SRKW Royalty?
- Thread starter islandboy
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"Wilhelmson adds that the way to increase the population and reduce inbreeding is better regulate Chinook salmon fishing". How??? hand puppets? Gentle music, hand-puppets and a little tug? Does this Wilhelsom understand how stupid he sounds?
islandboy
Well-Known Member
Proof their agenda trumps science.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Independent citizen ENGO science obviously
ship happens
Crew Member
Here is my message to all of the scientists with PHDs. My synopsis is that you can stuff Chinook salmon down their gullets all day long every day until their coughing up salmon and their still doomed. Their DNA has changed. It's going to be either a hundred years or more for them to grow out of it enough to where it's not an issue, or natural selection will take them out.
ship happens
Crew Member
Endangered whale population now threatened by inbreeding, study finds
Study of orcas in North Pacific finds finds signs of inbreeding, which means orcas are dying at a younger age and producing fewer offspring
www.theglobeandmail.com
Still no talk from the so-called scientists about how all the babies were stolen and who in the pods were killed or how many. Or how that actually was the start of all of this decline within their pods. Jist goes back to raincoast again and how chinook are the root. Such BS
High Time
Crew Member
Their trying to make us carry the can for their non-scientific screw up over sixty years ago. Lets have more useless whale sanctuaries.Endangered whale population now threatened by inbreeding, study finds
Study of orcas in North Pacific finds finds signs of inbreeding, which means orcas are dying at a younger age and producing fewer offspring
Still no talk from the so-called scientists about how all the babies were stolen and who in the pods were killed or how many. Or how that actually was the start of all of this decline within their pods. Jist goes back to raincoast again and how chinook are the root. Such BS
God I hate politicians....
At the time that southern residents were removed for aquariums they were already less than half their pre 1900 numbers they were killed by fisherman and whalers because they were seen as a nuisance up until nearly the time they were protected. The captured fish were likely a small fraction of the number that had been killed prior to that time. look up the history and the numbers of whales being killed by the whaling industry was massive.
ship happens
Crew Member
Hey @steeler
I did. As a matter of fact there's no answers in history to the questions I asked in the end of my study.
They were not seen as a nuisance they were seen as dollar signs. Like when they would take the young males and females and pay more for them, so they could try and breed them in captivity so they could produce their own whales for amusement instead of having to pay for them.
Let's see some data numbers ones that I haven't already found and pointed out. Let's do a news article on that. How can you pick on guys in little tiny boats trying to catch a fish until that discussion is made? Let's have that discussion. Setup a meeting. People want to discuss this.
I did. As a matter of fact there's no answers in history to the questions I asked in the end of my study.
They were not seen as a nuisance they were seen as dollar signs. Like when they would take the young males and females and pay more for them, so they could try and breed them in captivity so they could produce their own whales for amusement instead of having to pay for them.
Let's see some data numbers ones that I haven't already found and pointed out. Let's do a news article on that. How can you pick on guys in little tiny boats trying to catch a fish until that discussion is made? Let's have that discussion. Setup a meeting. People want to discuss this.
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You wont find data on how many orcas were killed by whalers or fisherman because they weren't commercially harvested the same goes for seals and sea lions they were just killed and left with no records. I don't believe sports fishing is a serious concern for southern residents, but I also don't believe they have enough chinook abundance to survive long term based on my own short life experience fishing and seeing the decline in size and numbers through that time. This isn't a new idea, scientists have been concerned about inbreeding for years but that doesn't mean that all the other factors aren't important. Blaming sports fishing is just the easiest target for a government that doesn't want to appear that they are doing little to actually help them rebuild numbers and continues to stack the deck against them by increasing tanker traffic through the tmx and growing ports. Increasing the numbers of massive industrial ships in our waters at the same time telling tiny sport fishing boats they are the problem is kind of ironic or a politically motivated distraction.
There has quite a bit of genetic/conservation science done on isolated, small populations over the years. If I remember my numbers correctly - any such population needs ~200+ individuals to keep the deleterious genetic mutations from inbreeding/introgression down to a reasonable level; and a ~20% immigration/emigration rate is really helpful in maintaining this necessary genetic diversity.
This genetic diversity appears to be lacking from the SRKW due to population size (~74 individuals further separated into 3 pods - J, K, & L) - and unless they can interbreed with the NRKWs (which are doing great in comparison) - these genetic threats/impacts will likely increase. Restricting sportsfishing further will have absolutely no effect here and I'd like to see any science from the ENGOs that says otherwise. They have of course not offered any data/science to support this ludicrous and silly claim (and there have been other such unsupported claims that are conveniently forgotten - like the supply of Chinook).
So... the ENGOs have absolutely zero credibility in this latest silly & disingenuous claim, IMHO.
If they wish to go out and entice the NRKWs with romantic music and handpuppets and transfer seamen to SRKWs - I wish them the best of luck.
This genetic diversity appears to be lacking from the SRKW due to population size (~74 individuals further separated into 3 pods - J, K, & L) - and unless they can interbreed with the NRKWs (which are doing great in comparison) - these genetic threats/impacts will likely increase. Restricting sportsfishing further will have absolutely no effect here and I'd like to see any science from the ENGOs that says otherwise. They have of course not offered any data/science to support this ludicrous and silly claim (and there have been other such unsupported claims that are conveniently forgotten - like the supply of Chinook).
So... the ENGOs have absolutely zero credibility in this latest silly & disingenuous claim, IMHO.
If they wish to go out and entice the NRKWs with romantic music and handpuppets and transfer seamen to SRKWs - I wish them the best of luck.
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ship happens
Crew Member
mbowers
Well-Known Member
From https://www.pugetsoundinstitute.org...g-endangered-southern-resident-killer-whales/
Every other population of killer whales is booming. The SRKW have zero chance of surviving without a stop to inbreeding. But only the whales can control that.
Every other population of killer whales is booming. The SRKW have zero chance of surviving without a stop to inbreeding. But only the whales can control that.
ship happens
Crew Member
Yep. That's right. Only the whales can control that. I fear some crazy scientist's might want to try and control that. Which would be a big mistake IMHO
My guess or theory is that it would take several if not more generations. Which would or could take up to a couple hundred years. If they don't make the cut then naultural selection will take them out. It really is out of our hands as humans. Damage is done. Then sprinkle industrial pollution ontop of all of that. It's mind numbing
It's not impossible. Those whales are survivors down to their core.
My guess or theory is that it would take several if not more generations. Which would or could take up to a couple hundred years. If they don't make the cut then naultural selection will take them out. It really is out of our hands as humans. Damage is done. Then sprinkle industrial pollution ontop of all of that. It's mind numbing
It's not impossible. Those whales are survivors down to their core.
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Thanks for that news article, mbowers. There are some really important insights relayed from the interview with the main researcher (Marty Kardos) from that study - that aren't openly acknowledged by the ENGOs saying rec fishing should be further restricted:
Human intervention to improve the genetic condition of the Southern Residents is pretty much out of the question, according to Ward. (no duh!)
One might hope for the remote chance that one or more Northern Resident males might mate with Southern Resident females, thus infusing new genes into the Southern Resident population. But the new genetic study shows that this has never happened among the 100 whales included in the genetic analysis.
Likewise, the Northern Resident population has more than doubled from an estimate of 122 in 1974 to 302 in 2018. Transients are estimated at 243 with a rapid growth period from the 1970s into the 1990s. The offshores, another distinct population, appears to comprise more than 300 animals with no identified growth trend. (so the NRKWs are finding more than enuff salmon - and why the disparity between the NRKW and SRKW stock trajectories?).
It appears that both the ancestral populations of Alaska Resident and Southern Resident orcas were much larger in the distant past before declining about 700 years ago, according to the study. (so humans unlikely caused that decline)
ship happens
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mbowers
Well-Known Member
Here's another good one from the article.
"Although early studies suggested that the miscarriages and post-natal mortalities could be directly linked to a shortage of Chinook salmon, those conclusions are being reconsidered, according to Eric Ward, also with NOAAās Northwest Fisheries Science Center and another author of the new study."
"Although early studies suggested that the miscarriages and post-natal mortalities could be directly linked to a shortage of Chinook salmon, those conclusions are being reconsidered, according to Eric Ward, also with NOAAās Northwest Fisheries Science Center and another author of the new study."
ship happens
Crew Member
I was waiting for this. Some crazy scientist's who thinks he can interfere with wild orcas. What a nightmare
āFor wild animals, scientists could increase their genetic variation by encouraging them to interact with other pods. We need to find ways to avoid inbreeding,ā said Zhang, a project scientist at the Institute of Digital Earth at BGI-Research ā a non-profit division of BGI Group, the worldās largest genome research organisation
ziggy
Well-Known Member
You canāt fund raise to stop inbreeding or its results. People understand more food, but they also understand the inbreeding will only continue and get worse. Even the naive understand you canāt buy the whales unrelated partners, so why donate. Best keep blaming it on shortage of food and get the donations rolling in to stop the evil anglers. Notice how quick the salmon abundance report was dismissed by the fundraisers when it concluded the endangered Southerns had more access than the increasing Northerns.
The inbreeding issue is no surprise to anyone who took the time to look at what happened in Penn Cove when all three of the Pods were captured. Six were taken for Amusement Parks and I believe at least four others died. They took what would have been Prime breeding stock! The whales were already in a tough situation due to small numbers, this made it worse.
When I read an ENGO claim that increasing salmon will stop inbreeding, I wonder if even his peers are embarrassed.
The inbreeding issue is no surprise to anyone who took the time to look at what happened in Penn Cove when all three of the Pods were captured. Six were taken for Amusement Parks and I believe at least four others died. They took what would have been Prime breeding stock! The whales were already in a tough situation due to small numbers, this made it worse.
When I read an ENGO claim that increasing salmon will stop inbreeding, I wonder if even his peers are embarrassed.
ship happens
Crew Member
You said it right there, and it doesn't take a PHD to understand that. It's common sense. Take the breeders and wonder why they are imbreeding way higher than normal/acceptable percentages. Which I will conclude in my own study that will effect behaviors in all social and predetorial instincts of these mammals.
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