Sockeye & sea-lice: Coincidence?

[Little Hawk]

With the advent of a banner-year Sockeye run, some are perhaps too quick to dismiss issues affecting wild salmon.

Received this letter today.

Jon
FYI- The lowest levels of sea lice were recorded during the out-migrating sockeye smolt period of this year's record run of sockeye. That year was 2008 when the Pacific Salmon Forum study reported that only 4%--7% of the Chum and Pink salmon fry, tested in the Broughton, were infected with sea lice compared to 2007, where up to 70% were infested. Other data collected in 2008 had sockeye with 1.8 lice per smolt compared to 7-9 lice per smolt tested in 2007 and 2009. In fact, it actually looks like how the salmon farms manage their sea lice, so go our south coast Wild salmon returns. Open net fish farming can hardly be vindicated by this years return, rather the data makes for a good case for the salmon farmers to move to closed containment so we can have Wild Salmon returns like these in the future.

Our association predicted a large return of Sockeye partly due to the low levels of lice in 2008. The data is readily available for anyone to look at and I would be happy to discuss it with you further.

Regards
Paul Kershaw
Area D Gillnetters President
250-752-1508

"Some could care less if there's any fish left for our kids!"

 

[Mi Chica]

It seems obvious that the case has been made for closed containment. Unbiased assessment should make the connection between low sea lice levels and decent returns. This note you have printed confirms that IMHO
Thank you!!!

Too much water, too little time

 

[Last Chance]

So what did they do different?

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

 

[Lipripper]

quote:Originally posted by LastChance

So what did they do different?

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

Heard on CFAX last night that most of the farms on the out migration were fallow.
Was an interesting segment with John Cummings about the Cohen inquiry [xx(]

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by Lipripper

Heard on CFAX last night that most of the farms on the out migration were fallow.
Was an interesting segment with John Cummings about the Cohen inquiry [xx(]

Hmm… I would have to challenge that statement! And say… Wow!!! Who in the world would make that statement? [B)]

To start Marine harvest had severe algae bloom issues during the out migration time period, which killed off a LOT of their fish. Those Atlantic salmon frigg’n died, right during the out migration!
Yep, I guess you could say that is one way to “fallow” a couple of sites. The algae blooms where bad enough, they moved two for the 2008 season!

Then I guess I have to ask… Did someone forget about these inventories?

Broughton
19-Apr-07 486,860
23-May-07 484,936
6-Jun-07 484,417
24-Jul-07 483.277

Chancellor
3-Jul-07 600,572

Cyrus Rocks
17-Apr-07 317,807
14-May-07 317,396 16-May-07 5
25-May-07 317,269
10-Jun-07 317,700
24-Jun-07 317,000

Okisollo
31-Jul-07 443,784

Phillips Arm
4-May-07 666,294

 

[Lipripper]

Think they were talking about 08?

 

[Charlie]

Nope!

But, if they were...I would have to challenge that also! Without boring everyone with all the other numbers, I'll just post one! Have you ever heard of Raynor (Port Hardy)?
17-Apr-08 1,128,141
5-May-08 1,127,464
21-May-08 1,126,498
17-Jun-08 1,120,402
9-Jul-08 1,118,612

Yep, that is millions, that is a LOT of Atlantic salmon at one site! So much for not over-crowding! Think about 1.42 average CHALIMUS sea lice on 20-Sep-08 with 1,080,159 inventory and 2.97 average CHALIMUS sea lice on 15-Oct-08 with an inventory of 736,933? Maybe they reduced their inventory, due to over-crowding and/or potential sea lice problems? Who knows - they won't realease any information or records!

 

[SpringFever2359]

quote:Originally posted by Charlie
Maybe they reduced their inventory, due to over-crowding and/or potential sea lice problems? Who knows - they won't realease any information or records!

the 1.2million would have been a start-up farm(smolts) and in a few short months they split them up to different sites,its what they do...to an average of 3-500 thou. depending on the size(# of pens)of site and area..

 

[Charlie]

There are some companies and people in this world that are interested in one thing, and one thing only! MONEY! Some companies don't care about the environment - they put their Atlantic salmon first, they don’t care about your economy, they don’t your about people, nor do the care about your Pacific salmon… THEY ARE THERE TO MAKE and ONLY WANT YOUR MONEY – it is all about PROFIT! While a lot of good people work for these different companies, it is still the corporate doctrine that is followed! Would highly suggest one research the type of companies they want to support – not because a friend works there and is nice person, but due to corporate doctrines!

I would have to challenge ANYONE who makes the statement Marine Harvest fallows any site(s) during the out migration of any wild smolts during any out migration, just think about the different wild salmon runs out migrating at the different times of the year! Marine Harvest usually “fallows” sites 2-6 months after a harvest, but that is not required… it’s even published on their main website. Based on the information, provided by Marine Harvest Canada - you can see and figure out, when the sites were/are fallow!

Based on the following information published by Marine Harvest, I personally have a hard time with that statement made! And, I do believe based on the information provided – they are diffidently contending with “sea lice” issues

DATE, CHALIMUS, PREADULT ADULT, MALE ADULT, FEMALE (w/o eggs), ADULT FEMALE (with eggs), CALIGUS Avg Motiles, # of fish sampled, Site Inventory, DATE OF Rx (use of SLICE)

Brougham
8-Aug-08 17.70 0.46 0.42 0.05 0.08 0.07 1.02 60 591492 26-Aug-08 2
13-Feb-09 4.85 2.13 0.82 0.35 0.77 5.15 4.07 60 587098 10-Feb-09 5
12-May-10 4.60 0.38 0.07 0.00 0.00 1.30 0.45 60 491912
16-Jun-10 4.65 1.03 0.18 0.03 0.00 1.57 1.25 60 487657
6-Jul-10 4.65 0.85 0.13 0.23 0.02 3.85 1.23 60 486628
19-Jul-10 4.41 0.52 0.43 0.04 0.04 2.03 1.02 300 485948
3-Aug-10 1.20 0.77 0.23 0.28 0.05 2.08 1.33 60 485411 09-Aug-10 2
31-Aug-10 0.03 0.12 0.15 0.03 0.00 0.13 0.30 60 484557rougham


Cyrus Rocks
27-Jul-09 32.38 0.23 0.60 0.10 0.27 12.20 1.20 60 507210 8-Aug-09 3

Doctor Islets
21-Jan-09 4.30 0.32 0.18 0.13 0.18 0.13 0.82 60 573294 12-Jan-09 1.5
21-Feb-09 0.13 0.03 0.05 0.05 0.07 0.02 0.20 60 572645
28-Mar-09 0.00 0.07 0.02 0.00 0.00 0.03 0.08 60 572123
30-Apr-09 0.05 0.02 0.02 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.03 60 571504
16-May-09 0.00 0.07 0.02 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.10 60 571233
17-May-10 1.92 0.45 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.53 0.45 60 492760
29-Jun-10 0.67 0.22 0.07 0.00 0.00 0.08 0.28 60 481550
25-Jul-10 0.05 0.08 0.22 0.07 0.00 0.02 0.37 60 478922
25-Aug-10 0.05 0.02 0.12 0.13 0.00 0.00 0.27 60 478044

Frederick Arm
16-Jun-09 1.13 0.18 0.02 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.20 60 1217277
2-Jul-09 1.02 0.33 0.07 0.02 0.00 0.05 0.42 60 1212630
15-Aug-09 1.28 0.17 0.00 0.00 0.02 0.40 0.18 60 1179812
3-Sep-09 5.83 0.83 0.32 0.00 0.03 1.67 1.18 60 1172649

Phillips Arm
11-Mar-10 9.3 0.13 0.07 0.05 0.00 3.82 0.25 60 394626
22-Apr-10 4.68 0.72 0.25 0.07 0.48 6.58 1.52 60 392238
20-May-10 0.98 0.05 0.30 0.10 0.13 0.65 0.58 60 452008 6-May-10 2
16-Jun-10 0.12 0.05 0.05 0.05 0.02 0.02 0.17 60 449930
1-Jul-10 0.03 0.02 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.02 60 449098
6-Aug-10 0.05 0.02 0.18 0.02 0.00 0.20 0.22 60 447504

Farside
14-Jan-10 0.87 0.10 0.80 0.75 0.18 0.00 1.83 60 341794
7-Feb-10 0.23 0.02 0.32 0.12 0.00 0.10 0.47 60 341515
6-Mar-10 1.23 0.00 0.03 0.07 0.02 0.42 0.12 60 341008
3-Apr-10 0.87 0.05 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.48 0.05 60 340415
6-May-10 2.15 0.10 0.00 0.03 0.00 0.67 0.13 60 340144
5-Jun-10 2.02 0.12 0.05 0.05 0.02 1.00 0.23 60 339634
9-Jul-10 1.65 0.13 0.13 0.10 0.17 0.43 0.53 60 339062
19-Aug-10 0.90 0.37 0.30 0.13 0.60 0.73 1.40 60 338199

Thurlow
8-May-10 1.40 0.12 0.18 0.03 0.00 0.27 0.33 60 464554
15-Jun-10 3.18 0.52 0.40 0.18 0.02 1.13 1.12 60 456856
5-Jul-10 6.27 0.30 0.75 0.23 0.03 2.40 1.32 60 454018
6-Aug-10 0.90 0.45 0.53 0.55 0.05 0.42 1.58 60 453199 8-Aug

Okisollo
17-Mar-09 1.00 0.28 0.10 0.08 0.00 1.38 0.47 60 615737
20-Apr-09 0.43 0.08 0.08 0.05 0.03 0.12 0.25 60 612840
20-May-09 0.52 0.17 0.03 0.02 0.00 0.17 0.22 60 610526
8-Jun-09 0.23 0.20 0.17 0.03 0.02 0.20 0.42 60 609025
16-Jul-09 1.03 0.30 0.18 0.08 0.05 0.02 0.62 60 603572
26-Aug-09 11.33 0.80 0.2 0.05 0.10 5.43 1.15 60 601022
26-Sep-09 1.08 0.97 1.87 1.27 0.40 1.37 4.50 60 600106
October no count sea lice treatment 599524 17-Oct-09 5
9-Nov-09 0.00 0.00 0.30 0.80 0.27 0.07 1.37 60 598527
19-Nov-09 1.03 0.00 0.87 0.22 0.00 0.03 0.65 60 597883
10-Dec-09 1.02 0.00 0.07 0.03 0.00 0.00 0.10 60 596704
8-Jan-10 0.83 0.00 0.05 0.03 0.05 0.02 0.13 60 595111
2-Feb-10 1.38 0.05 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.05 60 594677
3-Mar-10 2.28 0.40 0.03 0.03 0.00 2.35 0.47 60 592935
6-Apr-10 3.02 0.93 0.43 0.48 0.15 1.98 2.00 60 591015
28-Apr-10 2.77 1.18 1.13 0.48 0.57 1.00 3.37 60 590934 2-May-10 4
10-May-10 2.80 0.62 1.77 0.92 1.27 1.12 4.57 60 590537
18-May-10 0.70 0.33 0.80 0.27 0.15 0.18 1.55 60 590537
1-Jun-10 0.00 0.28 0.13 0.17 0.02 0.00 0.60 60 590099
15-Jun-10 0.00 0.00 0.12 0.05 0.02 0.00 0.18 60 589746
2-Jul-10 0.03 0.05 0.03 0.02 0.07 0.00 0.17 60 589348
13-Jul-10 0.72 0.05 0.02 0.05 0.03 0.08 0.15 60 589034
16-Aug-10 0.30 0.02 0.08 0.07 0.02 0.15 0.18 60 534495
31-Aug-10 1.88 0.33 0.28 0.08 0.35 1.53 1.03 40 534004

Lees Bay
6-Feb-10 0.50 0.45 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.72 0.45 60 916719
1-Mar-10 0.27 0.10 0.07 0.02 0.02 0.18 0.20 60 993938
22-Apr-10 0.32 0.65 0.15 0.17 0.00 0.17 0.97 60 985014
12-May-10 1.68 0.57 0.17 0.07 0.00 0.43 0.80 60 980745
27-Jun-10 0.45 0.23 0.25 0.27 0.05 0.88 0.80 60 974303
29-Jul-10 0.12 0.30 0.30 0.13 0.05 0.22 0.78 60 971828
25-Aug-10 0.27 0.15 0.38 0.15 0.08 0.28 0.77 60 971137
Tad bit long for a “grow out”, isn’t it?

Chancellor Channel
19-Feb-10 1.49 0.06 0.03 0.00 0.00 0.79 0.09 80 446450
27-Mar-10 2.05 0.63 0.03 0.02 0.00 1.08 0.68 60 443265
13-Apr-10 3.75 0.20 0.07 0.02 0.00 1.58 0.28 60 442866
12-May-10 1.10 0.05 0.20 0.10 0.03 0.03 0.38 60 440844
7-Jun-10 1.23 0.40 0.47 0.12 0.02 0.83 1.00 60 440261
27-Jul-10 1.53 0.58 0.73 0.10 0.10 0.74 1.50 240 437745
16-Aug-10 0.60 0.36 0.92 0.27 0.21 0.05 1.75 200 437604

Shaw Point
30-Jun-10 1.67 0.02 0.02 0.02 0.00 0.02 0.05 60 400501
28-Jul-10 1.82 0.00 0.03 0.00 0.00 0.33 0.03 60 399925
25-Aug-10 1.50 0.30 0.28 0.10 0.18 0.07 0.87 60 398608

Wicklow
18-May-10 5.58 0.10 0.02 0.00 0.00 0.42 0.12 60 586390
3-Jun-10 4.18 0.95 0.25 0.00 0.00 1.13 1.20 60 581783
11-Jul-10 2.62 0.88 0.25 0.05 0.02 0.17 1.20 60 571964
27-Jul-10 1.76 0.25 0.35 0.23 0.04 0.91 0.88 180 568828
27-Aug-10 0.68 1.27 1.83 0.87 0.40 0.42 4.37 60 566298

Midsummer
24-Oct-09 5.72 1.07 0.33 0.23 0.53 0.43 2.17 60 428988
3-Nov-09 7.02 0.63 1.53 0.40 0.78 3.13 3.34 60 428940 17-Nov-09 4
13-Dec-09 0.07 0.08 0.08 0.03 0.07 0.03 0.27 60 428686
29-Jan-10 0.15 0.07 0.00 0.02 0.02 0.03 0.10 60 428648
28-Feb-10 2.83 0.03 0.02 0.00 0.08 0.23 0.13 60 428296
18-Mar-10 8.30 0.07 0.03 0.00 0.30 0.22 0.40 60 428270
30-Apr-10 5 .30 0.58 0.55 0.43 0.18 7.65 1.75 60 427838
18-May-10 2.55 0.63 0.52 0.30 0.35 4.71 1.85 60 427653 18-May-10 2.5
26-Jun-10 0.05 0.13 0.23 0.10 0.00 0.00 0.47 60 427415
16-Jul-10 0.22 0.03 0.00 0.00 0.02 0.00 0.05 60 426975
22-Aug-10 0.2 0.03 0.05 0.03 0.00 0.17 0.12 60 265843

Glacier Falls
19-Aug-09 0.12 0.02 0.22 0.07 0.00 0.00 0.30 60 420975
3-Sep-09 0.63 0.27 0.05 0.05 0.02 0.00 0.40 60 420604
9-Oct-09 0.30 0.07 1.58 0.85 1.05 0.05 3.55 60 420096
15-Nov-09 3.42 0.62 2.10 0.90 1.63 0.57 5.25 60 419527 17-Nov-09 6
2-Dec-09 3.73 0.07 1.27 0.25 0.65 0.08 2.23 60 419363
3-Jan-10 0.03 0.05 0.02 0.08 0.07 0.00 0.22 60 418853
25-Feb-10 0.03 0.03 0.10 0.08 0.28 0.00 0.50 60 418188
8-Mar-10 1.07 0.05 0.33 0.03 0.08 0.17 0.50 60 418054
19-Apr-10 3.05 0.12 0.12 0.05 0.05 0.32 0.33 60 417308
13-May-10 4.92 0.22 0.32 0.25 0.12 1.77 0.90 60 417039
29-May-10 22.54 0.32 0.26 0.11 0.39 5.39 1.08 60 416715 1-Jun-10 2
12-Jun-10 8.15 0.02 0.15 0.02 0.05 0.85 0.23 60 416364
26-Jul-10 0.03 0.00 0.03 0.00 0.02 0.07 0.05 60 415408
21-Aug-10 0.00 0.02 0.20 0.05 0.00 0.00 0.27 60 414386

Humphrey
13-Jul-09 0.00 0.00 0.01 0.01 0.00 0.00 0.03 80 457070
31-Aug-09 0.01 0.03 0.04 0.01 0.00 0.00 0.08 80 539476
25-Sep-09 0.00 0.18 0.15 0.03 0.00 0.02 0.37 60 539456
31-Oct-09 0.23 0.07 0.20 0.12 0.17 0.00 0.55 60 539006
28-Nov-09 0.37 0.03 0.18 0.10 0.15 0.02 0.47 60 538558 16-Nov-09 1
13-Dec-09 0.08 0.00 0.02 0.02 0.00 0.00 0.03 60 538245
21-Jan-10 0.00 0.03 0.13 0.10 0.13 0.00 0.40 60 537724
3-Feb-10 0.07 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 60 536656
10-Mar-10 0.02 0.10 0.07 0.00 0.02 0.02 0.18 60 534453
14-Apr-10 1.47 0.03 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.02 0.03 60 531398
18-May-10 2.73 0.27 0.20 0.23 0.20 2.00 0.90 60 529479
8-Jun-10 1.72 0.38 0.25 0.15 0.15 1.10 0.93 60 527342
11-Jul-10 0.07 0.08 0.13 0.03 0.23 0.00 0.48 60 524444
22-Aug-10 0.02 0.20 0.05 0.10 0.45 0.00 0.80 60 520280

Sargeaunts Pass
27-Jul-09 0.00 0.01 0.06 0.03 0.00 0.00 0.10 100 873654
24-Aug-09 0.00 0.00 0.02 0.02 0.02 0.00 0.05 80 873288
22-Sep-09 0.05 0.03 0.03 0.08 0.00 0.00 0.15 60 872620
19-Oct-09 0.08 0.02 0.12 0.10 0.02 0.02 0.25 60 872063
14-Nov-09 0.13 0.07 0.03 0.07 0.03 0.17 0.20 60 871427 20-Nov-09 1
19-Dec-09 0.02 0.00 0.02 0.02 0.00 0.00 0.03 60 869450
13-Jan-10 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 60 865872
25-Feb-10 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.02 0.00 60 860966
13-Mar-10 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.05 0.00 60 860206
17-Apr-10 0.78 0.02 0.03 0.00 0.00 0.02 0.05 60 857203
5-May-10 1.62 0.17 0.05 0.00 0.05 0.07 0.27 60 856851
11-Jun-10 0.08 0.03 0.10 0.02 0.05 0.05 0.20 60 852410
16-Jul-10 0.00 0.10 0.00 0.02 0.12 0.00 0.23 60 849647
13-Aug-10 0.00 0.05 0.00 0.05 0.02 0.00 0.12 60 761836
Another extremely long ‘grow out’

Port Elizabeth
29-Aug-10 0.03 0.10 0.10 0.13 0.03 0.00 0.37 60 449100

Potts Bay
20-Feb-09 0.15 0.20 0.23 0.08 0.02 0.00 0.53 40 28173 26-Jan-09 3
21-Mar-09 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 40 17554
10-Apr-09 0.12 0.08 0.03 0.02 0.02 0.00 0.15 60 17526
1-May-09 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 20 16335
27-Jun-09 0.05 0.00 0.03 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.03 40 16609
31-Jul-09 0.30 0.28 0.05 0.13 0.00 0.25 0.45 40 13282
20-Aug-09 1.80 0.20 0.18 0.08 0.03 0.10 0.48 40 13265
September no count
4-Oct-09 0.90 0.93 0.85 0.73 0.35 0.00 2.85 40 13212
12-Nov-09 1.65 0.13 1.80 1.75 4.33 0.20 8.00 40 13107
1-Dec-09 10.70 8.15 6.65 1.30 6.45 4.20 22.55 20 13071 13-Dec-09 23
11-Jan-10 0.04 0.05 0.19 0.16 0.05 0.00 0.45 80 12876
27-Apr-10 9.70 0.25 0.00 0.00 0.00 2.15 0.25 20 19702
26-May-10 1.33 0.18 0.00 0.08 0.00 0.38 0.25 40 19590
30-Jun-10 2.28 0.13 0.18 0.03 0.00 0.70 0.33 40 18573
15-Jul-10 1.50 0.02 0.05 0.00 0.00 0.13 0.07 40 18491
18-Aug-10 0.60 0.00 0.08 0.13 0.00 0.13 0.20 40 17479

Swanson
30-Jul-10 0.00 0.03 0.02 0.00 0.00 0.03 0.05 60 509972
20-Aug-10 0.33 0.00 0.07 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.07 60 509729

They CAN NOT and "YOU" CAN NOT let them continue this 'shell game' - it will destroy the British Columbia's wild Pacific Salmon, just as it has everywhere else in the WORLD! Friends working are not - Do some research!
http://www.marineharvestcanada.com/farming_fish_health_MHC_ALL_Farms.php

 

[adrianna3]

So, Charlie, where do all the Atlantic salmon smolts (or juveniles) come from to stock all these net pens?
Do they come from hatcheries around here? Where is the brood stock? Are they private hatcheries owned by the net pen companies?
Are they government subsidized?

It would sure be nice if the hatcheries could crank out native Pacific salmon (and steelhead) at the rates they make Atlantic salmon.

 

[Little Hawk]

A3: They do farm Chinook's & Coho (in the past mostly) but Atlantics' are the fish of choice for the large feedlots. If memory serves, it's because they grow faster. Perhaps somebody else can chime-in with more on this.

As far as eggs go, one of the grave concerns about this industry is the importation of diseased eggs from other countries; it's one of the worst transmission vectors of lethal/contagious salmon virus's.

"Some could care less if there's any fish left for our kids!"

 

[sockeyefry]

LH

Yep mostly atlantics. Yes they gow faster, but also they are easier to grow from the smolt stage to harvest. Pacifics are easier to rear in FW, but tend to not do as well, and have problems in the SW phase when grown in farms. What I find funny is that the Pacifics will out compete Atlantics in a natural setting. This has been demonstrated over and over. When atlantics and pacifics are introduced into an area it is the pacifics which take hold and not the atlantics. As examples, I submit the great lakes.

With regard to egg importation, the companies in BC have a closed cycle. That is they produce eggs from purpose reared brood fish. There does not exist the need for the importation of eggs from a numbers standpoint, they produce all they need internally. The only reason that a company might consider importation is a belief that a different strain might be better. However, recent imports of eggs from Iceland have not proven to be better. I think that there should be an outright ban on all egg imports into BC. The risk is too great that an exotic disease will be introduced.

 

[adrianna3]

Thank you Rob. LittleHawk has not understood my questions. Namely: Where are the hatcheries for Atlantic salmon? and Where do they get the brood stock from? They must be massive to pump out that many fish on such a regular basis.

 

[sockeyefry]

AH

Grieg Seafoods operates a large hatchery at the old pulp mill site in Gold River. This hatchery along with Target Marine Hatchery in Sechelt supply all the smolt to Grieg's marine farms

Mainstream has hatcheries at Boot Lagoon near Port Alberni, Ocean at Duncan, and Little Bear Bay

Marine Harvest have many hatcheries, some are shut down due to over capacity when Stolt, Pmega and Marine Harvest merged a few years ago. They operate hatcheries at Sayward, Ocean Falls, Rosewall down in Fanny Bay area, They have a couple of lake cagesites at Georgie and Victoria lake.

The companies hatcheries operate on production schedules which enable them to put out the required numbers. Actually the existing hatchery capacity is in excess of the amount requird by marine sites.

Each company grows its own brood stock. Marine Harvest has started a brood progranm entirely in freshwater. Grieg is in the process of constructing this type of facilty. This means that brood fish will be grown from egg to maturation entirely in freshwater in recirculation facilities. They will not be exposed to any diseases which exist in SW. One thing you all should realize is that the technology employed to rear brood fish could also be used to rear market fish entirely in FW and on land.

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by sockeyefry

AH

Grieg Seafoods operates a large hatchery at the old pulp mill site in Gold River. This hatchery along with Target Marine Hatchery in Sechelt supply all the smolt to Grieg's marine farms

Mainstream has hatcheries at Boot Lagoon near Port Alberni, Ocean at Duncan, and Little Bear Bay

Marine Harvest have many hatcheries, some are shut down due to over capacity when Stolt, Pmega and Marine Harvest merged a few years ago. They operate hatcheries at Sayward, Ocean Falls, Rosewall down in Fanny Bay area, They have a couple of lake cagesites at Georgie and Victoria lake.

The companies hatcheries operate on production schedules which enable them to put out the required numbers. Actually the existing hatchery capacity is in excess of the amount requird by marine sites.

Each company grows its own brood stock. Marine Harvest has started a brood progranm entirely in freshwater. Grieg is in the process of constructing this type of facilty. This means that brood fish will be grown from egg to maturation entirely in freshwater in recirculation facilities. They will not be exposed to any diseases which exist in SW. One thing you all should realize is that the technology employed to rear brood fish could also be used to rear market fish entirely in FW and on land.

Yep!
Grieg is now in process of trying to set the facility up in (corrected to read) Port "ALBERNI"!

quote: This means that brood fish will be grown from egg to maturation entirely in freshwater in recirculation facilities. They will not be exposed to any diseases which exist in SW. One thing you all should realize is that the technology employed to rear brood fish could also be used to rear market fish entirely in FW and on land.

But, you got me with this statement?
That technology has exsisted for quite some time - YEARS! Not only aren't the Atlantic salmon NOT exposed to disease, but they don't expose the Pacific to disease... Why the change of heart??

 

[adrianna3]

Thank you for answering my questions. Very informative.
Like I say, too bad we can't crank out native species like that in our hatcheries. It just takes money.

 

[Bassblaster]

Sorry for my ignorance on this issue but I'm wondering why people always seem to find a reason to play god with nature. After reading all the posts on this site regarding salmon farming it seems evident that the issue is not fish farming, but which fish is being farmed.

Why not petition government to allow the farming, but only for native species? This would solve all of the problems.

Local species farmed in their native habitat would eliminate the issues of escaped invasive species and imported non-native disease and viral issues.

You want to farm fish in the pacific? then farm native pacific species. If it takes longer, or is more expensive, then make the decision to charge more for the finished product or shut the business down. I understand that these people are in this to make money, but there comes a point when you either work with mother nature or she works against you. If Salmon aren't profitable to raise, then find another species that is fast growing, native, and that can develop a supporting consumer demand.

Nature will give you everything you need to make a system work, yet we seem hell-bent to try and force things to how we want them rather than what makes ecological sense. so to recap,

Native fish farming would:
Eliminate risk of invasive species.
Eliminate the risk of transferred disease.
Allow farms to get eggs and fry from existing hatchery facilities supporting existing infrastructure and maintaining jobs.
Escaped fish would simply be absorbed by the local environment.

Why is this so difficult to see?

Oh, and why is a species NOT considered invasive if we decide that we want it there as opposed to what mother nature intended?

Extinction is Forever

 

[sockeyefry]

Charlie,

Are you sure it is Grieg in Port Angeles?

And yes you are right, the tech has been around for at least 20 years. Continued improvement over the last 5 - 10 years have made it more viable. It used to be thought tht you could not get a salmon to grow to a marketable size entirely in FW, that they needed SW to grow larger than a few hundred grams. The problem has always been the cost. However, with improvements, this may not be as big an issue as it once was. Another issue is qualified personnel. A cage site is not as technical, andtherefore is easier for less qualified people to operate. It's low cost allows for mistakes to be made, and for low stocking densities. A Recirc system is very technical in nature, and requires someone capable of getting every ounce of production out of the facility or it is not finanacially viable. There is no room for error. I know of a few attempts in the works right now in BC to do pilot projects. The people doing these projects should be aware that if they do not select the right system or people to run it, they could cause the wrong conclusion due to incompetent management or poor system design. There are alot of posers out there.

 

[sockeyefry]

Charlie,

Are you sure it is Grieg in Port Angeles?

And yes you are right, the tech has been around for at least 20 years. Continued improvement over the last 5 - 10 years have made it more viable. It used to be thought tht you could not get a salmon to grow to a marketable size entirely in FW, that they needed SW to grow larger than a few hundred grams. The problem has always been the cost. However, with improvements, this may not be as big an issue as it once was. Another issue is qualified personnel. A cage site is not as technical, andtherefore is easier for less qualified people to operate. It's low cost allows for mistakes to be made, and for low stocking densities. A Recirc system is very technical in nature, and requires someone capable of getting every ounce of production out of the facility or it is not finanacially viable. There is no room for error. I know of a few attempts in the works right now in BC to do pilot projects. The people doing these projects should be aware that if they do not select the right system or people to run it, they could cause the wrong conclusion due to incompetent management or poor system design. There are alot of posers out there.

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by sockeyefry

Charlie,

Are you sure it is Grieg in Port Angeles?

Oops... sorry! Typo – corrected, should be Port Alberni!

quote:Originally posted by Bassblaster

After reading all the posts on this site regarding salmon farming it seems evident that the issue is not fish farming, but which fish is being farmed.

Why not petition government to allow the farming, but only for native species? This would solve all of the problems.

Actually it is not which fish is being farmed; it is how they are being farmed! I personally have no problem with aquaculture – when done right! However, I do specifically have problems with philosophies of “certain” companies, how “certain” companies are being ran, “certain” companies disregard for environment, “certain” companies disregard for wild salmon, and very much disagree with the use of “open net” pens!

Then my other personal issue is Canada’s failure to disclose information, sees no value in Pacific salmon, and aren’t willing to either provide information or instill any proper procedures to protect the wild salmon.

Other than that – I don’t think I have any problems with any Atlantic “fish farms”!

If the all the fish farms were to suddenly switch to Pacific salmon, under present philosophies and operations with “ net pens”, you probably would get the “Extinction is Forever”! It is “NOT “the Atlantic salmon that is, or should be the issue; it is the way companies are in complete disregard of environmental issues and having “open net” pens on the migration routes! If every Atlantic salmon fish farmer in BC were to currently start raising Pacific salmon in those open net pens, unless those “farmed Pacific salmon” were “STERILE” it would be devastating to the wild runs.

If it were to happen, the first thing you would have is the unregulated and uncontrolled aquaculture industry introducing different genetic stocks trying to increase their yield (profits) and exposing their altered genetic stocks to wild salmon. That would be very invasive to wild stocks. Then the elimination risk of transferring disease wouldn’t change, as that cannot be done under current practices with open net pens, period! BTW… The diseases in the Pacific salmon (at this time) are diseases of the Pacific salmon. It is the concentration of those diseases in the open net pens that are allowing the transfer from wild to farmed, then from farmed to wild. Be it Pacific or Atlantic salmon in those pens, the end will be the same. The wild will die! Most fish farms currently get eggs and fry from existing hatchery facilities in BC, so what little support of any existing infrastructure and maintaining jobs won’t change. There are very few eggs brought in, and ABSOLUTELY NO fry or smolts! And that is NOT to protect the wild salmon… it is to protect the Atlantic salmon “fish farms” mostly from the disease ISA!

Escaped fish wouldn’t be simply absorbed by the local environment and I give that one a big NO! NO! It doesn’t work that way! WE have proven that through our past hatchery (enhancement) mistakes, especially here in Puget Sound! There has been so much learned in recent years, it is a wonder we didn’t eliminate them all here in Puget Sound and indeed most of our wild are “Extinct forever”, through OUR mismanagement. The hatchery (enhancement) programs are monitored very closely due to those past mistakes and problems. It is not only the possibility of transferring diseases, but genetics. Then even the genetically correct hatchery smolts must be introduced to the wild environment correctly. If that is not very correctly controlled – it could, would, and will be more devastating on the wild salmon than any Atlantic fish salmon! And, yes I do believe that as long as both are raised in “open net” pens. That is the recipe for disaster! The key is… GET ALL FISH FARMS – OUT OF THE MIGRATION ROUTES AND ON LAND!

I suggest reading the following study before anyone recommends any “increase” of Pacific salmon farming in BC, as you do currently have Pacific salmon being farmed in open net pens. In Canada, Creative Salmon, Grieg Seafood, and a few others produce Pacific Salmon species.
http://www.creativesalmon.com/index.html
http://hugin.info/138681/R/1213109/252131.pdf

Remember the study was done in 2000, over ten years ago and enhancement policies and procedures have changed drastically for the good during that time period, but pay particular attention to this statement:
“Escaped farm Pacific salmon pose a greater potential risk given their ability to breed and interact with wild and hatchery salmon. The limited data available preclude an in-depth assessment although it is likely that potential interactions would be localized to areas near the point of the escape. The scale of salmon enhancement activities in both Canada and the United States would suggest a far greater risk to wild stocks from salmon enhancement operations.”
http://foodweb.uhh.hawaii.edu/MARE 399V/Salmon.pdf