Transport Canada Boat Certification

[IronNoggin]

Nog 100% sure your boat is under 5 gross ton period.

As I am poised to put a bloody liferaft on the rig, and As I am poised to challenge the Limited Masters 60 T (as they will not recognize a 300 T Masters when it is US) I am STRONGLY suggesting we chat in the very next SHORT little while!

You know the number. Please USE it!

Cheers & THANKS!
Nog

 

[SerengetiGuide]

I calculated the GT of the 28 grady to be 5.15GT according to the specs on grady's website. The 28 is gonna be close...could probably get away with not having to do that Nog...the 30fter is DEFINITELY over 5GT though as it has virtually same specs as our Pursuit...so unless I did all that for nothing...but did a lot of research and talking to TC before that.

 

[beemer]

Beemer in the two years I was there we did well over 30 DOT inspections including stability tests and required upgrades. Plus was involved with a number of boats built for commercial guides and eco tours. Check there website there lease crew boats up to 32' are under 5 gross ton and they fall under the exact same DOT rules. I think I might just know what Im talking about. Nog 100% sure your boat is under 5 gross ton period.

Cheers

Sorry myescape , wasn't questioning your knowledge , but the TC gross tonnage calculations that came out last year has been causing a lot of small commercial operators a lot of grief. They seem to differ from traditional calculations. let us know how it goes IronNoggin.

beemer

 

[profisher]

I would like to know how anyone can measure cubic volume from a chair in front of a computer and never stepped foot in the boat being measured. You can't blanket every 28 foot as under or over 5 gross tons. A completely open 30 foot rib will measure lower than a 26 footer with more cabin than deck space. Open deck space isn't counted in the measurement of cubic volume of the vessel. I would suggest that the TC generic tables are a general guide as to where a vessel may fall but are not to be used in a final determination. You have to have it properly calculated for each vessel.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

TC has their formula for doing things online...there are different coefficients you use for different types of boats to find the approx. final gross tonnage

 

[IronNoggin]

Thanks to all the contradicting advice, I am as about as confused as I ever have been just now!

Setting up the 60T challenge anyway, can't hurt to have it I guess. And having an experienced Man actually do the physical measurements on the boat and determine it's actual Tonnage Rating. Should know shortly now...

Man, all I want to do is run a nice sport rig. This being regulated to death approach from TC has me more than a little ticked at them!

Cheers,
Nog

 

[SerengetiGuide]

It's bogus...whats the difference between your boat and a 26fter...not all that much really. I personally think SVOP is more than enough for any boat up to 10-12GT, the LM is almost all aimed at commercial fishing vessels and tugs...most of it is fairly inefficient for any boat that gets up on plane and goes quicker than 10kts Although learned a bit should my electronics ever go out, so that's good, but know the area I fish pretty well anyway...none the less...it's overkill

 

[MyEscape]

Here's The Facts About Gross Tonnage!!!!

Gross Tonage Formula Direct From Transport Canada Inspector In Nanaimo

These are the facts just wanted to double check with them before I posted it

Length (Not including removable items ie. swim grid or anchor pulpit) - TIMES
Width - TIMES
Depth (Gunnel to lowest part of hull) TIMES
.16 = Gross Tonnage

L X W X D X 0.16 = GT

The other way was called the tabular method which is not the way to do it period.

Also new Transport Canada Law 2010 any commercial vessel over 27' 10" will soon be required (grace period tba) to carry a life raft even if its UNDER 5 Gross Ton

Anyone with questions feel free to call a very helpful Inspector ......John @ Transport Canada Nanaimo 250-754-0317

This information site was suppose to be up April 1 to answer all question with regards to licensing but do to election has been put on hold.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/marinesafety/SmallVesselComplianceProgSlide.pdf

Cheers

 

[IronNoggin]

Many Thanks for that Kev! Very much Appreciated!

Have fired off this equation to the mechanic on-site, and now awaiting the findings (with ALL fingers and toes crossed that is!!)

Cheers & Thanks!
Matt

 

[beemer]

Gross Tonage Formula Direct From Transport Canada Inspector In Nanaimo

These are the facts just wanted to double check with them before I posted it

Length (Not including removable items ie. swim grid or anchor pulpit) - TIMES
Width - TIMES
Depth (Gunnel to lowest part of hull) TIMES
.16 = Gross Tonnage

L X W X D X 0.16 = GT

The other way was called the tabular method which is not the way to do it period.

Also new Transport Canada Law 2010 any commercial vessel over 27' 10" will soon be required (grace period tba) to carry a life raft even if its UNDER 5 Gross Ton

Anyone with questions feel free to call a very helpful Inspector ......John @ Transport Canada Nanaimo 250-754-0317

This information site was suppose to be up April 1 to answer all question with regards to licensing but do to election has been put on hold.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/marinesafety/SmallVesselComplianceProgSlide.pdf

Cheers

This is the formula that I was referring to myescape. This is not a true calculation of tonnage in the traditional sense as profisher pointed out. How can my 24 foot OPEN zodiac come in at 4.7 gt ? it did according to this bogus calculation.

beemer

 

[IronNoggin]

...it did according to this bogus calculation.

Hardly "bogus" when the TC Inspector himself says it is good to go??

Wondering,
Nog

 

[Fishing Guide]

Cheers All,

A 25' Grady White that is parked in Ucluelet was measured according to TC calculations and came in at 4.9 tons. It was then physically checked by TC who confirmed the calculations. I have some very serious concerns that Nog's 282 boat can approach that and, while it is a great boat, it must use the TC calculations. It should come out over the 5 tons and as it is over the 8.5 metres, will also require a life raft.

One may call anything 'bogus' but, if that's what the law of the land requires and one's livelihood and insurance depends upon adhering faithfully to said laws, one would be necessarily careful in how they react.

Enjoy the new boat NOG! She's a beauty!

 

[MyEscape]

George the head TC inspector on the Island who I have known for years sent me the complete commercial cert package so if youd like a copy just pm me with your email addy and Ill send it to you.

He also let me know this life raft thing on under 5 gross ton vessels is still very much in limbo....

Just so you know I just looked at a 30' grady white TC certified with decal and is under 5 gross tons....

Cheers.....

ps I was also told enforcement and inspection of the TC rules plus guide / skipper / deck hand certifications will be very high on TC's list of priorities this season after all the fishing related deaths last year.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

MyEscape, considering the owner of the vessel can calculate tonnage and send it in, I still think they must of fudged the length, breadth, or depth of the boat, maybe not on purpose either. Depth is from keel to the top part of the gunnels, and some may think it is just the amount of boat under the waterline, just look up the specs for the 30 grady and do the math yourself, it is actually well over 6GT.

 

[beemer]

Hardly "bogus" when the TC Inspector himself says it is good to go??

Wondering,
Nog

Hey Nog ,what I was trying to get at was the fact that a 24 ' open boat came very close to requiring a 60 ton limited cert and all the extra headaches.

 

[trophywife]

this needs to be set at 15gt and call it done. this 5gt is forcing boat builders and companies transporting workers in boats that are 5gt and less... yes they have their place... these 5gt boats are getting to be too small for the job.. having a gap between 5gt and 60gt tickets seems WWAYY too big

 

[IronNoggin]

...these 5gt boats are getting to be too small for the job.. having a gap between 5gt and 60gt tickets seems WAY too big

First: AGREED! The Grapevine suggests there are changes afoot scheduled for the future, but the way they drag their feet with Legislation, it may take up to 3 years! EEK!

Second: By forcing charter operators to run boats under 5GT, they are in fact making many run into areas with barely acceptable boats IMHO (NOT looking for any confrontation amongst our ranks here Please!) or less than so. The larger the boat, in general the safer it usually is. By their very actions, TC may be endorsing an impractical policy that endangers both clients, those who run the boats, and the businesses involved. More to come on that as things develop...

Finally: Calculations CONFIRMED. NO "Fudge Factor", by the book every step of the way, and this rig comes in under the 5 tonne margin. Kinda surprised given all the hoopla, and gotta admit I was dammed nervous about it! Rather pleased about that! Although I fully intend to take the 60T FishmMasters License, at least I do not have to take the intermediate Limited Masters (or challenge) immediately!!

Let The Good Times ROLL!

Cheers,
Nog

 

[searun]

Wow, can't believe a 30 foot Grady can be under 5 GT. My Grady 265 Express came in at 4.89 GT. Granted my beam is wide at 9 foot 10 inches, but unless that 30 foot grady is 8 foot beam there is no way it is under 5 GT....or perhaps my math was wrong??

Having said that, the whole 5 GT thing is bogus, and as Nog suggests it is safer if we encourage guys to move up to larger vessels for off shore operation. SVOP covers up to 15 GT, so what's up with the 5 GT limit??

Looks to me like we need to lobby TC for a change to help improve safety.

 

[Labman2]

Hmn, just helped a kid (Matt H. 5th Element Charters, Bamfield) certify his 28' Grady. It came out to 5.4GT, no matter how many times we did the math. He talked to DOT in Kelowna, looking for a break on having to carry the life raft......No Deal!!!!!!

 

[IronNoggin]

Still don't understand the confusion with this really. Especially so having helped and seeing it conducted personally.

The Grady fits into the description for an "Upper Deck" boat due to it's design.
Measurements of length were exact (within a mm or two) from the transom where the engines are hung forward to the end of the bow (but NOT including the anchor pulpit). Depth measurements were taken at the midpoint of that length, which happens to land right on the Upper Deck beneath the operator's toes. The measurement from that deck down to center keel was smaller than I would have guessed from simply looking, however was measured very carefully to ensure accuracy. Width was measured from outside gunnel to outside gunnel at the same point.

These measurements were all in accordance with the TC form 4A, and with the instruction diagrams provided on that particular form, were literally a snap to perform.

Simply can't see how anyone following those instructions could come up with an answer much different than the one we did? Perhaps including the anchor pulpit, or mis-measuring the depth forward of the midpoint (where the progressive Vee will increase that measurement) might push you over the 5T margin, but doing so would be in error according to their rather explicit directions...

Even if you measured depth from the upper gunnel at the mid-point down to center keel, as long as the other measurements were correct, this boat still falls under the 5T margin. Doing so would again be in error, as the boat does meet the criteria of an Upper Deck rig.

Given you must take a series of photographs of the measurements actually being taken and forward those to TC with the completed form, I can't see any "wiggle room" or "fudge factor" for not doing the task exactly as the form defines.

Cheers,
Nog