SFI-Halibut Update

[Derby]

HALIBUT UPDATE
WE WILL BE FISHING....

While we are extremely angry with DFO's short sighted decision not to amend the halibut allocation formula, rest assured we will be fishing this year.



Information we have received from DFO is that anglers and the hundreds of businesses that support them should expect to operate with a similar season as 2010. Specifically, a season that runs into the fall and with possession limits of 1 per day, 2 in possession. We are hearing "like last year" in the halls at DFO.



We will continue to fight Ottawa's continuing neglect of the sport fishery, but in the meantime our advice to anglers is continue to "go fishing!" But please remember that we need you to write letters, phone MPs and give us your much needed support. Our fight with Ottawa is by no means over. In fact, it has just begun!!!



The Minister also made announcements around the new public permit system for 2011 and the long term solutions. We see these as two approaches.



2011:

The short term looks challenging for DFO as they will try create a system in which the public can purchase or lease additional access. We are waiting to see the details and we will take the time to review their suggestions. Our Fisheries Committee will welcome your perspectives and will work towards recommendations for a sector-wide approach. We would not encourage anyone to jump into this new system until we fully understand its future implications.



2012:

We will work diligently in every planning and consultation process to develop the kinds of plans that we feel the sector needs for 2012 and beyond.



In the meantime we encourage you to get back to your sales, sell with confidence and let us do the tedious committee work. It's hard, frustrating and there are days when we want to throw a chair through the window. But we still need your help. Make your opinions on this matter known, participate in our actions and come to the town hall meetings.



An election is in the wind and MP's will want to know if anglers will roll over or stand up and keep fighting!



Your Team at the SFI.





More details on the Halibut town hall meetings please visit www.bchalibut.org






NEWS RELEASE (click link for full page version)


For Immediate ReleaseFebruary 15, 2011
B.C. Sportfishing Coalition


SPORT FISHERS SLAM HALIBUT PLAN



RICHMOND - The B.C. Sportfishing Coalition panned Fisheries Minister Gail Shea's plan for the 2011 recreational halibut fishery. "Minister Shea and Conservative MPs in B.C. have abandoned recreational anglers and sided with a small group of well-connected commercial quota holders," said coalition spokesperson Rob Alcock. "The decision to leave the halibut allocation policy unchanged will punish recreational anglers, the businesses that support them, and the thousands of people who are employed in sport fishing in the province."



In 2003, former Fisheries Minister Robert Thibault allocated 88% of Canada's Total Allowable Catch (TAC) of halibut to 436 commercial quota holders and allocated 12% to the province's 100,000 recreational halibut anglers. Recreational anglers have long opposed the policy and argued that it privatizes Canada's common-property halibut resource.



Since 2003, recreational anglers have faced shortened seasons and a 50% reduction in catch limits. During the same period, commercial halibut quota became a tradable commodity and in 2010 less than half of the 436 commercial quota holders actually fished their catch. The rest simply leased out their rights and collected royalty cheques. Amazingly, while DFO claims that the commercial fishery is accountable, DFO staff now acknowledge that they do not know who actually owns the 436 commercial quotas that control 88% of Canada's halibut TAC.



"Shea's suggestion that individual anglers can now seek to lease quota from commercial quota holders is confirmation of her view that Canada's halibut resource is private property owned by the lucky few," said Alcock. "Over the past two months, recreational anglers have held meetings, written letters and sought the support of B.C.'s Conservative MPs. I expect they will remember this decision when those MP's look to anglers for support in the coming months," said Alcock.

-30-




Statement by Gail Shea, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans

 

[Deewar25]

how can they be saying now we will run into the fall if they were saying before we would fill our quota by august 15 on a 1/2?? The 1 month delay will at best extend the summer season a week to 10 days IMH...we will likely be shut down by September 1st at the latest will we not?

 

[Tips Up]

with no accurate numbers, how can we be shut down at all?...dec 31st is the close of the season....holmes*

This is part of the issue that I am unclear on. I have been an avid hali fisherman for close to 10 years and have NEVER had my catch checked at the dock while hali fishing.
The limited details that I have on how they calculate our catch show it as a total guess. Number of boats on the water on a given day x guesstimated catch per boat x number of days in the season...

It seems to me that the catch by lodges is limited to a few months in the back half of the season and the South Island Recreational catch is limited to the days with good tides and good weather that we can get on the water and most of us fishing around jobs so limited to weekends. So weekends in a month with good tides and good weather maybe 2 weekends per month?

Possibly and probably we are within our 12%.

So how can our season be closed at anytime based on a poorly guestimated catch?
How could we be expected to pay for more access when we have no clear idea that we have even reached our 12%?

Can anyone clarify for me how DFO actually comes to this number?
And how much discussion is built around this issue?

Thanks
Tips

 

[Tips Up]

BTT
Hoping someone can give me some answers to my questions above.
I am interested in how the recreational halibut catch is calculated.
Gov?

Thanks
Tips

 

[cuttlefish]

Can anyone clarify for me how DFO actually comes to this number?
And how much discussion is built around this issue?

Thanks
Tips

Think; "Blindfold, dart and dart board".

 

[Lipripper]

Think; "Blindfold, dart and dart board".

X2 ..... been told in convos with ppl "in the know"(not the ground troops) that they have no f'n clue what sporties catch.... to use exact words.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Tips Up; there is absolutely no possible way that they truley know how many Halibut are actually taken by sport fishermen. Their data is based upon an extrapolation of an estimate of the fish caught per angler based on a plane flying in the air that counts the number of boats in an area and then estimate how many of those boats are fishing for halibut, and then estimate how many anglers on each boat, and then estimate how many onboard those boats have lisences and are fishing for halibut, and then estimate how big all of the fish were and bingo we now know that the Sport fishers were over their %12 by 112,023.045634 pounds* (yes accurate to 1/millionth of a pound)

Upper management offishall at DFO after trying to explain to Gail Shea how the hell the amount of fish caught is calculated (in order to make an official announcement), sees that she is completely and utterly confused, so he decides to go to Plan B..... Fawk it!, he says she isn't getting it, just get out the damned dart board, it is much faster and probably more accurate than what we are doing now anyways. Besides, who is going to question what we say?? We are after all the DFO, and what we say goes!!

Now this may be a bit far fetched, but is there anyone that can honestly, and definatively say for 100% certainty that this is NOT the way that they really "estimate" the fish that the Sporties catch?

*112,023.045634 pounds this number is as ficticious as the DFO estimates published and is by no means a real number,,,but then it may be real,,,who knows.

 

[wolf]

From what ive heard they even count commercial crab boats too they dont care they just count!!!!! as of a last year they also went on a avg of 30 lb before it was 15 lbs . so if 1000 boats are fishing they "EST" all of them got fish so thats 4000 fish now times that by there "est" of 30 lbs so thats 12000 lbs for that day all ESTIMATES.......dont you wish you could use these formula to do money for your pay checks!!!!!!!!!

We have to fight back even harder. that thing out there as it is defined from me as not being a human being!!!!!!when someone who blantantlly doesnt give a crap about the intrests of many canadans but only a few is waste of skin in my books

When she said this................" I will not bow to public pressure allowing the recreational sector a larger quota the talks @ the last Halibut neg, broke down making a choice to conserve the stocks and mange stocks for the future"

she just pissed us all off what the hell is she smoking????? what the hell????? the sfab has been trying for 3 years to come up with solutions and work with that THING, well i guess we have to agree she and her government doesnt give a damn .... very sad now we have to HAMMER THEM

 

[Tips Up]

Thanks. That is how I understand it also. Thought I might be missing something.

So we are being charged with catching fish on days that we could not possibly even be on the water. There is a big difference between the number if fish caught in the month of March when the only people fishing are those on the southern island who are equipt for it and only on days where tides and weather cooperate verses the month of August where lodges are in full swing and anyone with a boat big enough can fish hali in places like swiftsure.

It is like being guilty before proven.
I am in full support in the fight for increase allocation but in the meantime is this not a strong enough angle to keep our season open for the full season?
How much is this discussed with DFO?

Again...
"Possibly and probably we are within our 12%.

So how can our season be closed at anytime based on a poorly guestimated catch?
How could we be expected to pay for more access when we have no clear idea that we have even reached our 12%?'

This is part of the issue that should also be made more public.

Tips

 

[wolf]

So how can our season be closed at anytime based on a poorly guestimated catch?

HOW well its the government and is by far the worst managed part of it why do you think almost 20 biologist quit over the last 4 years. they are fed up as well....
I took one of them out last year and he came back for 3 fishing trips and found him to be a very interesting man to chat with I really enjoyed his "perspective" on how he thought were the problems. in his own words they dont listen to anyone...so you have to wonder if they dont listen to professional biologists,fisherman,SFAB its about time they do.

Ill go on record to even say I bet you that "thing" either has interests in a quota or one of her freinds or family... NO conflict of interest at all..... ya right.....

 

[chris73]

It is like being guilty before proven.
I am in full support in the fight for increase allocation but in the meantime is this not a strong enough angle to keep our season open for the full season?
How much is this discussed with DFO?

Again...
"Possibly and probably we are within our 12%.

So how can our season be closed at anytime based on a poorly guestimated catch?
How could we be expected to pay for more access when we have no clear idea that we have even reached our 12%?'

This is part of the issue that should also be made more public.

Tips

They will twist it the other way for their convenience: "We close you precautionary based on the limited data we have. Because we ALWAYS act precautionary in view of conservation. We cannot risk a fishery's participant to go over quota. If you want to prove us wrong, please go ahead!"

The poor estimation of catch is one issue, however, I think it is a smaller one and we should not make the mistake to dig into this trench right now but fight the bigger battle which is the unfair access to a public resource. I'd hate to waste much energy to fight over a detail when you have a chance to topple the whole thing and maybe start from the roots of the issues.

 

[fish4all]

They will twist it the other way for their convenience: "We close you precautionary based on the limited data we have. Because we ALWAYS act precautionary in view of conservation. We cannot risk a fishery's participant to go over quota. If you want to prove us wrong, please go ahead!"

The poor estimation of catch is one issue, however, I think it is a smaller one and we should not make the mistake to dig into this trench right now but fight the bigger battle which is the unfair access to a public resource. I'd hate to waste much energy to fight over a detail when you have a chance to topple the whole thing and maybe start from the roots of the issues.

Maybe I am thick but why would you not start to try and clean the fishery up and get better accounting instead of going to war with the commercial guys. One of the main reasons for camerals on boats was to be defensable to the engos and DFO to prove what was being caught. No I am not suggesting cameras for the rec fleet but there has to be a solution for better accounting. Does anyone know of a link where it shows how many licenses are turned back in at the end of the year?


Just curious if we had got to 15% this year and we have another drop in TAC what then? Right back to square 1 wiht short seasons and reduced limits.

 

[Tips Up]

Agreed Chris. As you know I support the fight over the allocation issue. (have made my calls, written letters and attend meetings where ever I can)
And I am pissed that anyone can own a piece of a public resource limitting access to others and profitting from ownership.

Hypatheticly if there was not an allocation issue and this was about managing the resource, I would support a halibut stamp and an annual limit. As I would a stamp and limit on each species. "IF" 100% of the money was directed to management of each species and not thrown into general revenue. This would give us a much better idea of how many anglers are fishing for each species, what percentage are resident or non resident (which would help to meaure the positive impact on the acconomy)
What if your fishing license in the future looked similar to a hunting license and you bought a stamp for each species? (and please don't anyone read into this that I am suggesting an LEH program)
I would also like to see halibut managed by region as all other species are. Not coast wide.

A pipe dream - I know.

Tips

 

[Deewar25]

ahh, lazy Saturday morning - fired off 3 more letters to the queen joke. I want some answers and I will gladly keep hammering her with letters.

 

[chris73]

Exactly my thoughts, Tips and smiley.

 

[cuttlefish]

Two problems here as I see it. In no particular order;
1. Allocation
2. Blindfold and dart board accounting

Thing is, no matter what the allocation, without proper accounting, the actual catch (and whether or not allocation is reached) will always be questionable/debatable.
Fix the accounting and allocation may no longer be an issue.

So I see think the first order of business shoul be to fix the accounting, then once that is accurate, allocation can be properly addressed.

 

[wolf]

10-4 as chris said.....

 

[fish4all]

Two problems here as I see it. In no particular order;
1. Allocation
2. Blindfold and dart board accounting

Thing is, no matter what the allocation, without proper accounting, the actual catch (and whether or not allocation is reached) will always be questionable/debatable.
Fix the accounting and allocation may no longer be an issue.

So I see think the first order of business shoul be to fix the accounting, then once that is accurate, allocation can be properly addressed.

Exactly. If we can prove or disprove what is being caught then who knows there may be more fish available then first thought.

 

[cuttlefish]

My point isn't so much about proving or disproving catch estimates, it's more about accountability.
The recent DFO decision is proof again that it's better to be inside the tent pi$$ing out than to outside the tent pi$$ing in.
Why are commercial halibut users inside the DFO tent and recreational users outside? IMHO, it's because of being accountable. I'm not saying that sports fishermen don't want to be accountable, I'm just saying the mechanisms to do that aren't there right now and options to fix that haven't been forthcoming.

 

[Lipripper]

I have said it before.... and will again....
Can anyone tell me that we need more than the 12%...We are going off imaginary numbers that boil down to a dart board throw........
We are and don't need to fight the commies on the allocation issue but to say we need more, we don't have a leg to stand on. Chris you say this isn't a trench we should dig.... but as I see it we are punching at ghosts. The media turns it to greed for the average person to see...
Its not about that... If we need more than the 12% fine lets fight for it..... we cant really prove that we need it cause we know how the numbers are being tabulated....


I want to see a feb 1st to dec 31st fishery for us sporties.... thats what I grew up on... things are getting tight. We all know how DFO sinks this ship.. If we can be accountable to a fraction of the commies then we might have something....

I am a sportfisher first..... I have commie fished and spent many years at the wholesale end...... Just throwing my .25 out for conversations sake