs allies - esp. FNs. I am supportive that one particular blog has assisted you personally - but has the approach taken by that blogger changed anything, really? Has belligerence towards other user groups assisted in changing anything - or maybe a team approach would be more productive? What do you think?
agent, you're missing the fact we are talking Fraser River steelhead gillnet interception, not other rivers and other watersheds, or length, timing and mesh size where gillnetting happens. Of course there are other factors affecting survival of these fish, but when you are down to so very few every fish counts.
I agree FN have to be at the table but they also have to be accountable for there actions.
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