Trolling without a downrigger: tackle help

[Focus]

New member here, have been lurking for a while.

I have periodic access to a boat for salmon fishing in Vancouver Harbour and Howe Sound. There is no downrigger aboard, and I am usually alone. I was around the Bell Buoy on Monday and was very frustrated to watch many boats around me landing fish while I went without so much as a bite.

Here is the gear that I was using on Monday, all towed behind a diving plane:

I was running approximately 80' of line out, but the plane only seemed to be diving at no more than a 30 degree angle, so figure that my depth was around 25-40ft (it varied due to current and boat direction).

I don't even know if I connected the flasher with the correct end leading (if there is a difference).

Hope some of the experienced people can share some input.

Thanks!

 

[Focus]

Also, here are the other flashers that I found in my grandfather's tacklebox:

I don't have a specifically targeted species. I'd be happy with any salmon! I will have a few opportunities off the mouth of the Cap in later Sept for coho, and I hope to head out this coming weekend to try for some of the last Fraser sockeye and pinks.

 

[trendsetter]

You need a slip weight ahead of the flasher, use 8oz or 10oz. That's all you need. Slip weight, 3 feet of line then the flasher then 18 inches of line then a pink hoochie (the squid lures). The smaller the hoochie the better and pink or red will work best.

Pull out about 40 feet of line for Pink salmon and 55-60 feet for sockeye. I've caught many pinks this year and even an 8lb coho without a downrigger. But you need a slip weight.

Forget about the spoons if you are going for sockeye which are the main target in english bay right now.

Edit: Scratch that, I meant 40 pulls or 55-60 pulls of line which probably translates to 1.5 feet per pull so 60 feet for pinks and 90 feet for sockeye.

 

[trendsetter]

This is the type of weight you need.

 

[Dogbreath]

Used to fish the same area with one downrigger and a planer on the other side-the planer would turn on and off for no particular reason that we could ever determine-it was very iffy.

You're doing everything right the gear is fine but without a downrigger you'll forever be sucking hind teat- hard words but true.

Those slip weights are fine too but again you'll have all kinds of line out behind the boat and unless you fish away from the pack can expect to get cut off on occasion.

The three smaller/broader metal flashers are actually Dodgers-they sway side to side/don't go around in a circle and are used often for bait/are fine with spoons but not so much for hootchies.

 

[Time]

Good advice from Trendsetter, but set your slipweight about 15 feet ahead of the flasher.
If it is too close to the flasher it will dampen and impede the action of the flasher.
12 ounces is a good weight too.

Watch your rod tip for determining the correct trolling speed.
You want to see it "throbbing", not bouncing.

 

[Rockfish]

Those trip weights even the 16 oz don't have sufficent weight to do the job for many applications. Before downriggers were common a lot of big chinook were caught off Sooke on 2lb balls hung on a short hang line from a swivel about 60ft back on the main line. There is a bent metel rod (you use to be able to buy these but you can even use a fish hook bent over but still open) which hangs on the swivel attached to the hang line and your partner lifts off the weight when it is close to the boat. The swivel then goes through the rod eyes. The most common depth was about 65 18 inch pulls or 65 turns on a large wood Peetz). I have to say that dragging in that two pound ball does take away from the experience but on the other hand it does help keep some pressure on the fish and less slack means less loss fish for beginners. There are times when I have seen this set up out fish a manual rigger on the other side, possibly because it gets the lure a lot father away from the boat.

If you fish areas like Sooke remember that most use riggers and they are expecting your lines to be under your boat or close to it, not away out back. You have to try and avoid them crossing behind you and snaging your gear as they may not notice you don't have riggers - or fish away from the crowd.

 

[Charlie]

The three on the left are Abe & Al flashers. They happen to have been the most popular flasher used, until the "Hotspot" was introduced. Appears those two on the left are #002 (13 1/2 inches long). They are designed for trolling deeper. You need to troll Abe & Als just fast enough to complete a full 360 degree rotation. When you get to the right speed your rod tip will have a steady throb-throb-pause, throb-throb-pause. It is important to speed up or slow down until you have that throb-throb-pause on that rod tip!

The dodgers on the right are designed for a side to side action. You do NOT want to troll them as fast as the Abe & Al; in fact, think more in the line of motor mootching.

You certainly can use weights as mentioned. I personally don't like using weights. I have used many divers and have to ask - What type of diver is being used? I have had much sucess with a "Deep Six" diver! If you are using any diver the longer the leaders, the better.

Many years ago (your Grandfather's timeframe) those very same flashers, dodgers, and a "Deep Six" (along with a cut plug herring) was just about all I ever had and used. FYI... I caught fish! They worked then and they will work now. Work on that trolling speed and depth.

I personally would invest in a manual downrigger? If the boat has a rod holder you can buy a "temporary" mount that very easily slips in and out of a rod holder. They also make mounts that fit on bow rails. I have used all in the past and well worth the small investment!

If you stick with the diver, here is an article that might help understanding how the different divers work?
http://www.michigansportsman.com/Tips_n_Trix/Diverolgy101.html

"Take the time when fishing is slow to sneak into shallower water and hit bottom with the divers you're using and record depths and dial settings with rings and no rings for best placement."

 

[Focus]

Thanks for all the replies.

I guess when I head out next I'll try one of the dodgers and a heavy slip weight on one line, and I'll continue to try to used the flasher behind the diver. The diver that I'm using is indeed a Deep Six.

For sockeye now it sounds like I should switch to some smaller pinkish hoochies? Another trip to the tackle store for me!

 

[Sharphooks]

Hey, I know a guy in Alaska who really beats up on springs with a "poor man's" downrigger--- he uses parachute chord and an 8 lb lead ball cleated off to the stern of his sailboat. I call it the smart man's downrigger because you can combine exercise with your meat harvesting. Wear a set of gloves and you're all set to haul her in.

The nice part about springs, coho and pinks: they usually travel shallow. I wouldn't want to haul up a ball hand over hand much past 70 ft ---what's nice is you'll rarely have to do that, so there you go

 

[Seafever]

The one I like is the Tom Mack dodger in the middle of the picture (all chrome with the big dimples in it).

Flashers and skipper flashers and dodgers are all great in and of themselves but you could go with a smaller 8" Hotspot flasher.

Less drag.

Those skipper flashers can be bent to add action or decrease action.

But you don't necessarily need a flasher or dodger at all.

I've ran spoons about 8ft behind a trolling weight (usually 4 to 8 ounces) with good results.

These trolling weights do not look like slip weights nor do they slip.

They are more streamlined to go through the water better and they have a clip and swivel at each end.

You just leave them on there and wind your fish in.

I've had tons of hits running no flasher at all.

Planers work for some guys....others have never caught anything on them.


Slip weights can be the biggest pain in the butt....beacuse they are always slipping when you don't want them too.
Some guys put an extra loop up front so they won't slip....but then you don't have a slip weight and you have to stop
and unhook the extra twist right in the middle of a "wind-in" which is not good.

 

[Focus]

How do I tell which end of these flashers and dodgers is supposed to go first? On some of them the profile isn't the same front-to-back

 

[J-GLOBAL]

The end with the Swiver only goes toward the rod.
The end with the clip goes toward the lure.
Unless it has been moved....

How do I tell which end of these flashers and dodgers is supposed to go first? On some of them the profile isn't the same front-to-back