Recommendation For Marine Electrician/Lithium Battery Expert in Vancouver

[Rain City]

I'm thinking about getting the whole shebang reworked. The boat lists to port slightly, and that's where the battery area is. I'd like to go way more robust so looks like I'll be adding a lot more weight with a traditional system. Might be better to just bite the bullet now and get it over with. The guys I'm dealing with currently don't seem overly interested in researching new products, but I also don't want to be over-sold and charged a 100% markup on the batteries by the bigger companies with the fancy wrapped vans. Any thoughts?

 

[kaelc]

You can look up Marine electricians certified to the yachting standard here but none in Vancouver? https://abycinc.org/certified-tech-directory/

 

[kaelc]

Have you tried Pacific yacht systems? They might sell you the most expensive batteries but they will do it right.

 

[zloy]

I can recommend OS Marine https://osmarineservice.com
Oleg has done a lot of work on my boat, including electrical (lithium batteries, inverter/charger, solar etc.).
No need to go with fancy brand batteries, mine "lower profile" name batteries appear to be of better quality than Dakota, which I also have.

 

[Rain City]

I can recommend OS Marine https://osmarineservice.com
Oleg has done a lot of work on my boat, including electrical (lithium batteries, inverter/charger, solar etc.).

Thank you.

 

[Rain City]

Have you tried Pacific yacht systems? They might sell you the most expensive batteries but they will do it right.

I think you missed a big part of my criteria.

 

[kaelc]

I think you missed a big part of my criteria.

Never hurts to ask, will you install my Amazon….

 

[zurk]

youre better off DIYing it. i tried to get mine installed by a pro and he told me i'd blow up half the marina. needless to say most marine electricians are scared of lithium specially when you go near 3000 amps. if you want to post a circuit diagram we can look at it. or ask whoever you decide to hire to give you a circuit diagram and we can look over it and tell you if its crazy or not.
if you use your existing boat circuits, the simplest would be a drop in replacement 1 for 1 - where a lead acid exists drop in a lithium with a blue seas 200A T fuse block on the terminals and where an engine exists drop in a sterling APD at the alternator connections. if youre in vancouver i can drop by and look it over if youre interested on a weekend or whatever. i take payment in the form of boat rides.

 

[BC Coast Pilot]

I thought about going lithium, but then I realized that if the boat was sinking and full of salt water the protocol is to stay with the stricken vessel, until help arrives. What if at this juncture the stricken vessel tries to kill you when the batteries go thermal runaway?

 

[zurk]

my kayak usually gets dunked in salt water and runs a dakota lithium 100Ah battery. lifepo4s are waterproof. well, the good ones anyway. you will have to reset the BMS if you dunk it.

 

[Max123]

@zurk - A kayak with 100ah battery... that's a bit of a teaser. Do tell.

@Rain City - what are you looking to accomplish? Reduce weight, address lack of power, existing batteries are at end of life cycle and you want to make sure your replacement is a well considered/current upgrade? What are you currently running? I'm assuming you would stick with AGM for starting batteries and you are just looking at the house side?

If you take a lead acid system and do a direct swap to lithium with same amp-hour capacity, you are functionally doubling your system capacity since the old system could only be drawn down 50% (eg if you have a 500ah battery capacity, you only have access to 250ah without damaging the reserve). Likewise, as lead-acid battery is drawn down voltage drop increases so the capacity doesn't drop in a linear fashion, more of a downward curve.

I was working with an electrician a few years ago on an off-grid cabin (before lithium was cheap/common), and the main issue he saw was lead-acid systems dying after a few years because owners would draw the batteries all the way down by accident a few times and kill the lifespan. As such his recommendation at the time was to install as much battery capacity as you can - not because you actually need it - but to preserve the lifespan of the system against user error and ensure people were only tapping into a fraction of the reserve capacity.

This totally changed with the advent of lithium batteries since these can be run down to basically zero without affecting lifespan, and voltage drop is a non-issue. They can also accept a charge much faster, so you can use large solar arrays to maximize charging potential while feeding into smaller batteries. Panels are cheap/replaceable, batteries are the opposite. Consequently in lithium battery systems you are typically using way smaller batteries because the huge reserve just isn't needed. Add in a solar panel or two to provide passive top-up and you have a much more robust / worry free system.

I wouldn't think about a 'larger' system, I'd think about a smaller, lighter, smarter system.

 

[Rain City]

@zurk - A kayak with 100ah battery... that's a bit of a teaser. Do tell.

@Rain City - what are you looking to accomplish? Reduce weight, address lack of power, existing batteries are at end of life cycle and you want to make sure your replacement is a well considered/current upgrade? What are you currently running? I'm assuming you would stick with AGM for starting batteries and you are just looking at the house side?

If you take a lead acid system and do a direct swap to lithium with same amp-hour capacity, you are functionally doubling your system capacity since the old system could only be drawn down 50% (eg if you have a 500ah battery capacity, you only have access to 250ah without damaging the reserve). Likewise, as lead-acid battery is drawn down voltage drop increases so the capacity doesn't drop in a linear fashion, more of a downward curve.

I was working with an electrician a few years ago on an off-grid cabin (before lithium was cheap/common), and the main issue he saw was lead-acid systems dying after a few years because owners would draw the batteries all the way down by accident a few times and kill the lifespan. As such his recommendation at the time was to install as much battery capacity as you can - not because you actually need it - but to preserve the lifespan of the system against user error and ensure people were only tapping into a fraction of the reserve capacity.

This totally changed with the advent of lithium batteries since these can be run down to basically zero without affecting lifespan, and voltage drop is a non-issue. They can also accept a charge much faster, so you can use large solar arrays to maximize charging potential while feeding into smaller batteries. Panels are cheap/replaceable, batteries are the opposite. Consequently in lithium battery systems you are typically using way smaller batteries because the huge reserve just isn't needed. Add in a solar panel or two to provide passive top-up and you have a much more robust / worry free system.

I wouldn't think about a 'larger' system, I'd think about a smaller, lighter, smarter system.

All of the above. Existing dead AGMs. Need way more capacity on the house side. It's a shared Starboard start/house and an independent start on the port side. With a link switch when needed. I don't want to add more weight if possible so might end up adding some solar as well.

 

[MRWood]

All of the above. Existing dead AGMs. Need way more capacity on the house side. It's a shared Starboard start/house and an independent start on the port side. With a link switch when needed. I don't want to add more weight if possible so might end up adding some solar as well.

Add a wind propeller generator as well. It’ll be like something from the movie Mosquito Coast.

 

[Rain City]

Add a wind propeller generator as well. It’ll be like something from the movie Mosquito Coast.

I'm thinking more Waterworld

 

[Alex_c]

If your batteries are performing double duties as starting batteries, I wouldn’t go lithium. Alternatively, you could leave your agms for strictly starting and add a single 300 ah lithium on a DC/DC charger/battery isolator as a house batt. I’d probably add a separate charger for that one that connects to shore power. You can also wire it up to charge off the outboards too with the isolator. That being said, a 200-300W solar panel and a 300ah lithium house battery is a ton of juice. Doubt you’d need to top it up off your motors, but you undoubtedly want that option.

 

[Alex_c]

I thought about going lithium, but then I realized that if the boat was sinking and full of salt water the protocol is to stay with the stricken vessel, until help arrives. What if at this juncture the stricken vessel tries to kill you when the batteries go thermal runaway?

LiFePO4 batteries are fully sealed. Your system should have adequate breakers and fuses to prevent drawing more current than the battery can provide. The BMS also provides protection against a short across the terminals.

 

[macro]

It's easiest if you don't mix battery chemistries. Lead has a lower float voltage, so if you parralel a lead and a lithium, one will be trying to charge the other. Move it all to lifepo4. As long as you don't exceed the batteries BMS max current (starting a motor etc) you won't really need any other changes.

My ghetto system is just 4 lifepo4 cells, in a standard battery box exposed to the elements... it's going on 4 years now with out issues.. the cells are staying balanced.

A properly built battery / BMS combo should be maintenance free.

 

[Max123]

So existing system is a single Starboard Start + House and then an independent Port Start battery? I bet that starboard battery gets a substantial workout.

I don't want to comment on the specific 1-line diagram, I don't have the expertise - but ideally you have dedicated AGM start battery(ies) and dedicated Lithium house battery, with isolation / DC>DC charging that allows you to charge the House from either solar or engines.

I suspect there are a few ways to slice the onion. Keep it simple - don't try to get it to cover every scenario. Fewer components, higher quality components, bulletproof wiring that is crystal clear.

 

[Alex_c]

So existing system is a single Starboard Start + House and then an independent Port Start battery? I bet that starboard battery gets a substantial workout.

I don't want to comment on the specific 1-line diagram, I don't have the expertise - but ideally you have dedicated AGM start battery(ies) and dedicated Lithium house battery, with isolation / DC>DC charging that allows you to charge the House from either solar or engines.

I suspect there are a few ways to slice the onion. Keep it simple - don't try to get it to cover every scenario. Fewer components, higher quality components, bulletproof wiring that is crystal clear.

That’s the setup I was describing. Starting batteries only for starting, house battery only for house. Only connection between the 2 systems is via an ACR from each motor feeding the house battery so the motors can charge the house battery. Here’s a better diagram:

 

[Max123]

@Alex_c - I'm not confident enough in my knowledge of these systems and may be getting in over my head, but when I was looking at the ACR - I think that your diagram reflects lead acid for both the house and starting battery. With a lead-acid starting batteries and a lithium house I think the ACR is replaced with a DC>DC charge controller (which can also have MPPT control for solar input as well if you buy the right one). Others may correct me, and I appreciate the lesson. My experience is limited to a solar setup on a cabin, and in that case there was no DC alternator power source and only one kind of battery.

Also, curious if x2 starting batteries are actually required (research leads me to believe it is not). Go down to a single group 24 or 27 AGM starting battery - tons of capacity to fire up x2 150 Yamahas - especially since the batteries are now starting only with no other loads to wear them down (i'd still carry a jump pack as my backup). Fewer components, fewer things to fail, easier to diagnose when it does fail. The counter argument is to have a 2nd starting battery for redundant backup - and its a totally valid argument - 'dealers choice' as they say.