Ancient Mariner
Member
There were maps of the proposed srkw closure areas on here one was Beechy head to Obrian, port renfrew, swiftsure bank, gulf islands, off the Fraser. I can not seem to find them again. Also there was a link to write dfo.
Strategy for the Northern and Southern Resident Killer Whales
- Thread starter cohochinook
- Start date
Bryan Allen
Well-Known Member
Not "Nation to Nation"
Exactly, Brian.
Most "Chiefs" (both hereditary and elected Chief Councillors) well understand that they may be considered an appropriate contact for a level of governance (hereditary system if it exists or Band Council, respectively) in Tier II G2G negotiations with either the feds or the province. Any municipal mayor is a contact for governance in only municipal matters within the jurisdiction and city limits of their municipality - which does NOT include federal jurisdiction.
Elected Chief Councillors in theory (thru the Indian Act statutes) have their authority limited to "on reserve" (Federal Crown) jurisdiction - but since many FNs had their hereditary systems systematically dismantled during colonization and are slowly redeveloping that system in some but not all FNs - the feds and the province have used the band council system for many years now as a surrogate for the hereditary system for negotiations and approvals and thru common law have developed the legal grounds to keep doing so. Where that gets sticky is where both systems exist and both have different answers to questions of Rights & Titles and the government decides to play one off against the other like we have seen in the Wet'suwet'en Coastal Gaslink pipeline debacle. Divide and conquer being the modus operandi of the feds in all matters - esp. fisheries.
There is a group called the "Union of BC Municipalities" that is the "voice for local government in British Columbia". So, the fact that mayors only have jurisdiction within their city limits doesn't mean that mayors and the Union of BC Municipalities can't apply political pressure. However, in terms of authority on federal matters especially FN Rights & Title - mayors have none.
So I am having trouble understanding why mayors would be involved in fishery negotiations any more than any individual private citizen. I also have trouble believing the claim that someone found someone claiming to be a chief whom doesn't understand this stuff intimately. Not that there aren't inexperienced Elected Chief Councillors out there - but it is their job & responsibility to know this stuff. So I find that claim questionable.
Most "Chiefs" (both hereditary and elected Chief Councillors) well understand that they may be considered an appropriate contact for a level of governance (hereditary system if it exists or Band Council, respectively) in Tier II G2G negotiations with either the feds or the province. Any municipal mayor is a contact for governance in only municipal matters within the jurisdiction and city limits of their municipality - which does NOT include federal jurisdiction.
Elected Chief Councillors in theory (thru the Indian Act statutes) have their authority limited to "on reserve" (Federal Crown) jurisdiction - but since many FNs had their hereditary systems systematically dismantled during colonization and are slowly redeveloping that system in some but not all FNs - the feds and the province have used the band council system for many years now as a surrogate for the hereditary system for negotiations and approvals and thru common law have developed the legal grounds to keep doing so. Where that gets sticky is where both systems exist and both have different answers to questions of Rights & Titles and the government decides to play one off against the other like we have seen in the Wet'suwet'en Coastal Gaslink pipeline debacle. Divide and conquer being the modus operandi of the feds in all matters - esp. fisheries.
There is a group called the "Union of BC Municipalities" that is the "voice for local government in British Columbia". So, the fact that mayors only have jurisdiction within their city limits doesn't mean that mayors and the Union of BC Municipalities can't apply political pressure. However, in terms of authority on federal matters especially FN Rights & Title - mayors have none.
So I am having trouble understanding why mayors would be involved in fishery negotiations any more than any individual private citizen. I also have trouble believing the claim that someone found someone claiming to be a chief whom doesn't understand this stuff intimately. Not that there aren't inexperienced Elected Chief Councillors out there - but it is their job & responsibility to know this stuff. So I find that claim questionable.
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wildmanyeah
Crew Member
I think the point was to demonstrate that fishery’s are very important to First Nations community but of little importance to non native communities.
Do I think he was ignorant to the realities of the system no, but I think he was good at the playing the game and the room.
enough so to put DFO representative in tears
maybe we would of been better of if AA was at the table explaining why he was wrong.
or in the more simplest terms why he was full of ********.
Do I think he was ignorant to the realities of the system no, but I think he was good at the playing the game and the room.
enough so to put DFO representative in tears
maybe we would of been better of if AA was at the table explaining why he was wrong.
or in the more simplest terms why he was full of ********.
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Thanks for the clarification, WMY.
Ya - if I had heard a plea to get mayors involved as representatives on a Tier II G2G meeting - I would have questioned that suggestion. And as you say - it may instead have been a ploy to disrupt whatever was going on at the time.
As an aside - I often feel for the local and/or regional DFO reps that are told by their upper echelon to attend, spout the approved speaking notes from the Communications Branch, and put the flak jacket on and take the arrows. The ones making the decisions should be at those tables verses the sometimes naive sacrificial lambs. But the upper DFO managers (esp. the Deputy Ministers orifice) who make the decisions behind the scenes often like to hide and continue pulling the sh*t they pull with others wearing those consequences.
Ya - if I had heard a plea to get mayors involved as representatives on a Tier II G2G meeting - I would have questioned that suggestion. And as you say - it may instead have been a ploy to disrupt whatever was going on at the time.
As an aside - I often feel for the local and/or regional DFO reps that are told by their upper echelon to attend, spout the approved speaking notes from the Communications Branch, and put the flak jacket on and take the arrows. The ones making the decisions should be at those tables verses the sometimes naive sacrificial lambs. But the upper DFO managers (esp. the Deputy Ministers orifice) who make the decisions behind the scenes often like to hide and continue pulling the sh*t they pull with others wearing those consequences.
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wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Yeah it was not about having mayors there For FN negotiations but pointing out they are absent for sports fishing negotiations.
but it’s just playing the bs game
but it’s just playing the bs game
High Time
Crew Member
I have also noted that the link has disappeared. I guess that info was not meant for us riff raff.....
Will just have to wait for the knife to fall. wildmanyeah
Crew Member
I have also noted that the link has disappeared. I guess that info was not meant for us riff raff.....
here is the link it’s from a First Nation meeting.
Proposed 2022 SRKW measure options and longer-term work.pdf
drive.google.com
I deleted my original post with it as I did not want to deal with drama over something that may change multiple times but my understanding is some form of this will be put out for comment
aka lobbying
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
You can personally thank your buddies for Raincoast, Watershed watch , Georgia alliance, Suzuki etc. Not our friends. They do not want boats on the water period fishing for anything.
Even more disturbing is just found out that Raincoast (this is public knowledge on website) has secured two high level scientists to now look at Northern Resident whales now.
In the wake of increasing pressure on whales, Raincoast Conservation Foundation expands its capacity for research and advocacy | Raincoast
VANCOUVER, BC: Two renowned, BC based cetacean researchers have joined Raincoast Conservation Foundation to lead its new Cetacean Conservation Research Program.
www.raincoast.org
You know where that will head. To me that might signal mission accomplished with southern closures. Hope I am wrong.
If public consultations come out which they have too we need to pack the rooms. East Sooke fishery and beach fishery in Port Renfrew are being threatened. As well as whatever is left of mainland and southern gulf island fisheries. Not a joke.
It should be more clear in next few weeks what the final maps are. These maps are all still in feedback stages with the SFAC reps.
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OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Hire 3 scientists to prove the whales are fine. Fight fire with fire.You can personally thank your buddies for Raincoast, Watershed watch , Georgia alliance, Suzuki etc. Not our friends.
Even more disturbing is just found out that Raincoast (this is public knowledge on website) has secured two high level scientists to now look at Northern Resident whales now.
In the wake of increasing pressure on whales, Raincoast Conservation Foundation expands its capacity for research and advocacy | Raincoast
VANCOUVER, BC: Two renowned, BC based cetacean researchers have joined Raincoast Conservation Foundation to lead its new Cetacean Conservation Research Program.
You know where that will head. To me that might signal mission accomplished with southern closures. Hope I am wrong.
If public consultations come out which they have too we need to pack the rooms.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Well then I guess the dance is over.And who will write the check... most fisherman dont even belong or support one organization for the most part.. sadly
However, the Greens are not one organization and they raised the money?
Ancient Mariner
Member
This is not the time to point fingers at each other. This is time to bring any information concerning this topic available to this forum so people will hopefully get involved or at least write a letter.And who will write the check... most fisherman dont even belong or support one organization for the most part.. sadly
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
what information beyond the link do you want? See this is why i originally deleted it because it appears people are finding it confusing.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Yeah I agree with not releasing it yet until we have final options confirmed. That is fine if FN want to post links everywhere but these documents keep changing every time the technical groups meet.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
And who will write the check... most fisherman dont even belong or support one organization for the most part.. sadly
OBD going to write it?
We need a few million and sure he can cover it.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Well, the groups you mentioned in your discussion have raised enough money to do it. You need a cause that the general public will care about it seems this is not one.OBD going to write it?
Here is what google came up with
How much does a Biological scientist make in Canada? The average biological scientist salary in Canada is $92,500 per year or $47.44 per hour. Entry-level positions start at $65,000 per year, while most experienced workers make up to $141,000 per year.
Get a handful of grad students. Maybe get a couple to work on a thesis paper or something like that. This shouldn't need to be a big budget operation. You just need some alternative facts!
How much does a Biological scientist make in Canada? The average biological scientist salary in Canada is $92,500 per year or $47.44 per hour. Entry-level positions start at $65,000 per year, while most experienced workers make up to $141,000 per year.
Get a handful of grad students. Maybe get a couple to work on a thesis paper or something like that. This shouldn't need to be a big budget operation. You just need some alternative facts!
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