Where are the herring ?

[wildmanyeah]

There is nothing whatsoever sustainable about a kill-fishery for roe. It defies every sustainability concept where a species is allowed to reproduce at least once before it can be harvested. To kill herring before spawing to harvest the roe only is such a deplorable waste. A waste of the carcasses and a waste of the roe biomass. For a few people to consume a few spoonful of roe as a delicacy to sacrifice millons of future herrings that would have been the foundation of future herring stock is just plain stupid and endlessly greedy. Same as the sturgeon caviar industry. It is downright criminal.

If a roe fishery needs to be then the spawn on weed concept is a much better way because it leaves the mature herring alive to grow bigger and spawn another year and also contribute to the natural food chain in the ocean. But I question the principle of eating millions of tiny eggs that could develop into something so valuable.

i don’t understand why I can’t use organic blood, bone and fish meal in my garden to grow vegetables

but instead they have should be used as a feed to grow chinook for you to bonk.

is there not a solution where
We both can win or should we just shut it all down.

 

[Klob]

Never before has so much been wasted so that a few can make so much.

 

[terrin]

I struggle to find that correlation. If someone could show me that "x" amount of fish are impacted by taking roe vs. "y" via another method I could easily agree with you. Is there science to support any of it? Again, I'm not looking to bash it, or shut it down. Just looking to understand it better. What percentage of the total biomass is being harvested? Has that percentage changed over the years? Was that percentage ever proven to be sustainable in other areas? What other factors impact these fish that we can measure? I'd love to hear more than "we've been doing it forever. It's sustainable becuase I said so". When I talk to friends and share things on Social Media I want to be confident that what I'm supporting and defending is backed by facts. I figured this would be a great place to learn more about it.

The roe on kelp fishery allows the mature herring to live and spawn year after year for up to ten or so years

 

[terrin]

From San Francisco up to and throughout SE Alaska, in Russia etc

There are a variety of fisheries including roe, food, bait, roe on kelp, roe on hemlock, aquaculture, aquariums, fertilizers etc

If you want some science on herring contact the Pacific Biological Centre in Nanaimo. At one time my dad had a number of their publications on herring back when science was science (not politics).

The stocks were virtually fished out by the early 1960’s due to reduction seining and after about a 10 year closure it reopened as a roe fishery during the early 1970’s in late February through to early April plus some food fishing in November. Stocks continued to rebound and healthy catches occurred all over BC.

Alas apparent overfishing in the 1980’s and 1990’s again mainly by seines damaged many stocks throughout BC. These fisheries were being closely monitored and openings managed by DFO! At least in theory DFO managed as it’s pretty clear they did a poor job in many areas. Now the only commercial fishery left is this little one in the Gulf and I expect it to continue to face challenges not the least of which is to close it all because it sounds like the right thing to do.

That being said as I mentioned earlier there are far bigger issues to be explained about herring stocks all over BC. Why are they not recovering like last time? Perhaps we need to examine kelp and eel grass densities to see if there are “good homes” for the eggs. How’s the water temperature on shore and off shore? Any changes in salinity? Any changes in the predators? How’s survival rates out in the ocean? That’s just that “science thing” again. But what do I know? I’m just a fisherman.

So as you say they did shut the herring fishery down for ten years due to overfishing and then reopened it but somehow if if they close it down now it would never reopen. Why the difference from then and now?

 

[dmurph]

derby’s point was that herring fishermen are a passionate group of individuals, just like us who love the ocean and believe their fishery’s are sustainable just as we do regarding salmon

 

[Derby]

Derby...I understand you are a player in the negations with DFO and chinook closures.....right or wrong?
Either way, it seems from your post you think the best way to stop the non retention of Chinook salmon closure about to start April 1 is to allow the Commercial over harvesting of our herring stocks to continue?
Please keep in mind this thread is about Herring.
Is that the best plan you have to offer.
If you want to expand the discussion to other areas, please open another thread!

Oh I see you have become the moderator.. LOL with each of your posts it become very clear you have no idea how things are manage or for that matter have skin in the game... There is no negations with DFO we can only submit our advice..

 

[wildmanyeah]

So as you say they did shut the herring fishery down for ten years due to overfishing and then reopened it but somehow if if they close it down now it would never reopen. Why the difference from then and now?

now they are not being over fished so there is little to gain in terms of fishery reductions.

So what political number of herring would you like there to be to open a fishery?

if we make the political decision to allocated the herring to the eco system why would it ever open again?

 

[terrin]

now they are not being over fished so there is little to gain in terms of fishery reductions.

So what political number of herring would you like there to be to open a fishery?

if we make the political decision to allocated the herring to the eco system why would it ever open again?

Well as per Redfisher’s post the herring were overfished in the 60’s commercial fishing closed down for ten years then overfished again in the late 80’s and 90’s was this due to science being wrong or was it political?

 

[wildmanyeah]

What number do you want terrin?? Or do you just want it closed

Strait of Georgia herring spawning biomass.​

A management approach utilizing a 20% harvest rate for Pacific Herring was introduced in 1983 and commercial fishing thresholds or cut-off levels were added in 1986. The 20% harvest rate was based on an analysis of stock dynamics, which indicates this level would stabilize both catch and spawning biomass while foregoing minimum yield over the long term (Hall et al. 1988, Zheng et al. 1993). The commercial cut-off levels were established at 25% of the unfished spawning biomass, as determined by an analysis of stock-recruitment data from 1951-1996. The Canadian Science Advisory Secretariat (CSAS) reviewed the biological basis for target exploitation rate, considering both the priority of assuring conservation of the resource and allowing sustainable harvesting opportunities (Schweigert and Ware 1995).

 

[terrin]

What number do you want terrin?? Or do you just want it closed

View attachment 77217

Strait of Georgia herring spawning biomass.​

A management approach utilizing a 20% harvest rate for Pacific Herring was introduced in 1983 and commercial fishing thresholds or cut-off levels were added in 1986. The 20% harvest rate was based on an analysis of stock dynamics, which indicates this level would stabilize both catch and spawning biomass while foregoing minimum yield over the long term (Hall et al. 1988, Zheng et al. 1993). The commercial cut-off levels were established at 25% of the unfished spawning biomass, as determined by an analysis of stock-recruitment data from 1951-1996. The Canadian Science Advisory Secretariat (CSAS) reviewed the biological basis for target exploitation rate, considering both the priority of assuring conservation of the resource and allowing sustainable harvesting opportunities (Schweigert and Ware 1995).

Was the “overfishing” of the 60’s and 90’s based on science or political?
if we can understand what caused that overfishing to occur it can help inform us of how to deal with our current situation.
They closed down the herring fishery for ten years in late 60’s due to overfishing.

 

[Aces]

That was a shame they shut down the roe on kelp fishery in area 7. It’s about as sustainable as fishery can get. Herring are returned to the ocean as soon as they’ve spawned on the kelp. There’s not a lot of mortality involved.

I so agree. The roe on kelp harvesting is far superior with no reduction of the biomass

 

[Whitebuck]

Hey WMY those endangered reds from Puget Sound that you speak of. Does the data from Howe Sound show if those are hatchery fish or in fact Wilds? The data you are talking about should clearly show this.

 

[Cookie's Cutter]

Soundings show low herring numbers in Strait of Georgia

DFO says soundings only give information for in-season fishery management

www.vancouverislandfreedaily.com

 

[Redfisher]

Was the “overfishing” of the 60’s and 90’s based on science or political?
if we can understand what caused that overfishing to occur it can help inform us of how to deal with our current situation.
They closed down the herring fishery for ten years in late 60’s due to overfishing.

You do understand that a closure on herring could also mean
1. No recreational herring fishery
2. No bait fishery, hence no bait for sports fisherman
3. Add in any other scenario that means closed

If closures happen in todays political climate it usuallly means closed permanently.

Case in point what is the status of fishing abalone? Closed to all commercial and recreational fishing in 1990. Science suggests a partial recovery but much unexplained about their demise. They were overfished and poached heavily but has climate change, predation by sea otters or acidification impacted them the most in the past 30 years. Will they ever be harvested again by anything other than sea otters?

 

[gone fishin]

You do understand that a closure on herring could also mean
1. No recreational herring fishery
2. No bait fishery, hence no bait for sports fisherman
3. Add in any other scenario that means closed

If closures happen in todays political climate it usuallly means closed permanently.

Case in point what is the status of fishing abalone? Closed to all commercial and recreational fishing in 1990. Science suggests a partial recovery but much unexplained about their demise. They were overfished and poached heavily but has climate change, predation by sea otters or acidification impacted them the most in the past 30 years. Will they ever be harvested again by anything other than sea otters?

Soundings show low herring numbers in Strait of Georgia​

"You do understand " Redfisher says
What I do understand from your posts is you favor the Commercial over harvest of our herring stocks.
Is your answer to the depressed state of our Herring Stocks, is to just keep fishing them?

 

[Redfisher]

Soundings show low herring numbers in Strait of Georgia​

"You do understand " Redfisher says
What I do understand from your posts is you favor the Commercial over harvest of our herring stocks.
Is your answer to the depressed state of our Herring Stocks, is to just keep fishing them?

May I ask you what is your stand in fishing in general? In reading your posts and applying your logic it seems like a lot of fisheries should be closed.

This is a sports fishing forum by the way.

 

[Admin]

This debate has been had a few times in the Conservation section, and it is time to take it back there if you wish to continue in that vain. This thread was asking where they were spawning this year.

 

[Last_Call]

The world is trying to by Farming Salmon.... Yet folks on this page jump all over trying to shut that down too. Unfortunately none of the Resource problems are going to be solved by stopping another groups harvest.

CR Greg

also, the "Salmon Farmers are here to feed the world argument" really has a massive gaping hole in it. Can you please remind everyone how many pounds of perfectly edible (and sustainable if not overfished) anchovies and other 'bait fish' it takes to create 1 lb of farmed atlantic salmon??

Taking perfectly edible and healthy fish from one part of the world (the poor part) and transporting it and feeding several lbs of it to farmed salmon to create 1 lb of fish for another part of the world (the rich part) is not exactly what I consider solving the world's food crisis.

Yes, ratios have gotten slightly better I get it. Still no where close to enough. Just don't play to the saviour card when you know it's complete BS.

sorry, back to herring.

 

[wildmanyeah]

ROE HERRING INFORMATION BULLETIN: 41

DATE: March 28, 2022

STRAIT OF GEORGIA


FLIGHT PROGRAM
Spawn was observed on March 26-27 on the outside of Gabriola Island approximately 0.5 nm in length; divers are currently assessing. No further flights are planned, though a flight could be initiated if there are reports of spawn.

Total length of spawn observed so far in 2022 in Areas 13-19 is approximately 39 nautical miles.

DIVE PROGRAM
Once Herring have finished laying their eggs, divers return to the area to collect data. After marking out quadrats along transects, divers record information used to calculate the amount of Herring eggs laid in a particular area. DFO charter dive vessel Viking Spirit is currently working in the Gabriola Island area.

FSC HARVEST ACTIVITY
Fishermen are reminded to maintain 100 meter distance and reduce speed while transiting nearby any FSC Herring spawn harvest operations.

COMMERCIAL GILLNET FISHERY
As described in FN0195 the Strait of Georgia roe Herring gillnet fishery opened at 08:30 hrs March 5 and closed for the balance of the season today, March 28 at 12:00 hrs (see FN0318). The validated catch is 3,407 tons of the 6,788.44 ton catch target.

COMMERCIAL SEINE FISHERY
As described in FN0196 the Strait of Georgia roe Herring seine fishery closed at 14:00 hours March 5. Validated catch is 819.719 tons of the 832.571 catch target.

FUTURE BULLETINS
Subsequent bulletins will only be provided if spawn flight data or other new information becomes available.

 

[fishfeatures]

Thanks Wildmanyeah for the update. Good to have the facts.