Railings for small commercial Vessels

[Captain PartyMarty]

Hi All

Just wanted get some input. I am working on upgrading my boats this winter to make sure they are fully TC compliant. According to my research a passenger deck needs to have gunnel plus railing height of no less than 36in. On my boats that means I need to add 9in of railing. My question here is for the guys that have 36in railings do you find that it gets in the way of reeling in fish or netting fish?

Also am I missing something in terms of this requirement? Seems like I see a lot of Charter boats without back deck railings. Surely there gunnels are not 36in high.

CPM

 

[Rain City]

Hi All

Just wanted get some input. I am working on upgrading my boats this winter to make sure they are fully TC compliant. According to my research a passenger deck needs to have gunnel plus railing height of no less than 36in. On my boats that means I need to add 9in of railing. My question here is for the guys that have 36in railings do you find that it gets in the way of reeling in fish or netting fish?

Also am I missing something in terms of this requirement? Seems like I see a lot of Charter boats without back deck railings. Surely there gunnels are not 36in high.

CPM

There are probably more non compliant, under insured and unregistered guides in Vancouver than legit ones. To answer your question, yes I've had friends that needed to build up their rails to comply. They operated as a crew boat though. Not sure if that changes anything. And also yes, the rails do suck.

 

[zurk]

you can always add wire rails. unless there is a specific requirement for them to be solid. wire rails can be unclipped when not needed i.e. for fishing.

 

[Derby]

Depending on your rigger placement with the boom extended perhaps your hand rails ?

 

[Captain PartyMarty]

Depending on your rigger placement with the boom extended perhaps your hand rails ?

I think people use this as justification for not having railings but the purpose is to stop people from falling overboard. I don't think the rigger base is strong enough and would likely break if somebody grabbed on to prevent falling overboard.

Its tough I don't like it because it feels like it will make fishing harder, but at the same time liability insurance will likely not cover you if something happens and your boat was not conforming to TC rules. I did some research last night and it seems the popular Grady Guide boats all have around 27" gunnels so they should all have railings but it seems most do not. Seems pretty risky if something where to happen.

 

[Sailfish25]

Doesn’t Transport Canada actually Certify the vessel? If they sign off, I would suspect that sufficiently mitigates the liability concerns.

In the case of a charter fishing vessel there is a bona fide rationale as to why that specific regulation would not be adhered to.

 

[Captain PartyMarty]

In the case of a charter fishing vessel there is a bona fide rationale as to why that specific regulation would not be adhered to.

Can you explain what that rationale is?

Most boats are certified by TC but as pleasure vessels which don't have the same requirements as a commercial vessel, as far as I know there is no requirement to have the vessel inspected before it gets registered as a commercial vessel but I would assume if you where to be stopped on the water by the coast guard they could do the inspection but I think its unlikely based on the number of potentially non-compliant boats out there. I think the only time it comes into play is if something where to happen onboard and it goes to court, at that point you might up the creek without a paddle.

 

[Sailfish25]

If the vessel is greater than 15 gross tonnage (about a 30 foot boat) I think a physical inspection is required

https://tc.canada.ca/en/marine-tran...-150-gross-tonnage-vessel-inspected-certified

 

[Sailfish25]

Can you explain what that rationale is?

It interferes with the purpose of the vessel.

Surely not every commercial vessel can adhere to every regulation and discretion is applied. As an extreme example consider a Harbour Pilot boat - obviously those vessels are properly certified - no one is breaking the rules there. In many cases Pilot boats do not have railings at all as they would interfere.

 

[BC Coast Pilot]

It interferes with the purpose of the vessel.

Surely not every commercial vessel can adhere to every regulation and discretion is applied. As an extreme example consider a Harbour Pilot boat - obviously those vessels are properly certified - no one is breaking the rules there. In many cases Pilot boats do not have railings at all as they would interfere.

You need to be looking at small passenger regulations, less than 12 passengers.
As far as tonnage is concerned, it is a measurement of the cargo capacity (historically it was a tax/fee measurement for cargo/vessel size) or the voids, not weight. A 30 foot vessel may be only 2 to 4 tonnes
Pilot boats and many others fall into different classes, and have their own regulations. For example

https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2007/tc/T29-17-2006.pdf

 

[zurk]

my 15 ton cat (technically 14.99 tons as per the regs) has wire rails which can be clipped off and passed their inspection for whatever thats worth.

 

[BC Coast Pilot]

I'll assume it falls into some sort of pleasurecraft regulations for sailboats?, not a commercial passenger vessel, that's the game changer, different class, like saying we should put railings on tugs, or my tinny should have railings. Tonnage rules are a bit of a red herring as you can change it simply by adding a false bulkhead. I once ran a 60 tonne tug registered at 9.98 tonnes to get under the 10 tonne rule. Origin is from how much wine it could carry as cargo. Want less tonnage? Put a toilet in the space.

 

[Aces]

you can always add wire rails. unless there is a specific requirement for them to be solid. wire rails can be unclipped when not needed i.e. for fishing.

This right here is the answer imo

 

[BC Coast Pilot]

This right here is the answer imo

Had to look it up, years ago lots of buddies had to mod their boats when the program started seeing some enforcement from TC.
On the right track as a rule beater unless theres an exemption for modifying while in use engaged in sportsfishing, although the inspector may see it as a temporary workaround and disallow it, say if it was viewed that you may remove the rails post inspection. Many ships utilize wire rails

https://tc.canada.ca/sites/default/files/migrated/tp11717e_1.pdf

 

[Unreel]

I can’t say I’ve seen any Grady’s, Pursuits or other walkarounds with C numbers that have railings, mine included. When I had my boat surveyed for my stability test for c numbers, the surveyor measured the gunnel height and said they were good and they are mid 20” high I think.

 

[BC Coast Pilot]

I can’t say I’ve seen any Grady’s, Pursuits or other walkarounds with C numbers that have railings, mine included. When I had my boat surveyed for my stability test for c numbers, the surveyor measured the gunnel height and said they were good and they are mid 20” high I think.

The commercial small vessel registration process is just that, not a compliance program.
Did you receive a Transport Canada certificate of Safety inspection?
I'll guess not, just a certificate of commercial registry after your tonnage was measured.Typically a small vessel surveyor does not do a TC inspection unless they are a Class surveyor, most likely he was just ABYC certified and using those rules.

 

[zurk]

I'll assume it falls into some sort of pleasurecraft regulations for sailboats?,

mine is in the large vessel register. they dont discriminate between commercial and pleasure categories in that. i was surprised it actually needed a inspection at all. vessels in the large vessel register are for vessels making international trips regardless of category.

 

[Captain PartyMarty]

I don’t think a wire railing is the way to go. I find it interesting that this requirement seems to be ignored by most operators. I am going to come up with a design for my Seasports over the next few days install it and test it out this up coming season. I will share what I come up with

 

[BC Coast Pilot]

mine is in the large vessel register. they dont discriminate between commercial and pleasure categories in that. i was surprised it actually needed a inspection at all. vessels in the large vessel register are for vessels making international trips regardless of category.

Registration and inspection are two different things, there are many different categories for inspection.
Mostly, vessels of your nature are registered to assume a mortgage on said vessel title.

 

[zurk]

I don’t think a wire railing is the way to go. I find it interesting that this requirement seems to be ignored by most operators. I am going to come up with a design for my Seasports over the next few days install it and test it out this up coming season. I will share what I come up with

railings are kinda redundant anyway. i use proper lifelines and clip in with my offshore lifejacket harness on deck. i doubt any form of railing, solid or otherwise, is going to seriously prevent you from falling overboard if hit by a 20+ foot wave. thats 6 tons of force slamming you overboard. clipping in with a 3ft harness to a dyneema safety line attached to your cleats will keep you from being swept off. anything else wont. the wire railings just reduce weight on deck which lowers CG.