Rock slide in Fraser River, B.C., may hinder salmon passage

[Dave]

Good point! There really is a lot to be considered wrt how to go forward with upper Fraser salmon management.
Those decisions should be made ASAP

 

[wildmanyeah]

I was told from a DFO biologist that Ottawa does not want to fund a recovery plan.

Honestly what is needed but isa nuke is for a Sara listing to get approved. It would force funding to get approved and stop all fishing.

 

[Dave]

Might be too late, even with a SARA listing. Just wont be enough genetics left unfortunately, imo

 

[Whitebuck]

It's sort of funny seeing all these posts about the Freshet being above 8 at Hope.
Most years an 8.5 to 9 was average for end of June. We had a 12 a few years ago. These upriver stocks of Chinook and sockeye are some of the most hardiest around. Let's hope we get enough of them past the slide this year.
There needs to be an actual recovery plan for these stocks. Not this pretty picture painted by DFO about what they are doing that the uninformed public buys.

The early Stuart's were the canary in a cage over a decade ago. I think the only way to possibly help this stock would be dip netting at a few spots above Lillioet, Yale or captured at Hells gate or the slide and transplanting them directly into a hatchery upriver. We are maybe a cycle or two away from complete extinction of them. As Dave says the genetics are probably close to being lost.

 

[cuttlefish]

There may be plans to strip some ES sockeye eggs and milt and take them to the Cultus Lake lab again this year like they did last year. That seems to have been bit of a success. See Shuswap’s post #627, page 32.

 

[Whitebuck]

Yes, they did have some success last year with it. Let's hope it can actually be done on a LARGE scale.

All this should have been done a decade ago.

 

[Dave]

Yes, they did have some success last year with it. Let's hope it can actually be done on a LARGE scale.

All this should have been done a decade ago.

One of the problems of a hatchery program for ES is it is made up of many stocks from different creeks ... matching spawners and subsequent rearing of juveniles would be a logistical nightmare.
I would consider major eyed egg plants as part of a recovery program.
Early Stuart’s have always had migration issues, Hudson Bay records indicate run failures some years at Ft. St James.

 

[wildmanyeah]

looks like they have updated the Hydro Acoustic numbers.

 

[terrin]

That's absolute BS. Only 30 fish counted?
Their sonar is not working or they are lying about the numbers. It's almost mid June, there is easily a couple hundred fish showing at the slide site everyday.


Probably more of a reason to keep the sports guys off the water....

It's now mid July. Where are the fish? No reports of stranded fish or passing fish or anything. How many millions of our taxpayers money spent and not enough to give some honest updates good or bad. Campare to last year when even then we had more info.Initial observations over 4 hours on June 28 indicated that no fish were passing, however, observations over the subsequent days detected salmon were making it past the slide area. Based on the interpretation of the sonar, the estimate was that the fish making it past were mostly medium to larger sized Chinook, although some of the images were thought to be sockeye. The estimate was about 70 - 80% of the fish detected on the sonar were Chinook, and 20 - 30% sockeye. The numbers of fish detected were fairly low – in the hundreds in the first day or 2 of July

 

[wildmanyeah]

It's now mid July. Where are the fish? No reports of stranded fish or passing fish or anything. How many millions of our taxpayers money spent and not enough to give some honest updates good or bad. Campare to last year when even then we had more info.Initial observations over 4 hours on June 28 indicated that no fish were passing, however, observations over the subsequent days detected salmon were making it past the slide area. Based on the interpretation of the sonar, the estimate was that the fish making it past were mostly medium to larger sized Chinook, although some of the images were thought to be sockeye. The estimate was about 70 - 80% of the fish detected on the sonar were Chinook, and 20 - 30% sockeye. The numbers of fish detected were fairly low – in the hundreds in the first day or 2 of July

I think this is just a case of real rotten luck. to have a 1/20 year high flow event happen a year after the slide is just cruel.

 

[Whitebuck]

A once in 20 year water event????
Where did you read that?
2007- it go over 12 in Hope
2008- 10.5
2011- Over 10
2012-12.3
2013-10.5
2014-Over 10
I can go on.....

We peaked out at 9.3 this year. These water conditions are nothing new or historic. This year was more of the norm just a bit later. These fish have been migrating through the canyon for ages in high water.

 

[Dave]

Yes, they have migrated up the Fraser for thousands of years, but we don't know what the conditions were like before Hell's Gate. Perhaps they were easier than today ... Now we know sockeye are stopped with this high flow at the Gate, and more likely at this flow, Lady Franklin Rock. Any fish able to get through will be exhausted and will have very high blood cortisol levels, resulting in probable prespawning mortality or diminished egg to fry survivals. Add to this a second barrier at Big Bar and it's game over for these sockeye stocks.
There is far less data on how chinook withstand high flows and the resulting high stress, and what flow rate stops migration but it is generally thought they are stronger swimmers. How high blood cortisol levels in chinook affect spawning success is, I believe, unknown.

 

[wildmanyeah]

A once in 20 year water event????
Where did you read that?
2007- it go over 12 in Hope
2008- 10.5
2011- Over 10
2012-12.3
2013-10.5
2014-Over 10
I can go on.....

We peaked out at 9.3 this year. These water conditions are nothing new or historic. This year was more of the norm just a bit later. These fish have been migrating through the canyon for ages in high water.

Im talking specifically about after July 1 The Discharge in cms on the right side peeked at above 10.5k cms.


Im talking flow because that's what this stress indicator is using

Fraser River discharge at Hope
Critical Levels for Fish Passage through Fraser Canyon:

• 7000 cms - Early signs of physiological stress evident
• 8000 cms - Difficultly in migration delaying migration time.
• 9000 cms - Barrier to migration through Hell's Gate.

According to this link below having that kind of disccharge after July 1 is pretty rare. It gives the 1/20 year flow range in the dotted lines. This is from last year but the averages remain the same.

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/scien...ports-rapports/2019/2019-06-28/index-eng.html

 

[wildmanyeah]

It seems to me having a higher flow into july delays migration further and effects a higher amount of sockeye. If i recall correctly when there was high flows in July they used to debate if they should harvest them all or leave them all.

To me the significance of this is not only is hells gate a barrier this year that the slide is also another one. The other point is this high water is going to delay setting up the whoosh system.

 

[wildmanyeah]

 

[wildmanyeah]

 

[wildmanyeah]

salmon counts at slide

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/pacif...e-eboulement/smon-count-denombrement-eng.html

Looks like some are passing naturally so perhaps the blasting this fall was quit successful.

 

[GLG]

At least the water has dropped enough to get back to work onsite.

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/pacific-smon-pacifique/big-bar-landslide-eboulement/index-eng.html

 

[salmonkiller01]

I wonder how much money they have spent on trying to open the slide up vs how much they have spent on hatchery production up river for these fish.

 

[wildmanyeah]

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/pacif...e-eboulement/smon-count-denombrement-eng.html

looks like they have been busy of the past few days tagging salmon with a number achieving natural passage