E
EmptiesInTheSwanson
Guest
Couldnt agree more.
What Happened to the Sockeye?
- Thread starter Kisinana
- Start date
Couldnt agree more.
T
The Fish Assassin
Guest
Charlie.. You really know alot about my people don't you? What the hell has the songhees taken except "it up the a-s-s" Everyone of our streams has been decimated, our hunting grounds are now shopping centers, our reserve is now the parliment buildings. Our traditional territory has been totally destroyed and there has been very very little in the way of any compensation. We do have treaty rights however that state that we have the right to hunt and fish as before settlement.
Up here we do not refer to ourselves as "tribes". But rather First Nations, with specific names, like say Qualicum First Nation or Dididaht First Nation for example. So forgive me If I don't keep up on the political correctness on your side of the border, but it is obvious you are just as clueless about the names used up here. Call us whatever you want, the fact still remains that as a treaty band we should be entitled to a portion of the commecial TAC. and 50% sounds better than the 0% we are getting right now!!
As for what I have done...I personnaly have spent time as a Fisheries Officer for one of the Bands up here, I have done stream restoration, fish counting, tagging, I have helped take eggs for brood stock at the hatchery testing for pollutants and pretty much everything else that is needed to aid in the conservation effort of the river I was on. I have run the entire Vancouver Island Sockeye Seine fishery for 4 years, I have sat on the board of HIAB and attended all the salmon meetings for years as well and on and on I could go, Also this forum isn't long enough for me to list everything that my father has done working for the Department of Fisheries for 20+ years. Such as the Guardian program here in BC. So who's the IDIOT here charlie? Sounds to me like you just volunteered for that role. You should refrain from putting your foot in your mouth so much in the future... or not.. I can use a laugh every now and again.
UNKOWN- you might want to read this http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html
This is the Manifesto of the Communist Party 1848. Sound's like you would have fit right in.
Take only what you need.
Charter Tofino
Well-Known Member
Haha and FA does it again. I thought he was banned?
Charlie
Well-Known Member
Down here we refer to "tribes". I quess you can call yourselves whatever you want? But, I think you are a tribe or band, if you prefer, which became part of "First Nations" and the specific names, like say Qualicum First Nation or Dididaht First Nation for example, refers to a "Tribe" or "Band" which has became a member of First Nations and by agreement changed their name to include First Nation. So forgive me, if I don't keep up on the political correctness on your side of the border, as well!
Well Rob Warran, I know some about your people and enough about you! You really need to lose the bitterness. Are you teaching your kids that? And YOU don't know what you are talking about, when it comes to our tribes. If you really want 50% of the TAC, you should go back to selling "firewood" and leave our "TRIBES" out of your bickering, as you really don't have a clue of the difference in the treaties signed. But, I do understand, you are familiar with keeping 50% fairly well!
The Songhees population was estimated to be 8,500 in 1859 but by 1914 had dwindled to less than 200</u>. That seems to be a fairly LARGE NATION!
At the time of the establishment of Fort Victoria by the British in 1843, a Songhees village was situated adjacent to the fort. The village was subsequently moved across Victoria Harbour in what is now the Victoria West neighbourhood. The village was subsequently moved and a reserve established adjacent to what is now the municipality of View Royal.
Sir James Douglas, governor of Vancouver Island negotiated a treaty with the Songhees in 1850.</u> Recently the Songhees considered that the government of British Columbia had failed to honour the 1850 treaty and commenced a legal action against the province and the government of Canada for redress. A settlement of the action was announced in November 2006 by Songhees Chief Robert Sam, the federal Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development Jim Prentice and the provincial Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation, Mike de Jong. Sounds to me your nation signed a treaty and has redressed the treaty! I beleive the Canadian Government is living up to their end of the treaty, why don't you quit bickering and live up to yours?
Their government is the Songhees First Nation, a member of the Te'mexw Treaty Association and the Naut'sa Mawt Tribal Council. Their traditional language is a dialect of the North Straits Salish language. The Te'mexw Treaty Association handles Treaty negotiations in the BC Treaty Process for a number of First Nations located in the northern Strait of Georgia of British Columbia. The members of the association are former signatories of the Douglas Treaties, a group of treaties signed in 1850s.
Anything else you would like to know about YOUR NATION</u>!
NOW I ASK YOU, AGAIN (EXCEPT FOR HAVING A JOB IN WHICH YOU GOT PAID)? WHAT HAVE YOU OR ANY PART OF YOUR TRIBES (NATIONS)DONE, BUT TAKE… WHAT HAVE YOU CONSERVED, ANYTHING?????? I don't see anything listed on your website? http://www.songheesnation.com/
Now let's take a look at what OUR "TRIBES" are doing? Here is their website: http://www.nwifc.org/
The Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission (NWIFC) is a support service organization for 20 treaty Indian tribes in western Washington. Headquartered in Olympia, the NWIFC employs approximately 65 people with satellite offices in Mount Vernon and Forks.
The NWIFC was created following the U.S. v. Washington ruling (Boldt Decision) that re-affirmed the tribes’ treaty-reserved fishing rights and established them as natural resources co-managers with the State of Washington. The commission is composed of representatives from each member tribe who elect a chair, vice chair and treasurer. Commissioners provide direction to the NWIFC executive director, who in turn implements that direction.
The role of the NWIFC is to assist member tribes in their role as natural resources co-managers. The commission provides direct services to tribes in areas such as biometrics, fish health and salmon management to achieve an economy of scale that makes more efficient use of limited federal funding. The NWIFC also provides a forum for tribes to address shared natural resources management issues and enables the tribes to speak with a unified voice in Washington, D.C.
The Tribes that are members are: Hoh Indian Tribe, Jamestown S’Klallam Tribe, Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe, Lummi Nation, Makah Nation, Muckleshoot Tribe, Nisqually Indian Tribe, Nooksack Tribe, Port Gamble S’Klallam, Puyallup Tribe, Quileute Indian Tribe, Quinault Nation, Sauk-Suiattle Tribe, Skokomish Tribe, Squaxin Island Tribe, Stillaguamish Tribe, Suquamish Tribe, Swinomish Tribe, Tulalip Tribes, Upper Skagit Tribe, Confederated Tribes of the Chehalis, Kalispel Tribe of Indians
NO WHERE IS "FIRST NATIONS" LISTED or IMPLIED!
Hmmm... I do agree with you on one thought! Maybe there are some Canadians that should do as you indicated, "Isn't it about time that we accepted the US model", with that I would suggest it be, your First Nations!
Like I said, maybe you should NOT SPOUT OFF, unless you really know what you are talking about!
BTW...
I never even considered the thought of First Nations being a "Communist Party", until your posting this? They sure do fit the profile and you seem to know a lot about it! [:0]
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
Just wondering why this bickering, bitter and antagonistic rip off artist is still allowed to push his drivel on this site?
Nog
Nog
Charlie
Well-Known Member
X3,
but I am still waiting for a reply!
I am not even close to being done... INCLUDING... Let's talk about what the "First Nations", is/or NOT doing? Is that anything about connserving the resources, I don't think so? Anyone want to go there, FA? I WILL GLADLY GO THERE LET'S GO!!!!!!!!
LIKE I SAID... YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE... AND YOU DON'T EVEN WANT TO GO DOWN THIS ROAD!
but I am still waiting for a reply!
I am not even close to being done... INCLUDING... Let's talk about what the "First Nations", is/or NOT doing? Is that anything about connserving the resources, I don't think so? Anyone want to go there, FA? I WILL GLADLY GO THERE LET'S GO!!!!!!!!
LIKE I SAID... YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE... AND YOU DON'T EVEN WANT TO GO DOWN THIS ROAD!
scott craven
Well-Known Member
I doubt you will get one Charlie...
nothing to say usually means defeat.
nothing to say usually means defeat.
salmonkiller01
Well-Known Member
Right on charlie, with all the links you posted it will be a few days before FA has any sort of comeback!!!!!!!!!!!
L
Labman
Guest
You know my feelings on this subject from the other forum
Go get em Charlie![}]
Go get em Charlie![}
]
B
Brisco
Guest
Thanks Charlie.
Lets just get back to saving fish and a way of life for both FN and the rest of us. If EVERYONE had the same passion about saving fish as they do about catching them, there would be nothing to bicker about! I do agree that as much as I sympathize with the treatment of FN peoples in the past...it is time for the present generations to stop living day to day as victims. Let your leaders sort out treaty negotiations, the rest should move on and enjoy their lives in one of the best places in the world to live!
Summer Steel
Member
quote:Originally posted by Charlie
Down here we refer to "tribes". I quess you can call yourselves whatever you want? But, I think you are a tribe or band, if you prefer, which became part of "First Nations" and the specific names, like say Qualicum First Nation or Dididaht First Nation for example, refers to a "Tribe" or "Band" which has became a member of First Nations and by agreement changed their name to include First Nation. So forgive me, if I don't keep up on the political correctness on your side of the border, as well!
Well Rob Warran, I know some about your people and enough about you! You really need to lose the bitterness. Are you teaching your kids that? And YOU don't know what you are talking about, when it comes to our tribes. If you really want 50% of the TAC, you should go back to selling "firewood" and leave our "TRIBES" out of your bickering, as you really don't have a clue of the difference in the treaties signed. But, I do understand, you are familiar with keeping 50% fairly well!
The Songhees population was estimated to be 8,500 in 1859 but by 1914 had dwindled to less than 200</u>. That seems to be a fairly LARGE NATION!
At the time of the establishment of Fort Victoria by the British in 1843, a Songhees village was situated adjacent to the fort. The village was subsequently moved across Victoria Harbour in what is now the Victoria West neighbourhood. The village was subsequently moved and a reserve established adjacent to what is now the municipality of View Royal.
Sir James Douglas, governor of Vancouver Island negotiated a treaty with the Songhees in 1850.</u> Recently the Songhees considered that the government of British Columbia had failed to honour the 1850 treaty and commenced a legal action against the province and the government of Canada for redress. A settlement of the action was announced in November 2006 by Songhees Chief Robert Sam, the federal Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development Jim Prentice and the provincial Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation, Mike de Jong. Sounds to me your nation signed a treaty and has redressed the treaty! I beleive the Canadian Government is living up to their end of the treaty, why don't you quit bickering and live up to yours?
Their government is the Songhees First Nation, a member of the Te'mexw Treaty Association and the Naut'sa Mawt Tribal Council. Their traditional language is a dialect of the North Straits Salish language. The Te'mexw Treaty Association handles Treaty negotiations in the BC Treaty Process for a number of First Nations located in the northern Strait of Georgia of British Columbia. The members of the association are former signatories of the Douglas Treaties, a group of treaties signed in 1850s.
Anything else you would like to know about YOUR NATION</u>!
NOW I ASK YOU, AGAIN (EXCEPT FOR HAVING A JOB IN WHICH YOU GOT PAID)? WHAT HAVE YOU OR ANY PART OF YOUR TRIBES (NATIONS)DONE, BUT TAKE… WHAT HAVE YOU CONSERVED, ANYTHING?????? I don't see anything listed on your website? http://www.songheesnation.com/
Now let's take a look at what OUR "TRIBES" are doing? Here is their website: http://www.nwifc.org/
The Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission (NWIFC) is a support service organization for 20 treaty Indian tribes in western Washington. Headquartered in Olympia, the NWIFC employs approximately 65 people with satellite offices in Mount Vernon and Forks.
The NWIFC was created following the U.S. v. Washington ruling (Boldt Decision) that re-affirmed the tribes’ treaty-reserved fishing rights and established them as natural resources co-managers with the State of Washington. The commission is composed of representatives from each member tribe who elect a chair, vice chair and treasurer. Commissioners provide direction to the NWIFC executive director, who in turn implements that direction.
The role of the NWIFC is to assist member tribes in their role as natural resources co-managers. The commission provides direct services to tribes in areas such as biometrics, fish health and salmon management to achieve an economy of scale that makes more efficient use of limited federal funding. The NWIFC also provides a forum for tribes to address shared natural resources management issues and enables the tribes to speak with a unified voice in Washington, D.C.
The Tribes that are members are: Hoh Indian Tribe, Jamestown S’Klallam Tribe, Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe, Lummi Nation, Makah Nation, Muckleshoot Tribe, Nisqually Indian Tribe, Nooksack Tribe, Port Gamble S’Klallam, Puyallup Tribe, Quileute Indian Tribe, Quinault Nation, Sauk-Suiattle Tribe, Skokomish Tribe, Squaxin Island Tribe, Stillaguamish Tribe, Suquamish Tribe, Swinomish Tribe, Tulalip Tribes, Upper Skagit Tribe, Confederated Tribes of the Chehalis, Kalispel Tribe of Indians
NO WHERE IS "FIRST NATIONS" LISTED or IMPLIED!
Hmmm... I do agree with you on one thought! Maybe there are some Canadians that should do as you indicated, "Isn't it about time that we accepted the US model", with that I would suggest it be, your First Nations!
Like I said, maybe you should NOT SPOUT OFF, unless you really know what you are talking about!
BTW...
I never even considered the thought of First Nations being a "Communist Party", until your posting this? They sure do fit the profile and you seem to know a lot about it! [:0]
Holy cow FA, you just got worked bad. Maybe your band should hire Charlie to be its official historian
T
The Fish Assassin
Guest
No he left out too many details.. I'll do some more conservation work this week, I'll throw back all the pinks I catch for you!
Take only what you need.
Take only what you need.
Don't you have a One for Two deal on firewood right now, FA? And good on you for having worked for DFO so long - that really helped conservation of the salmon stocks as we all know. They are thriving so plentiful that there is only one title of achievement: Wonderful Resource Management! [xx(]
Barnacle Bill
Well-Known Member
Watched a FN seine boat food fishing for Sockeye in Deep water Bay one year. Was a real eye opener on how they food fish! When they pulled the purse on board, they sorted the pinks from the sockeye by kicking the pinks off the back of the boat. Since then have little respect for FN food fishing and even less for DFO for not doing anything as they watched all this going on. Why anyone pays any attion to FA is beyond me! Tight Lines,...........BB
Charlie
Well-Known Member
This is probably the "best" post on this thread!
So, you really want me to include more details? Like I said, do you really want to go down this road?
Let's start with: You haven't seen a "sockeye" in three years? Maybe it has something to do with the 2006 settlement with BC? After your "band's" share of the 31.5 million</u>, they probably don't need to fish anymore? Let alone the other settlements your "band" has gained?
The Songhees or Songish, also known as the Lekwungen or Lekungen, are an indigenous North American Coast Salish people who reside on southeastern Vancouver Island, British Columbia in the Greater Victoria area. There is evidence of a fortified village existing at Finlayson Point in Beacon Hill Park prior to the arrival of Europeans in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. The Songhees' traditional foods included salmon, shellfish, whale, deer, duck, berries, camas root and herbs. The Coast Salish traditionally lived in bighouses.
Now known as: Songhees First Nation
Location: On Esquimalt Harbour, in Victoria. Main community is on New Songhees Indian Reserve #1A. (Three reserves on 137.8 hectares.)
Number of Band Members: 473 ( Note: WOW, divide the moneys paid your "band" in the following settlements, that just paid for your new Boston Whaler, didn't it?) (Source: Registered Indian Population by S ex and Residence May 2007, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada)
Songhees First Nation, a member of The Te'mexw Treaty Association (TTA), entered the treaty process in July 1995, and is in Stage 4 of the six-stage process, negotiating an agreement in principle.
TTA members are a party to the Douglas Treaties, a series of 14 land purchases from aboriginal people around Victoria, Saanich, Sooke, Nanaimo and Port Hardy, made between 1850 and 1854, by James Douglas, chief factor of Fort Victoria and governor of the colony of Vancouver Island. While the Douglas Treaties addressed land and harvesting rights, the modern comprehensive treaty currently being negotiated between Canada, BC and TTA, deals with a wide range of issues that include governance, land, resources and fiscal matters. TTA negotiations are making steady progress and have successfully resolved a number of difficult issues.
In March 2007, The Songhees and Esquimalt First Nations memberships ratified by a large margin a settlement that resolves a reserve-based specific claim on the site of the British Columbia Legislature in Victoria. The settlement, which was initialed by Canada, BC and the First Nations in November 2006, relates to a lawsuit filed in 2001 which alleged that Canada and British Columbia breached certain duties owed to the First Nations. The claim alleged that the land was originally set aside as an Indian reserve in 1854 by Governor James Douglas, who then took it back for the site of the Legislature without obtaining a surrender of the reserve. The First Nations are now awaiting ratification by the Government of Canada so the agreement can come into effect. Once ratified, the Songhees and Esquimalt First Nations will equally share a financial settlement of $31.5 million and can purchase land out of the settlement funds</u>.
In May 2006, Songhees First Nation received a $341,800 major capital grant from the provincial government </u> to create 33 new quality child care spaces for Aboriginal families. The funding was also used for the construction of an addition to an existing child care centre.
In November 2005, Songhees First Nation and the Government of Canada signed a Settlement Agreement respecting a specific claim of 1.13 acres of land. The agreement includes the land and $1,240,000 in compensation. </u>
In July 2005, Songhees and Esquimalt Nations and several off-reserve aboriginal groups signed an education enhancement agreement with the Province to improve aboriginal student achievement, and increase awareness of aboriginal languages and culture in the Victoria School District.
Reference: http://www.gov.bc.ca/arr/firstnation/temexw/default.html
Do YOU want more details about YOUR "band"? If so, let me know... Or, do you want to go with the difference in the wording of the treaties"
The treaty signed by "your" band states (in general): "It is understood, however, that the land itself, with these small exceptions, becomes the entire property of the white people forever; it is also understood that we are at liberty to hunt over the unoccupied lands, and to carry on our fisheries as formerly."</u>
The treaty "our" tribes signed state: "The right of taking fish, at all usual and accustomed grounds and stations, is further secured to said Indians in common with all citizens of the Territory</u>."
To interpret this article of "our" treaties, United States District Court Judge Boldt looked at the minutes of the treaty negotiations to determine the meaning of "in common with" as the United States described it to the Tribes,</u> and determined that the United States intended for there to be an equal sharing of the fish resource between the Tribes and the settlers.
Your treaties DO NOT </u> state "in common with all citizens of the Territory", rather it states ,"and to carry on fisheries as formerly"… there is a difference there, just in case you missed it!
Now if you want more... I will be happy to oblige, but don't tell me how your band has taken it in the a.s.s., but rather tell me how you and your band, have "taken everything you can get"! If you do want to go farther, then we will be getting into the "First Nations" current treaty negotiations and the fact they are going after "complete control of the entire BC fishery" and the fact they want 50% of the TAC, immediately... You want to go there, I will glady go there, but if you do, you might want to talk to your chief first!
Not bad, for someone who knows nothing, is it!
I will finish with "profishers" comment, "Let your leaders sort out treaty negotiations, the rest should move on and enjoy their lives in one of the best places in the world to live!" You do live in one of the "best places in the world", you should stop your bickering and sarcasm and enjoy it... and that new boat of yours, which the BC taxpayers very well could have paid for through the above settlements?
Or, if YOU do want to go farther down this road? LET"S GO, I'll go there! Do you want to talk about "treaties", "Salmon", "the Fishery", "the lact of Conservation by the First Nation" and "your band", or "First Nation's" real agenda? I do have A LOT more if you really want to take this route! Just tell me where "YOU" want to go! [:0]
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