Sockeye fishery breaks all time top 5.

[OldBlackDog]

As of Sept. 10, commercial fishermen across Alaska have landed 198.4 million salmon of all five species, about 8 percent less than the preseason forecast of 213.2 million.


https://www.alaskajournal.com/2019-09-11/sockeye-harvest-breaks-all-time-top-5-pinks-picking

 

[Stephen Kowalski]

As of Sept. 10, commercial fishermen across Alaska have landed 198.4 million salmon of all five species, about 8 percent less than the preseason forecast of 213.2 million.


https://www.alaskajournal.com/2019-09-11/sockeye-harvest-breaks-all-time-top-5-pinks-picking

Wow. Let's shut down our fish farms and start salmon ranching like the good old USA. Does anybody think the food supply for all these rancher fish might ever run out? Yep, Port Alberti has no sockeye this year, but all time record in Alaska. Let's post another fake photo of smolts with sea lice (we should keep using it the same aquarium photo - no one will ever catch on). Hurrah for the USA - they have screwed us in Canada and now Trudeau will ban all rec. fishing. Why is it that we are not way more alarmed about this?

 

[Birdsnest]

Wow. Let's shut down our fish farms and start salmon ranching like the good old USA. Does anybody think the food supply for all these rancher fish might ever run out? Yep, Port Alberti has no sockeye this year, but all time record in Alaska. Let's post another fake photo of smolts with sea lice (we should keep using it the same aquarium photo - no one will ever catch on). Hurrah for the USA - they have screwed us in Canada and now Trudeau will ban all rec. fishing. Why is it that we are not way more alarmed about this?

There is no alarm about Alaska salmon ranching because there is no money to be made by activists to combat it. Sea lice photos aren't fake but they are hand picked to instal fear. Yay USA! you're killing it.

 

[fogged in]

There is no alarm about Alaska salmon ranching because there is no money to be made by activists to combat it. Sea lice photos aren't fake but they are hand picked to instal fear. Yay USA! you're killing it.

How many Open Net Pen Atlantic Salmon Fish Farms are their in Alaska?
AND oh ya...the Fish Farm propaganda machine says we need Fish Farms to feed the world.

 

[Birdsnest]

How many Open Net Pen Atlantic Salmon Fish Farms are their in Alaska?
AND oh ya...the Fish Farm propaganda machine says we need Fish Farms to feed the world.

Alaska: They don't have salmon farms where feed consumptions and its components are quantifiable.

All they know is what comes back$$, thus my comments suggesting "mininnig The pacific of protein."

please think outside the box a bit.

 

[fogged in]

Alaska: They don't have salmon farms where feed consumptions and its components are quantifiable.
All they know is what comes back$$, thus my comments suggesting "mininnig The pacific of protein."
please think outside the box a bit.

Not sure what you are suggesting "please think outside the box a bit."
The fact of the matter, as I see it, is there are better ways to provide salmon for human consumption as demonstrated by the Sockeye returns to Alaska.
There is NO DENYING the Fish Farm Sea Lice problem is out of hand and results in the death of Wild Salmon.
The problem with other disease and virus's is an ongoing debate and Fish Farm supporters will debate it ad nausiam.
And as far as mining protein, Fish Farms do that and more with their feed requirements and their harvesting of krill.
"Estimates indicate that farming salmon requires anywhere from two to four kilograms of wild fish to produce one kilogram of farmed fish."
Please see examples of diseased Fish Farm Atlantic Salmon which you will not find in Alaska!!

 

[Stephen Kowalski]

Not sure what you are suggesting "please think outside the box a bit."
The fact of the matter, as I see it, is there are better ways to provide salmon for human consumption as demonstrated by the Sockeye returns to Alaska.
There is NO DENYING the Fish Farm Sea Lice problem is out of hand and results in the death of Wild Salmon.
The problem with other disease and virus's is an ongoing debate and Fish Farm supporters will debate it ad nausiam.
And as far as mining protein, Fish Farms do that and more with their feed requirements and their harvesting of krill.
"Estimates indicate that farming salmon requires anywhere from two to four kilograms of wild fish to produce one kilogram of farmed fish."
Please see examples of diseased Fish Farm Atlantic Salmon which you will not find in Alaska!!
View attachment 47930

View attachment 47931

Great photos. Seem them all before. No need to recycle old stuff. I guess you have no concern over how the USA is using the ocean as its own personal ranch. Nope. It is all about fish farms. Please. Tell me what percentage of salmon return to their rivers in Alaska? I wonder if we are way less? I don't know, but I bet some of you have the stats. If 1.0M fish return out of a possible 100M vs 200K out of a possible 5M, which system is better? Gross numbers are irrelevant. As well, all the salmon head to the same feeding grounds and compete. Not so good if we are not playing by the same rules. Man, we are fighting each other while the house is burning down. Looking forward to never being able to fish again and eating the made in USA salmon

 

[GDW]

There was nothing about salmon ranching in the OP’s article.

 

[fogged in]

"As well, all the salmon head to the same feeding grounds and compete."

Hey Stephen, for a new member you sound an awful lot like some of the old Fish Farm guys who love the debate and defend their industry vehemently.
Sockeye’s main diet is zooplankton and your Farmed Atlantic Salmon’s main diet is Fish Meal.
No doubt you know that!
.

 

[Stephen Kowalski]

"As well, all the salmon head to the same feeding grounds and compete."

Hey Stephen, for a new member you sound an awful lot like some of the old Fish Farm guys who love the debate and defend their industry vehemently.
Sockeye’s main diet is zooplankton and your Farmed Atlantic Salmon’s main diet is Fish Meal.
No doubt you know that!
.

Hmm... didn't take you very long to label me as a fish farm guy. Should I label you as a paid activist supported by American money? Just silly. Look, I really want to know why Alaska is having a record year for salmon. All you will say is fish farms fish farms fish farms. Guess what, that probably is at best a peripheral contributor. Have you heard of salmon ranching? Are they flooding the system with ten times as many sockeye as we are? Do our sockeye compete with ranched sockeye from Alaska for the same food source? Love to blame this on a warm blob, but looking like southern states also having a great sockeye year. If no one has any ideas, blame Trudeau. Maybe Trump is better for salmon. If we don't fix it, we can swap stories about the good old days when we fished for salmon.

 

[agentaqua]

being as tho the stocked salmon/ocean productivity issue would potentially affect all stocks (BC & AK) that coinhabitat the Pacific - not seeing where that would be a likely culprit in the discussion of why AK stocks are doing well where BC stocks (esp. sockeye) are in the tank at least this year.

I believe the likely culprit is some combination of the blob & global warming for that large of a geographic area.

Superimposed onto that - fish farm effects (lice, diseases) could be having an additional effect - likely on a smaller, spottier scale.

The latest science posted by GLG at: https://www.sportfishingbc.com/foru...n-infected-by-newly-discovered-viruses.76693/ has some interesting maps on the prevalence of some new disease vectors.

 

[fogged in]

Hmm... didn't take you very long to label me as a fish farm guy. Should I label you as a paid activist supported by American money? Just silly. Look, I really want to know why Alaska is having a record year for salmon. All you will say is fish farms fish farms fish farms. Guess what, that probably is at best a peripheral contributor. Have you heard of salmon ranching? Are they flooding the system with ten times as many sockeye as we are? Do our sockeye compete with ranched sockeye from Alaska for the same food source? Love to blame this on a warm blob, but looking like southern states also having a great sockeye year. If no one has any ideas, blame Trudeau. Maybe Trump is better for salmon. If we don't fix it, we can swap stories about the good old days when we fished for salmon.

You are welcome to label me an anti Net Pen Atlantic Fish Farm guy!
The subject of Wild Pacific Coast Salmon is complex and their are no easy fixes.
My point is for you to suggest Alaska Sockeye are competing for food and causing our runs of salmon to decline is highly improbable.
The possible lack of adequate food for our other then Sockeye Wild Salmon would best lie at the hands of the Herring Fishery and the Fish Farm harvesting food for their needs.
If you want to give me a choice between Fish Ranching or Hatcheries which we need more of and Net Pens, I'll take hatcheries any time!!!

 

[wildmanyeah]

Sockeye to my knowledge are not ranched as the cost to doing it is expensive, Chum and pink are ranched do to the small input cost. However what I don't like about the ranching process is they grow chum and pinks in net pens. So when they do get out to the feeding grounds they have a significant advantage.

Sockeye in Alaska are doing well because the Bering sea temperature is about 4C higher than typical turning it in to ideal rearing habitat for sockeye. Bristol Bay sockeye have easy access to these grounds as they are right at its doorstep. So by the time some southern stocks that go that north reach there and sockeye seem to be having to go more north because of the blob. This issue is exacerbated but warmer then average temperatures and shorter winters causing their sockeye smolts to head to the ocean earlier in the year then typical. The ones that migrate from the south have a significant disadvantage.

As Bering Sea ice melts, Alaskans, scientists and Seattle's fishing fleet witness changes 'on a massive scale'

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sns-tns-bc-fisheries-bering-sea-20190918-story.html

Preliminary NOAA survey suggests ‘low abundance year’ for king salmon

https://www.alaskapublic.org/2019/0...-suggests-low-abundance-year-for-king-salmon/

“We’re clearly seeing movement of Bristol Bay and Southern Bering Sea stocks that generally don’t come up this far north. We’re seeing a lot of them come up north. We’re still catching a lot of salmon: a lot of pinks, a lot of chum, lots of sockeye, and they’re growing very well. So, there’s no real evidence to suggest there’s a lack of prey for them.”"

 

[agentaqua]

Thanks for adding depth and detail to the conversation, WMY. I agree w your comments, and thanks for those links.

To be clear - I wasn't necessarily claiming that sockeye were ocean-ranched at a large scale - but rather that the implications of reaching a maximum capacity wrt ocean productivity through excessive stock enhancement (esp. pinks & chums) would likely reflect on stocks that coinhabitat the Pacific - incl. both AK & BC stocks.

The competitor wrt zooplankton food sources for sockeye is often thought to be pink salmon - and maybe chum. So, increases in pink production are thought to negatively affect sockeye productivity. Coho and Chinook are assumed to be more piscivorous (fish-eating) altho coho often also take zooplankton - esp. crab larvae/zoea/Megalopa.

I appreciate your comments wrt the blob and global warming, as well. I think you nailed the issue.I think the occasional denier might have difficulty absorbing the implications inherent in the Bering Sea ice melting link you provided.

The other part of the conversation not yet discussed is how the blob affected/affects prevailing winds and downwelling/upwelling near the shore - and how that affects plankton quantity and quality.

 

[Stephen Kowalski]

Sockeye to my knowledge are not ranched as the cost to doing it is expensive, Chum and pink are ranched do to the small input cost. However what I don't like about the ranching process is they grow chum and pinks in net pens. So when they do get out to the feeding grounds they have a significant advantage.

Sockeye in Alaska are doing well because the Bering sea temperature is about 4C higher than typical turning it in to ideal rearing habitat for sockeye. Bristol Bay sockeye have easy access to these grounds as they are right at its doorstep. So by the time some southern stocks that go that north reach there and sockeye seem to be having to go more north because of the blob. This issue is exacerbated but warmer then average temperatures and shorter winters causing their sockeye smolts to head to the ocean earlier in the year then typical. The ones that migrate from the south have a significant disadvantage.

As Bering Sea ice melts, Alaskans, scientists and Seattle's fishing fleet witness changes 'on a massive scale'

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sns-tns-bc-fisheries-bering-sea-20190918-story.html

Preliminary NOAA survey suggests ‘low abundance year’ for king salmon

https://www.alaskapublic.org/2019/0...-suggests-low-abundance-year-for-king-salmon/

“We’re clearly seeing movement of Bristol Bay and Southern Bering Sea stocks that generally don’t come up this far north. We’re seeing a lot of them come up north. We’re still catching a lot of salmon: a lot of pinks, a lot of chum, lots of sockeye, and they’re growing very well. So, there’s no real evidence to suggest there’s a lack of prey for them.”"

Wish that were the case, but sadly they ranch sockeye as well. Maybe this doesn't bother you anti-FF guys, but it should. This isn't a commentary on FF's (although I think they can be managed and are certainly a viable industry) but more I am surprised that we seem to have no concern over this. Last year, 4 Billion smolts were put into the ranching program. 18 million went into the fish farms. When this sucker crashes because the oceans can only feed so many fish, it will be bad bad bad. If we chop down the trees faster than we can replace them, pretty soon we don't have any trees. BTW, states like Washington and Oregon view the ranching system as an equivalent evil to salmon farms. However, it seems we just spend all the time and effort to shut them down, all the while ignoring what is happening on our doorstep.

Only reason I made the comment is when someone posted an Alaskan harvest update, it was immediately derailed into a "FF's are bad" thread. Also, we make Alaskan salmon so much more valuable by allowing them to label it as wild were our farmed salmon is discounted. Maybe Canada should start ranching as fast as possible so we can grab a piece of this cake before it is gone.

Commercial salmon harvest in Alaska, 1900–2015. The 2013 salmon season was a state record harvest overall, with a commercial harvest of 283 million fish. The 2015 season was second at 264 million fish.

Also from the same article:

The 2013 salmon season was a record harvest overall, with the 283 million fish commercial harvest comprised of the second highest catch for wild stocks (176 million fish) and the highest catch for hatchery stocks (107 million fish). The 2015 salmon season was the second highest harvest overall, with a 264 million fish commercial harvest comprised of the third highest catch for wild stocks (170 million fish) and the second highest catch for hatchery stocks (93 million fish). The hatchery harvests alone in both 2013 and 2015 were greater than the entire statewide commercial salmon harvest in every year prior to statehood except for 7 years (1918, 1926, 1934, 1936, 1937, 1938 and 1941).

Species composition of 2015 Alaska hatchery exvessel commercial harvest, with the value by species, and the percent of the total hatchery value for each species. About 93 million salmon were harvested in the commercial fisheries in 2015, worth an estimated exvessel value of $125 million. Pink salmon comprised 47% of the total value, followed by chum salmon (31%), and sockeye salmon (17%)

 

[Stephen Kowalski]

You are welcome to label me an anti Net Pen Atlantic Fish Farm guy!
The subject of Wild Pacific Coast Salmon is complex and their are no easy fixes.
My point is for you to suggest Alaska Sockeye are competing for food and causing our runs of salmon to decline is highly improbable.Why? What evidence do you possible have to make this statement? Love to learn if you have it.
The possible lack of adequate food for our other then Sockeye Wild Salmon would best lie at the hands of the Herring Fishery and the Fish Farm harvesting food for their needs. Same food supply for Alaskan sockeye, but there ranched fish seem to have no problem eating. Help me understand that.
If you want to give me a choice between Fish Ranching or Hatcheries which we need more of and Net Pens, I'll take hatcheries any time!!! I guess you made my point. Support our American friends up North and shut down everything in Canada. Good for you. Keep up the good work. When we have jack squat left in Canada and they double there harvest from 250M/year to 500M/year, maybe then you might see why I am asking the question.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Yes they use hatcheries for sockeye but I don't believe they ranch sockeye. Ranching involves hatcheries and net pens.

https://seawestnews.com/fact-checking-fin-on-alaskan-salmon-ranching/

I have also said that hatchery/ranching production is something that needs to be negotiated in the PST and North Pacific Anadromous Fish Commission

Also this is the first time i've been labeled an Anti fish farm guy.

 

[Birdsnest]

What i find interesting is the low point in harvest rates is followed by intense hatchery production all the while wild harvest increased as well similar to historic high levels. This in a way suggest there is minimal effect from hatchery production on AK's wild harvest. This is the wrong data to be drawing any such conclusions from IMO.

 

[Stephen Kowalski]

Yes they use hatcheries for sockeye but I don't believe they ranch sockeye. Ranching involves hatcheries and net pens.

https://seawestnews.com/fact-checking-fin-on-alaskan-salmon-ranching/

I have also said that hatchery/ranching production is something that needs to be negotiated in the PST and North Pacific Anadromous Fish Commission

Also this is the first time i've been labeled an Anti fish farm guy.

Fair enough. Wasn't actually out to label anyone - more just trying to understand how we get control of this genie. Alaskan government refers to sockeye farming so assumed it is what they labeled. Maybe it is just a flooding of the system with smolts, either way, it feels like the system is being tested by fire. When is too much too much?

 

[wildmanyeah]