Strategy for the Northern and Southern Resident Killer Whales

[fish brain]

I'm trying to collect recent information for my letter. I am basing it on the environmental and economic repercussions of removing recreational fishers from the water.
Most of the publications I used for the last one were from 2010 There have been some excellent reference articles posted on the forum in various threads, but they are all of similar vintage.
Some specific questions I have are
How much money is contributed coast wide the the rec fish sector each year for enhancement projects?
How many fish are produced each year because of this ?
What is the current removal of Chinook salmon by rec fishers?

What is the total economic impact of the rec sector in BC?
How has the current restrictions affected the local economies of Port Renfrew, Sooke, Victoria, Sidney and Cowichan?
Articles with references are preferred if there are any. Anecdotal reports from local business and guides from this season would also be appreciated.

Anything else I should address?

Thanks,
Dave

 

[SpringVelocity]

Thanks fish brain. I actually would like to get this thread on track. The purpose at beginning of thread was for a strategy for the immediate threat of fishing closures from DFO. We are drifting again into one of those long winded battles on the forum where we simply get to 100 pages of your right/wrong. Let's be extremely smart as time is short. Ideas for strategies are great, and as I said and will say again be a member of something at least. There are many that fish south island that aren't even a member of SVIAC at the least. These people don't show up to any SFAB meeting or even take time to get engaged. Now is not the time to couch surf all winter on the forum. We all will do our best too relay info when it comes available. As for comment of SFI being all for lodges or guides that is false. And to be honest why would you want the groups that have potential donate all the money for any campaign not on the same side?

Please help all of us to unite our sector. It is important for you the anglers to engage across social media, and face to face to let people know the issues. We all know that what is being presented is not based on facts. If people ask you about these new proposed restrictions to close the offshore banks point to the fact why again are the Northern whales thriving? Why are we closing additional fisheries without the science to back it up. And why are all are in-river fisheries not proposed to be being monitored or cut back?

Another thing the Pender Island fishery I am done with listening to it since the Cow Bay anglers (which I belonged) strongly opposed the move to close it. I am done hearing about how any of us could have done more, and didn't say anything which again is false. We all spoke our minds when that was proposed. The SFAB was ignored and minister did what he did. No one abandoned anyone. As to talks of a magical group that suits everyone with a name. Its not going to happen. We don't have time and you all know it. We have this fall/winter to move as quickly as possible. So again I encourage you to join SFI ,and if that isn't an option for some reason join any of the other groups like BCWF or SVIAC or whatever else floats your boat. Just do something.

 

[Islander57]

One thing that has been said to affect the orcas is contamination. When will Victoria finally stop dumping raw sewage into the Juan de Fuca?

 

[ericl]

The ONLY reason you are on here is because you constantly whine and moan your fishery is closed and blame us for it. Why else would you come on here? I am glad it amuses you. How anyone on here can side with environmental groups with what is going on is beyond me. I even heard terms in there greedy fisherman from your personally. Who are you referencing? We will remember that when we are standing our enhancement creeks in October thinking about what you said. Some of the comments on this forum are unreal.

For the most part many of the people on this forum amuse me greatly - kind of a cross between America's funniest Home Video's & Judge Judy. FYI your last 5 sentences make no sense to me other than the last one. Be glad to address them but in their current state I can't

I can agree with you that some of the comments on this forum are unreal. Other than letting off steam or whining about stuff your mommy wouldn't listen to what do you contribute yourself? Do you ever offer links to data supporting your rants? Do you ever offer advice to newbie questions?

Anyone know is the US contemplating whale sanctuaries as well? I’m sure the end game for the enviros is to shut down the Gulf and SanJuans. I find this sanctuary idea a bit flawed for a couple of reasons. It seems to assume the whales only intercept fish in specific areas of the fish migration routes. Anything as smart as an Orca would surely be smart enough to move to where the salmon are. Clearly the don’t read fishing reports, but just as clearly they they are very mobile and can find the fish. It seems odd to me we are setting up these Sanctuaries in what is close to urban centres and prime whale watching areas. The fact that trolling motors are an issue in sanctuaries yet flotillas of whale watching vessels aren’t also makes one wonder.

Great points ziggy.

US has declared VOLUNTARY no fishing zones on the west side of San Juan Island. A WA state task force report is due this November. K & L pods enter Puget Sound in the fall to eat Chum Salmon. If the science linking reduced Chinook populations with reduced SRKW populations is true, then no matter where they move, there are not enough Chinook. Also, excessive travel in pursuit of Chinook uses valuable calories.

DFO & the environmental groups are at odds over a few issues; one of which is whale watching in critical habitat area's; the enviro's say no whale watching.

Another is what should & should not be critical habitat; the enviro's do not support the Massett/Langara or Swiftsure /La Perouse zones. (wonder if SpringVelocity will read this part ha ha)

 

[SpringVelocity]

I will repost this for EricL since he also has a hard time reading.

Thanks fish brain. I actually would like to get this thread on track. The purpose at beginning of thread was for a strategy for the immediate threat of fishing closures from DFO. We are drifting again into one of those long winded battles on the forum where we simply get to 100 pages of your right/wrong. Let's be extremely smart as time is short. Ideas for strategies are great, and as I said and will say again be a member of something at least. There are many that fish south island that aren't even a member of SVIAC at the least. These people don't show up to any SFAB meeting or even take time to get engaged. Now is not the time to couch surf all winter on the forum. We all will do our best too relay info when it comes available. As for comment of SFI being all for lodges or guides that is false. And to be honest why would you want the groups that have potential donate all the money for any campaign not on the same side?

Please help all of us to unite our sector. It is important for you the anglers to engage across social media, and face to face to let people know the issues. We all know that what is being presented is not based on facts. If people ask you about these new proposed restrictions to close the offshore banks point to the fact why again are the Northern whales thriving? Why are we closing additional fisheries without the science to back it up. And why are all are in-river fisheries not proposed to be being monitored or cut back?

Another thing the Pender Island fishery I am done with listening to it since the Cow Bay anglers (which I belonged) strongly opposed the move to close it. I am done hearing about how any of us could have done more, and didn't say anything which again is false. We all spoke our minds when that was proposed. The SFAB was ignored and minister did what he did. No one abandoned anyone. As to talks of a magical group that suits everyone with a name. Its not going to happen. We don't have time and you all know it. We have this fall/winter to move as quickly as possible. So again I encourage you to join SFI ,and if that isn't an option for some reason join any of the other groups like BCWF or SVIAC or whatever else floats your boat. Just do something.

 

[ziggy]

One thing that has been said to affect the orcas is contamination. When will Victoria finally stop dumping raw sewage into the Juan de Fuca?

Well I’m not sure when, but they are building a 3/4 Billion dollar plant as we speak. As an aside,the actual impact the sewage was having, seemed to split both the scientific and medical communities. Many people worry about the biodegradable waste which may be yucky ( scientific term) but is not as dangerous as are chemicals and pharmaceuticals. The problem may be still the storm water as well as land based storage of extracted chemicals and pharmaceuticals. As well,many of the communities within Greater Victoria already have sewage treatment, but this sewage/ Victoria issue seems to be an excuse for not worrying about environmental impacts as long as it exists, when the plant is built who knows what the next excuse will be. An attempt to deflect IMO.

 

[Islander57]

but is not as dangerous as are chemicals and pharmaceuticals. The problem may be still the storm water as well as land based storage of extracted chemicals and pharmaceuticals.

There are a wide variety of pharmaceuticals and chemicals that go out with raw sewage. Human waste contains pharmaceutical residuals and a variety of cleaning solutions get flushed as well.

 

[profisher]

I haven't heard that the new Victoria sewage plant will remove the chemicals that are the problem coming out of outfalls.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Pollution is a problem but it’s only a small part of the SRKW face. Transient whales in the Salish sea eat seals and seals are far more toxic then Chinook. Transient whale populations in the Salish sea are doing well.

But let’s tey to get back on topic and talk about a strategy that recreational fishermen can use to try and save our opportunity to fish.

 

[Rain City]

But let’s tey to get back on topic and talk about a strategy that recreational fishermen can use to try and save our opportunity to fish.

THAT'S what the topic was supposed to be?! Who would have known.

 

[wildmanyeah]

THAT'S what the topic was supposed to be?! Who would have known.

lol im not actually sure...

 

[Rockfish]

https://www.timescolonist.com/news/...roups-for-suing-over-killer-whales-1.23425377

 

[Islander57]

I think there are many more issues to the demise of the killers whales than are being recognized. I often question the herring fishing management, as herring are an important piece to the food chain, and chinook numbers are dwindling in part to the amount of salmon fry that are predated upon as they leave their native streams by seal and sea lions, that normally would feed on the abundance of herring. I support a cull on the seals and seal lions, but IMO, without addressing the herring fishery, it won't make a lot of difference. Once upon a time, you could troll for salmon, and find bait with relative ease. That hasn't been the case of late. I have fished Kitty, Grant's Reef and Sentry without seeing hardly any bait. Opinions?

 

[searun]

To answer questions regarding the economic benefits of the Recreational Salmon fishery, here are some facts from a study prepared for the Pacific Salmon Commission in 2017:

Expressed in US $ based on a 5 year average

Economic Output = $713 million US per year
Contribution to Canada's GDP = $440 million US per year
Labour Income = $246 million US per year
Jobs = 6150

There is little doubt as to the social and economic benefits the recreational salmon fishery contributes to small coastal communities. Many inhabitants might be numb to all the direct and indirect ways in which money generated within the fishery contributes to real jobs and benefits in their communities. These decisions are not without impacts, and what concerns me is the current proposed expansion of the critical habitat under SARA will have yet to be determined impacts to those very economic and social benefits cited in the 2017 study.

I also think that some on this forum are being unduly hard on the video. The points being raised are to share decades of actual on the water observations that killer whales are rarely ever using (observed) on LaPerouse Bank. Listen carefully and he's very clearly talking about LaPerouse, not other areas. These observations contradict the official science advice offered by DFO to justify the expansion of critical habitat. That same science lacks any acoustic monitoring evidence to support this claim, and also admits there is little by way of actual on the water observation of killer whales using this supposed critical habitat. So one of the points raised in the video is the SRKW simply do not rely upon this habitat (LaPerouse) - so this would appear to be politically motivated, rather than actually science based.

I participated in a SRKW conference call where some of the Area G trollers were sharing their over 50 years of on the water experience, stating the very same observations Ian presents in the video - the whales simply do not use this habitat in any regular way....actually very rarely.

So that begs the question, is the juice worth the squeeze? Significant economic and social values tossed away to satisfy the ill informed perceptions of people who actually have not spent real time on LaPerouse to be considered experts.

Having said the above, like many I believe we do need a very strong recovery strategy that strives to balance effective science based measures with also achieving a balance between other human economic and social activities. Both can co-exist if we are prepared to make wise choices rather than being rushed into making emotional decisions that in the reality of time won't measure up.

Pretty clearly we need more Chinook - what to do?

1) Increase hatchery production in rivers known to have Chinook that range in the Salish Sea and WCVI - those would be East Coast VI rivers like Cowichan, Nanaimo. Puntledge, Quinsam/Campbell, Qualicum, Chilliwack, Chehalis, Harrison, Squamish, Capilano. All but one river on the list has a production hatchery facility, and their fish stay near home therefore increasing availability for SRKW within their normal range

2) Increase habitat and stream fertilization (same rivers)

3) Decrease commercial fisheries on species that are prey for Chinook (crab, herring, krill)

4) Implement targeted pinniped control to remove specific individuals that have become habituated to prey upon out-migrating chinook smolts and those who are venturing into rivers in search of easy prey.

Another SRKW Threat Pillar is Physical and Acoustic Disturbance...what to do?

1) Implement a 400m bubble zone to enforce a strict mobile vessel exclusion zone to allow whales to acquire prey - back that up with requirements for vessels to shut off sounders to reduce acoustic disturbances, and require them to very slowly depart areas. If fishing, pull in gear and cease all fishing activity until clear of the exclusion zone. Back it up with significant fines and strong enforcement and a public education program.

2) re-route commercial vessels where possible from SRKW forage areas

Another threat is pollution...what to do?

1) Increase the effectiveness of sewage treatment facilities in Victoria and Vancouver - we have to stop dumping toxins into the environment. These whales are showing signs of illness likely related to accumulations of environmental toxins. These same toxins impact Chinook smolts.

 

[ziggy]

I haven't heard that the new Victoria sewage plant will remove the chemicals that are the problem coming out of outfalls.

Not sure, I do know that it will cover. Primary, Secondary and Tertiary. I believe neither Seattle, Vancouver or Port Angeles have the third stage, so it may well be the best facility in the area.I’m no expert but I’m not sure there is a system that completely removes chemicals and or pharmaceuticals. Anyway enough on this

 

[cohochinook]

To answer questions regarding the economic benefits of the Recreational Salmon fishery, here are some facts from a study prepared for the Pacific Salmon Commission in 2017:

Expressed in US $ based on a 5 year average

Economic Output = $713 million US per year
Contribution to Canada's GDP = $440 million US per year
Labour Income = $246 million US per year
Jobs = 6150

There is little doubt as to the social and economic benefits the recreational salmon fishery contributes to small coastal communities. Many inhabitants might be numb to all the direct and indirect ways in which money generated within the fishery contributes to real jobs and benefits in their communities. These decisions are not without impacts, and what concerns me is the current proposed expansion of the critical habitat under SARA will have yet to be determined impacts to those very economic and social benefits cited in the 2017 study.

I also think that some on this forum are being unduly hard on the video. The points being raised are to share decades of actual on the water observations that killer whales are rarely ever using (observed) on LaPerouse Bank. Listen carefully and he's very clearly talking about LaPerouse, not other areas. These observations contradict the official science advice offered by DFO to justify the expansion of critical habitat. That same science lacks any acoustic monitoring evidence to support this claim, and also admits there is little by way of actual on the water observation of killer whales using this supposed critical habitat. So one of the points raised in the video is the SRKW simply do not rely upon this habitat (LaPerouse) - so this would appear to be politically motivated, rather than actually science based.

I participated in a SRKW conference call where some of the Area G trollers were sharing their over 50 years of on the water experience, stating the very same observations Ian presents in the video - the whales simply do not use this habitat in any regular way....actually very rarely.

So that begs the question, is the juice worth the squeeze? Significant economic and social values tossed away to satisfy the ill informed perceptions of people who actually have not spent real time on LaPerouse to be considered experts.

Having said the above, like many I believe we do need a very strong recovery strategy that strives to balance effective science based measures with also achieving a balance between other human economic and social activities. Both can co-exist if we are prepared to make wise choices rather than being rushed into making emotional decisions that in the reality of time won't measure up.

Pretty clearly we need more Chinook - what to do?

1) Increase hatchery production in rivers known to have Chinook that range in the Salish Sea and WCVI - those would be East Coast VI rivers like Cowichan, Nanaimo. Puntledge, Quinsam/Campbell, Qualicum, Chilliwack, Chehalis, Harrison, Squamish, Capilano. All but one river on the list has a production hatchery facility, and their fish stay near home therefore increasing availability for SRKW within their normal range

2) Increase habitat and stream fertilization (same rivers)

3) Decrease commercial fisheries on species that are prey for Chinook (crab, herring, krill)

4) Implement targeted pinniped control to remove specific individuals that have become habituated to prey upon out-migrating chinook smolts and those who are venturing into rivers in search of easy prey.

Another SRKW Threat Pillar is Physical and Acoustic Disturbance...what to do?

1) Implement a 400m bubble zone to enforce a strict mobile vessel exclusion zone to allow whales to acquire prey - back that up with requirements for vessels to shut off sounders to reduce acoustic disturbances, and require them to very slowly depart areas. If fishing, pull in gear and cease all fishing activity until clear of the exclusion zone. Back it up with significant fines and strong enforcement and a public education program.

2) re-route commercial vessels where possible from SRKW forage areas

Another threat is pollution...what to do?

1) Increase the effectiveness of sewage treatment facilities in Victoria and Vancouver - we have to stop dumping toxins into the environment. These whales are showing signs of illness likely related to accumulations of environmental toxins. These same toxins impact Chinook smolts.

Very well said and some great points!

 

[fish brain]

To answer questions regarding the economic benefits of the Recreational Salmon fishery, here are some facts from a study prepared for the Pacific Salmon Commission in 2017:

Expressed in US $ based on a 5 year average

Economic Output = $713 million US per year
Contribution to Canada's GDP = $440 million US per year
Labour Income = $246 million US per year
Jobs = 6150

There is little doubt as to the social and economic benefits the recreational salmon fishery contributes to small coastal communities. Many inhabitants might be numb to all the direct and indirect ways in which money generated within the fishery contributes to real jobs and benefits in their communities. These decisions are not without impacts, and what concerns me is the current proposed expansion of the critical habitat under SARA will have yet to be determined impacts to those very economic and social benefits cited in the 2017 study.

I also think that some on this forum are being unduly hard on the video. The points being raised are to share decades of actual on the water observations that killer whales are rarely ever using (observed) on LaPerouse Bank. Listen carefully and he's very clearly talking about LaPerouse, not other areas. These observations contradict the official science advice offered by DFO to justify the expansion of critical habitat. That same science lacks any acoustic monitoring evidence to support this claim, and also admits there is little by way of actual on the water observation of killer whales using this supposed critical habitat. So one of the points raised in the video is the SRKW simply do not rely upon this habitat (LaPerouse) - so this would appear to be politically motivated, rather than actually science based.

I participated in a SRKW conference call where some of the Area G trollers were sharing their over 50 years of on the water experience, stating the very same observations Ian presents in the video - the whales simply do not use this habitat in any regular way....actually very rarely.

So that begs the question, is the juice worth the squeeze? Significant economic and social values tossed away to satisfy the ill informed perceptions of people who actually have not spent real time on LaPerouse to be considered experts.

Having said the above, like many I believe we do need a very strong recovery strategy that strives to balance effective science based measures with also achieving a balance between other human economic and social activities. Both can co-exist if we are prepared to make wise choices rather than being rushed into making emotional decisions that in the reality of time won't measure up.

Pretty clearly we need more Chinook - what to do?

1) Increase hatchery production in rivers known to have Chinook that range in the Salish Sea and WCVI - those would be East Coast VI rivers like Cowichan, Nanaimo. Puntledge, Quinsam/Campbell, Qualicum, Chilliwack, Chehalis, Harrison, Squamish, Capilano. All but one river on the list has a production hatchery facility, and their fish stay near home therefore increasing availability for SRKW within their normal range

2) Increase habitat and stream fertilization (same rivers)

3) Decrease commercial fisheries on species that are prey for Chinook (crab, herring, krill)

4) Implement targeted pinniped control to remove specific individuals that have become habituated to prey upon out-migrating chinook smolts and those who are venturing into rivers in search of easy prey.

Another SRKW Threat Pillar is Physical and Acoustic Disturbance...what to do?

1) Implement a 400m bubble zone to enforce a strict mobile vessel exclusion zone to allow whales to acquire prey - back that up with requirements for vessels to shut off sounders to reduce acoustic disturbances, and require them to very slowly depart areas. If fishing, pull in gear and cease all fishing activity until clear of the exclusion zone. Back it up with significant fines and strong enforcement and a public education program.

2) re-route commercial vessels where possible from SRKW forage areas

Another threat is pollution...what to do?

1) Increase the effectiveness of sewage treatment facilities in Victoria and Vancouver - we have to stop dumping toxins into the environment. These whales are showing signs of illness likely related to accumulations of environmental toxins. These same toxins impact Chinook smolts.

This is excellent @searun. I have been poking around the PSC website and can't find the the document you reference, can you please post the link?

 

[Time]

Thanks Searun, good posting.
Agree that harvesting of Chinook's feed (herring etc. ) needs to be addressed.
Starve the Springs starve the whales.

 

[california]

I also think that some on this forum are being unduly hard on the video. The points being raised are to share decades of actual on the water observations that killer whales are rarely ever using (observed) on LaPerouse Bank. Listen carefully and he's very clearly talking about LaPerouse, not other areas.

Not to flog a dead horse but if all he had done in the video was make a case for La Perouse there wouldn't be much of an issue. He gets to that eventually, after a misinformed rant about how whales starving is "a crock" . I agree closures on LaPerouse, Swiftsure and Dixon entrance are not needed, but I found much of the rest of his rant counterproductive. It just plays into the stereotype the NGOs want of sport fisherman as self centered and ignorant, or at least indifferent to the issues facing the whales. This is exactly the kind of spokesperson we need to avoid.

Pretty clearly we need more Chinook - what to do?

You make some very good points on what could be done. I disagree with the hatchery ramp up, as if you want science based solutions that is not supported, but a debate for another time.

What is missing is any contribution by sport fisherman to this plan. The reductions in limits seen this year in some areas for parts of the season were long overdue given the state of chinook stocks. Only politics prevented the Conservatives from implementing reductions years ago as they were more concerned with placating sport fisherman votes than the current government which is more aligned with voters sympathetic to green groups. We are the largest exploiter of the chinook resource, and any plans or negotiations for SRKW or overall chinook survival will have to include some effects on the group that catches the most chinook. Ericl posted on another thread that it "looks like aneverybody else is to blame" situation, and that seems to still be the case. The various sport fisherman advocacy groups will need to be prepared to offer up ideas of what sport fisherman can do, not just what everyone else can do. What might they be?

For some initiall thoughts I see two themes:
1. Minimize Sport fishing vessel impacts on foraging behaviour -Proposing bubble zones not just in the current or proposed critical areas but everywhere. In reality the entire coast could be critical habitat, any area the orcas decide to feed is critical at that time. Therefore the rule coast wide could be if Orcas come in the the area, sport fisherman turn off their electronics, pull their gear and leave. This should at least be a discussion point to offer up in exchange for continued access to the new proposed critical habitat areas, not just bubble zones in those areas.
2. Increase availibility of Early season chinook. The issue for SRKW is less about Salmon availability late summer and early fall as it is availability early in the season, when their only option is Chinook. Proposals to minimize chinook harvest early in the season while preserving opportunities later in the season when fish are more plentiful. What might this look like?
- Winter fishing; A potential closure of all chinook (all salmon) fishing coast wide from Dec 1 to March 1. This accomplishes 3 things, it gives the mostly undersized fish a break and eliminates the mortality on these young chinook from C&R, It leaves any larger early season fish in the water for the whales or escapement, and it ensures the whales will have feeding grounds free from sport boats during the leanest time of the year.
- Spring fishing : continue with the limit reductions seen this year. To reduce exploitation on early season fish heading to US rivers reduce chinook limits to 1 per day on the WCVI as well as everywhere else. Perhaps until July 1 or 15. The science says a big issue for the whales is the precipitous decline of early run chinook extending the time they have to live off fat reserves. Get in front of the curve and use this as a negotiation point to keep late season access.
-Summer/fall fishing - Expand the WCVI and Haida Gwaii limits back to 2 per day as of July 1 or 15. This continues to support the summer economic activity of the sport industry and exploits the runs at the time there is probably enough for both sport fisherman and Whales.

 

[ziggy]

I agree we need a coast wide plan, in fact I’d go further and suggest an international plan. I am unaware if for example,Washington State is establishing whale sanctuaries or is it strictly a Canadian initiative? If it’s such a good idea, why is it only us doing it? What impact does the South Alaska fishery have on the stock? Why are some areas along the migration route of the salmon open, while some are closed?

DFO seems to only look at closure while ignoring other tools in its box when it rests to English pressure. Increasingly these are total fin fish closures as opposed to their more moderate, Spring non Retention Closure? They could look at amending annual as well as daily limits, but they seem to be a binary organization, on or off. I guess it makes their life easier.