Where are the herring ?

[Derby]

"will find that everything will be closed" says Redfisher
It is hard to understand this logic which has been posted many times before.
How is it that if we allow the Commercial herring harvest to reduce our herring runs to a fraction of historic levels....
that this will then help us to keep salmon fishing less restricted?
AND I can assure you that I am not a "whiskey driven quarterback" nor are those who support reducing the Herring harvest.

The statement above actually show your total lack of understanding of any or how things are managed or run for that matter and instead of understanding how things are managed. Close it is a feel good justification of making many here feel good because I have done something meanwhile closing anything without a plan has pretty well done nothing period. However it does fit the narrative of the ENGO 's! get the sportfisherman off the water and maybe soon enough that will happen...

 

[CRGreg]

No slight on the commercials, I get that they need to make a living but the world is not the same as it was 50 years ago. We need to adapt or the planet will do it for us.

The world is trying to by Farming Salmon.... Yet folks on this page jump all over trying to shut that down too. Unfortunately none of the Resource problems are going to be solved by stopping another groups harvest.

CR Greg

 

[Old Blue]

The world is trying to by Farming Salmon.... Yet folks on this page jump all over trying to shut that down too. Unfortunately none of the Resource problems are going to be solved by stopping another groups harvest.

CR Greg

They are trying to remove farmed atlantic salmon from migratory salmon areas to land based operations....big difference

 

[Adler]

Looks like a big spawn on right now off Esquimalt Lagoon in Colwood. Water is white, birds and sealions aplenty. Feel like I'm derailing the thread, but answering the original question as I haven't seen it like this at the Lagoon before.

 

[gone fishin]

The statement above actually show your total lack of understanding of any or how things are managed or run for that matter and instead of understanding how things are managed. Close it is a feel good justification of making many here feel good because I have done something meanwhile closing anything without a plan has pretty well done nothing period. However it does fit the narrative of the ENGO 's! get the sportfisherman off the water and maybe soon enough that will happen...

Derby...I understand you are a player in the negations with DFO and chinook closures.....right or wrong?
Either way, it seems from your post you think the best way to stop the non retention of Chinook salmon closure about to start April 1 is to allow the Commercial over harvesting of our herring stocks to continue?
Please keep in mind this thread is about Herring.
Is that the best plan you have to offer.
If you want to expand the discussion to other areas, please open another thread!

 

[SpringVelocity]

Looks like a big spawn on right now off Esquimalt Lagoon in Colwood. Water is white, birds and sealions aplenty. Feel like I'm derailing the thread, but answering the original question as I haven't seen it like this at the Lagoon before.

That's great.

 

[Redfisher]

Derby...I understand you are a player in the negations with DFO and chinook closures.....right or wrong?
Either way, it seems from your post you think the best way to stop the non retention of Chinook salmon closure about to start April 1 is to allow the Commercial over harvesting of our herring stocks to continue?
Please keep in mind this thread is about Herring.
Is that the best plan you have to offer.
If you want to expand the discussion to other areas, please open another thread!

There is no over fishing of herring. I can’t grasp how stuck you are on this. If you catch 10% of not much it’s still dick all.

Applying your logic we shut everything down and then when you actually follow how DFO operates it never opens again.

I believe strongly in using science to manage stocks. The International Halibut Commission (IHC) is a good example of science and industry testing being used to manage a biomass. It has worked well for decades and we as recreational fisherman have an annual healthy fishery thanks to good management.

Herring is a biomass. It needs science and testing to manage. We are not talking about only localized stocks as the majority come from offshore (science part here). Shutting down a tiny fishery in the Gulf of Georgia is not a pressing issue. However if it closes it will likely never open again. The bigger question is why are the patterns of spawn changing? These fish used to spawn all over the Gulf starting right in Ganges Harbour in February.

if one wants to look at closures that are really concerning look at the closure of the aboriginal roe on kelp fishery in Area 7. That almost defies logic but it is where DFO is going when they don’t have good science to help manage. They close fisheries and they never open again.

Concern over DFO fisheries management in general is my concern. Herring stock management in the Gulf (and the start of this thread) shouldn’t operate off public opinion but solid science. I don’t think it exists right now and if herring closes what is next? Hint it rhymes with dishes.

 

[Cookie's Cutter]

The reality is who are we to tell another sector that they cannot fish?

When they are harvesting our oceans for pet food, fertilizer and feed for the dreaded fish farms

 

[Redfisher]

When they are harvesting our oceans for pet food, fertilizer and feed for the dreaded fish farms

You forgot to mention for “roe” which by the way is delicious fried in butter with a bit of soya sauce. It is also one of those renewable resources that employs people harvesting, processing, selling and shipping etc.

 

[gone fishin]

You forgot to mention for “roe” which by the way is delicious fried in butter with a bit of soya sauce. It is also one of those renewable resources that employs people harvesting, processing, selling and shipping etc.

question to Redfisher.
You seem to be well informed on the Herring Roe fishery.
Can you please tell us who consumes the majority of the Herring Roe you speak so highly of?

 

[scott craven]

99% goes to Asia

 

[wildmanyeah]

 

[Bent-Tip]

That was a shame they shut down the roe on kelp fishery in area 7. It’s about as sustainable as fishery can get. Herring are returned to the ocean as soon as they’ve spawned on the kelp. There’s not a lot of mortality involved.

 

[Rain City]

That was a shame they shut down the roe on kelp fishery in area 7. It’s about as sustainable as fishery can get. Herring are returned to the ocean as soon as they’ve spawned on the kelp. There’s not a lot of mortality involved.

Stupid question maybe, but don't the eggs turn into fish? I would really love to learn more about the life cycle of herring and where they travel and live. Where else are these specific fish being caught?

 

[Bent-Tip]

Stupid question maybe, but don't the eggs turn into fish? I would really love to learn more about the life cycle of herring and where they travel and live. Where else are these specific fish being caught?

Yes they would have. Point I’m making is that if we humans are going to consume this particular product, this fishery is as sustainable as you could ask for.

 

[Rain City]

Yes they would have. Point I’m making is that if we humans are going to consume this particular product, this fishery is as sustainable as you could ask for.

I struggle to find that correlation. If someone could show me that "x" amount of fish are impacted by taking roe vs. "y" via another method I could easily agree with you. Is there science to support any of it? Again, I'm not looking to bash it, or shut it down. Just looking to understand it better. What percentage of the total biomass is being harvested? Has that percentage changed over the years? Was that percentage ever proven to be sustainable in other areas? What other factors impact these fish that we can measure? I'd love to hear more than "we've been doing it forever. It's sustainable becuase I said so". When I talk to friends and share things on Social Media I want to be confident that what I'm supporting and defending is backed by facts. I figured this would be a great place to learn more about it.

 

[vicsurfer]

Looks like a big spawn on right now off Esquimalt Lagoon in Colwood. Water is white, birds and sealions aplenty. Feel like I'm derailing the thread, but answering the original question as I haven't seen it like this at the Lagoon before.

I was just down at the lagoon. Albert Head was white and the sea lions were everywhere.

 

[calmsea]

There is nothing whatsoever sustainable about a kill-fishery for roe. It defies every sustainability concept where a species is allowed to reproduce at least once before it can be harvested. To kill herring before spawing to harvest the roe only is such a deplorable waste. A waste of the carcasses and a waste of the roe biomass. For a few people to consume a few spoonful of roe as a delicacy to sacrifice millons of future herrings that would have been the foundation of future herring stock is just plain stupid and endlessly greedy. Same as the sturgeon caviar industry. It is downright criminal.

If a roe fishery needs to be then the spawn on weed concept is a much better way because it leaves the mature herring alive to grow bigger and spawn another year and also contribute to the natural food chain in the ocean. But I question the principle of eating millions of tiny eggs that could develop into something so valuable.

 

[Dogbreath]

Same as the sturgeon caviar industry. It is downright criminal.

One important thing to remember when talking about the situation here in BC-all our Sturgeon Caviar is from farm raised fish the roe is taken from mature females and the meat is sold on the commercial market there is no harvest of wild Sturgeon.

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[Redfisher]

Stupid question maybe, but don't the eggs turn into fish? I would really love to learn more about the life cycle of herring and where they travel and live. Where else are these specific fish being caught?

From San Francisco up to and throughout SE Alaska, in Russia etc

There are a variety of fisheries including roe, food, bait, roe on kelp, roe on hemlock, aquaculture, aquariums, fertilizers etc

If you want some science on herring contact the Pacific Biological Centre in Nanaimo. At one time my dad had a number of their publications on herring back when science was science (not politics).

The stocks were virtually fished out by the early 1960’s due to reduction seining and after about a 10 year closure it reopened as a roe fishery during the early 1970’s in late February through to early April plus some food fishing in November. Stocks continued to rebound and healthy catches occurred all over BC.

Alas apparent overfishing in the 1980’s and 1990’s again mainly by seines damaged many stocks throughout BC. These fisheries were being closely monitored and openings managed by DFO! At least in theory DFO managed as it’s pretty clear they did a poor job in many areas. Now the only commercial fishery left is this little one in the Gulf and I expect it to continue to face challenges not the least of which is to close it all because it sounds like the right thing to do.

That being said as I mentioned earlier there are far bigger issues to be explained about herring stocks all over BC. Why are they not recovering like last time? Perhaps we need to examine kelp and eel grass densities to see if there are “good homes” for the eggs. How’s the water temperature on shore and off shore? Any changes in salinity? Any changes in the predators? How’s survival rates out in the ocean? That’s just that “science thing” again. But what do I know? I’m just a fisherman.