'Warm blob' of water in Pacific Ocean could hurt salmon

[OldBlackDog]

The reason for cut and paste is simply because there is no one here who is a specialist or expert.
there are lots who think they are, yet they are proven not to be.
Therefore the use of cut and paste to provide a point.

Example is the blob is NOT caused by global warming!
Science has said so but if I say so it means nothing unless I can show it via cut and paste as I am not a scientist.

This also applies to people who want to disagree as they also are not scientists.

What is interesting is how LITTLE we really know about things.
They are just now learning about the oceans and what is happening.

 

[Whole in the Water]

The reason for cut and paste is simply because there is no one here who is a specialist or expert.
there are lots who think they are, yet they are proven not to be.
Therefore the use of cut and paste to provide a point.

Example is the blob is NOT caused by global warming!
Science has said so but if I say so it means nothing unless I can show it via cut and paste as I am not a scientist.

This also applies to people who want to disagree as they also are not scientists.

What is interesting is how LITTLE we really know about things.
They are just now learning about the oceans and what is happening.

Not sure what your point is OBD? As we all know one does not need to be a scientist to be informed, knowledgeable and to be able to provide factual information to back up their point of view. That is why these anonymous forums exist to exchange opinions, ideas and information.

I would think that scientists for the most part don't partake in forums such as these as they are too busy doing research and presenting their findings in formal forums such as peer reviewed publications and conferences, etc. On a forum like this who cares if you are a scientist are not.

Lastly, I think I am not alone on this forum when I say there is nothing wrong with cut and paste info, as it goes beyond simply stating your opinion/position (like azzholes, everybody has one) by providing background information as to why you have the position you do, that is quick and easy for others to access. Nothing wrong with that, especially since many times the link to the full article or source is provided for others to read and evaluate for themselves.

I think that most on this forum are wise enough to realize that there are usually at least two sides to every issue and that to make an informed opinion you need to look at both sides of the argument. That is why I say cut and paste away, I will read both sides, maybe do some more research on my own and then make my own opinion in time. My 2 bits.

 

[GLG]

The reason for cut and paste is simply because there is no one here who is a specialist or expert.
there are lots who think they are, yet they are proven not to be.
Therefore the use of cut and paste to provide a point.

Example is the blob is NOT caused by global warming!
Science has said so but if I say so it means nothing unless I can show it via cut and paste as I am not a scientist.

This also applies to people who want to disagree as they also are not scientists.

What is interesting is how LITTLE we really know about things.
They are just now learning about the oceans and what is happening.

Well let's follow your logic.....

We will never know where babies come from because were not doctors.
We can never trust math, because we are not mathematicians.
Science is hard, so best not to trust it.

It's interesting how little you think we know.

Global Warming” is matter of religious belief and has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with Science.

It would be great if you could keep your posts on topic and not go off into the field of science fiction. This tread is for the Blob and it's effect on Salmon not for your pet theory of a AGW hoax.

 

[triplenickel]

You last 2 posters missed the mark by so far it's hilarious. Thanks for the laughs. Lol

WITW his explanation for the long cut and pastes was a reply to the thread above the one you quoted as well as calls from a few other members for cliff notes as they didn't want to read it all.
GLG just missed the point as per normal.

 

[Whole in the Water]

You last 2 posters missed the mark by so far it's hilarious. Thanks for the laughs. Lol

WITW his explanation for the long cut and pastes was a reply to the thread above the one you quoted as well as calls from a few other members for cliff notes as they didn't want to read it all.
GLG just missed the point as per normal.

Gee I don't know if you are qualified enough to comment on my post 3x5, unless you establish your credentials first and I then decide that they are good enough! ... LOL

 

[GLG]

You last 2 posters missed the mark by so far it's hilarious. Thanks for the laughs. Lol

WITW his explanation for the long cut and pastes was a reply to the thread above the one you quoted as well as calls from a few other members for cliff notes as they didn't want to read it all.
GLG just missed the point as per normal.

Trying to keep this thread on topic. If you want to take a pot shot at me then use PM, I'll reply. If you have anything to contribute to how the Blob effects salmon then speak up. Other then that perhaps start a new thread and I'll reply to you. You could start a thread on LNG and how wonderful it is.

 

[triplenickel]

I could do a PM but it wasn't a pot shot, just trying to help you get back on track and let you know you missed the point he was making, just trying to help you out. I don't need to champion NG or LNG more and more people are figuring it out everyday, even you've started to figure out the whole picture. Remember a couple weeks back when you posted this?

I'm for Nat Gas to replace coal fired electric plants as a transition to clean energy as long as there is a transition plan to do so.
I'm also in favor of projects that pump CO2 back into the ground that the NG industry has here in BC but that's something that should be paid for by industry and there customers, not taxpayers. I'm all so interested in CNG / LNG for transportation

Heck it was only a couple months ago you called CCS a "mugs game", glad to see you coming around to the realities of the demands of our society and the compromises it's actually prepared to accept. Soon you won't be waiting for the UN to tell us to help supply the parts of the world not blessed with the resource!

OK on track; warm blob = short term negative localized impact on salmon. Salmon will move to seek colder water, Alaska gets BC fish, we get Southern fish. Now back to debating whether the chicken or the egg came first, does the water warm the air or air warm the water............................I have my own theory based on simple thermal mass ideas but nothing to cut and paste that will convince anyone of anything. Currently we have lots of C&P from "experts" claiming both to be true. I'm a lot more worried about the Cali drought than my salmon season this year though.

 

[GLG]

3x5
I'll ask nicely one more time.....
You want to talk about LNG then please start a new thread.
I'll be happy to restate my position and answer your points.
Because, clearly you don't understand my position.
This is not the right thread and the term hijack comes to mind.

 

[GLG]

Now back to debating whether the chicken or the egg came first, does the water warm the air or air warm the water............................I have my own theory based on simple thermal mass ideas but nothing to cut and paste that will convince anyone of anything.

Sounds interesting but don't be breaking any laws of thermodynamics now....
Does the water warm the air or the other way around?
Well I'm not sure that's the right question.
Heat flows from hot to cold until they both reach equilibrium then the flow stops.
It does not mater what the objects are (mass) it's more a function of time.
It's the reason why when you leave a hot coffee over night in the morning it is room temp. Conversely when you leave a glass of ice water overnight its also room temp in the morning. The heat flows either out of the coffee into the air or into the ice water from the air in the room. Now when your dealing with the ocean and the air it depends on the 2 temperatures.

The blob is just a temperature anomaly or you might say warmer then normal for this time of year. The thing is that it's huge. There must be vast amounts of heat there and at some point it will try to reach equilibrium and the question is, will it go deep into the ocean or come out into the air. I guess we will see.

So far we are seeing some returns of salmon and that's a good sign but I'm waiting for DFO's salmon outlook as that will give us a better picture. Snow pack here on the south coast is terrible so we better get some rain or we will be in trouble like CA. come late summer when the salmon are ready to spawn. Smolts leaving now do better when water temps are cooler. So we will see what happens in a few years when they return.

 

[agentaqua]

OK on track; warm blob = short term negative localized impact on salmon. Salmon will move to seek colder water, Alaska gets BC fish, we get Southern fish...

You're missing the point 3x5. It's not a shell game. If "we" get "Southern Fish" - it means - NO FISH - at least for this outmigrating year that has to deal with the blob and the implications around food quantity, quality - and predators.

 

[OldBlackDog]

Please advise where you got this information?

You're missing the point 3x5. It's not a shell game. If "we" get "Southern Fish" - it means - NO FISH - at least for this outmigrating year that has to deal with the blob and the implications around food quantity, quality - and predators.

 

[agentaqua]

Please advise where you got this information?

In that last monster of a thread - which I am loathe to go back to and begin another endless thread on the potential and realized impacts of climate change - there are MANY numerous peer-reviewed articles I posted (and others) on what warming sea surface and FW lentic/lotic systems temperatures means to fish species - including salmon. It means a shift of range. California is slowly loosing it's salmon due to this - Arctic Canada is seeing pink salmon there now - the 1st time in known human history. Pacific salmon may make it to the Atlantic at some point in time. Any sea surface temperatures over approximately 7 degrees C is too warm for the cold-water food items for subadult and adult salmon - whether or not it is the blob or global warming causing this.

 

[triplenickel]

You're missing the point 3x5. It's not a shell game. If "we" get "Southern Fish" - it means - NO FISH - at least for this outmigrating year that has to deal with the blob and the implications around food quantity, quality - and predators.

Really, no fish?

 

[agentaqua]

Really, no fish?

no -as I said - for this year's outmigrating juvenile salmon - if the temperatures exceed something like 7C for an extended period. The ocean survival rates drop to near zero. You need ocean survival rates to meet or exceed some 2-3% just to maintain a population, more like 5-7% in order for that run to thrive.

 

[OldBlackDog]

Since our DFO does not do this, look at what Oregon says.
http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/research/divisions/fe/estuarine/oeip/g-forecast.cfm

no -as I said - for this year's outmigrating juvenile salmon - if the temperatures exceed something like 7C for an extended period. The ocean survival rates drop to near zero. You need ocean survival rates to meet or exceed some 2-3% just to maintain a population, more like 5-7% in order for that run to thrive.

 

[GLG]

Since our DFO does not do this, look at what Oregon says.
http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/research/divisions/fe/estuarine/oeip/g-forecast.cfm

Or you could read my post #53 and get the DFO's preliminary 2015 Salmon Outlook.
Here is a link to it if that is more convenient.
http://www.sportfishing.bc.ca/docs/dfo_preliminary_2015_salmon_outlook_-_2014.pdf

Now to say DFO doesn't do that is not true. I have read many salmon outlooks over the years and yes OBD when I get my copy I will send it out, you are after all on my mail list. If others want a copy here is the website that you can go to get one. Interesting how DFO say they have been doing this since 2002. Kind of makes it look like someone forgot.....
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/...lmon_outlook-perspective_saumon-2015-eng.html

 

[OldBlackDog]

If you look at this one from Oregon you will note it is much more than DFO has ever put out.
It is out on the web and is available to all now.

It explains the blob and their thoughts on this, the food available etc.
Mabey DFO should ask them about the blob as they do not seem to know?

Read it first before saying DFO provides this information.

Dfo is not close to providing this information.

DFO should have had their report out months ago.

The SFAB main board should have asked them what is going on.
The answer would be we have no one to do it, sad.

Or you could read my post #53 and get the DFO's preliminary 2015 Salmon Outlook.
Here is a link to it if that is more convenient.
http://www.sportfishing.bc.ca/docs/dfo_preliminary_2015_salmon_outlook_-_2014.pdf

Now to say DFO doesn't do that is not true. I have read many salmon outlooks over the years and yes OBD when I get my copy I will send it out, you are after all on my mail list. If others want a copy here is the website that you can go to get one. Interesting how DFO say they have been doing this since 2002. Kind of makes it look like someone forgot.....
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/...lmon_outlook-perspective_saumon-2015-eng.html

 

[OldBlackDog]

I call ******** on this.
You say it could kill ALL.
So show us the science on this.

no -as I said - for this year's outmigrating juvenile salmon - if the temperatures exceed something like 7C for an extended period. The ocean survival rates drop to near zero. You need ocean survival rates to meet or exceed some 2-3% just to maintain a population, more like 5-7% in order for that run to thrive.

 

[GLG]

If you look at this one from Oregon you will note it is much more than DFO has ever put out.
It is out on the web and is available to all now.

It explains the blob and their thoughts on this, the food available etc.
Mabey DFO should ask them about the blob as they do not seem to know?

Read it first before saying DFO provides this information.

Dfo is not close to providing this information.

DFO should have had their report out months ago.

The SFAB main board should have asked them what is going on.
The answer would be we have no one to do it, sad.

Read the minutes from south coast. I don't recall what questions from Alaska are. (Edit: read main board minutes)
You are correct that this should have been out months ago in fact I was prepared for it on the last SFAC agenda.

You want to know whats behind all this.......
I can only guess but it may have something to do with this fact.
http://scienceblogs.com/confessions...gerated-devastating-chronological-indictment/

You see the focus is elsewhere and that my friend is for your benefit, not mine.
Funny how that can bite you in the butt.

Starting to see a pattern yet?

 

[OldBlackDog]

I see see you are assuming.
Assuming that I think there should not be more science?
what I think is DFO is NOT DOING THE JOB.

I see that Oregon has done theirs and done a better job than I have seen from DFO.

i think DFO needs more people to do the job or a better person to set prioritys.

So, did you read the report from Oregon?

Read the minutes from south coast. I don't recall what questions from Alaska are. (Edit: read main board minutes)
You are correct that this should have been out months ago in fact I was prepared for it on the last SFAC agenda.

You want to know whats behind all this.......
I can only guess but it may have something to do with this fact.
http://scienceblogs.com/confessions...gerated-devastating-chronological-indictment/

You see the focus is elsewhere and that my friend is for your benefit, not mine.
Funny how that can bite you in the butt.

Starting to see a pattern yet?