North Island First Nations declare intent to take control fisheries in traditional waters

[Whole in the Water]

Wow - this has the potential to dramatically change the way fisheries are managed and harvested across all of Canada where there are no treaties signed! Also has the potential to impact all resources on land where there are no treaties signed. This will be a hay day for the lawyers as there will need to be many big court cases and negotiations to sort this out. I'm no constitutional law expert by any stretch but IMHO if Canada continues to support UNDRIP then the First Nations may very well have a much larger role in the management of all resources in Canada. Be very interesting to see how this all turns out.

 

[Hardy Guy]

As WMY stated its all about the Fish farms in their area. They are concerned about DFO licensing decisions coming up as they are important to their economy.

 

[searun]

A lot of bluster IMO. The crown is not about to relinquish authority to be the regulator. There are way too many constitutional pitfalls for ol JT if he went down that dark path.

 

[SpringFever552]

A lot of bluster IMO. The crown is not about to relinquish authority to be the regulator. There are way too many constitutional pitfalls for ol JT if he went down that dark path.

What dont you understand about UNDRIP,
all about self governance , rights/titles..that "dark path" you speak of HAS been entered and these governments are running with it..again without 1 referendum or vote from all Canadian's

 

[searun]

What dont you understand about UNDRIP,
all about self governance , rights/titles..that "dark path" you speak of HAS been entered and these governments are running with it..again without 1 referendum or vote from all Canadian's

Canada is governed by our Constitution, not UNDRIP which is a political ideal. Yes some governments are trying out what I call the Politics of Idealism. They can take that for a spin for a while until they run into the reality of their Constitutional responsibilities. That's where idealism and reality rubber hits the ground.

 

[wildmanyeah]

seems like it’s more then an ideal

Next Steps

Next Steps

www.justice.gc.ca

 

[OldBlackDog]

Canada is governed by our Constitution, not UNDRIP which is a political ideal. Yes some governments are trying out what I call the Politics of Idealism. They can take that for a spin for a while until they run into the reality of their Constitutional responsibilities. That's where idealism and reality rubber hits the ground.

And that is were you will have to go to court. All the way to the Supreme Court.

 

[searun]

seems like it’s more then an ideal

Next Steps

Next Steps

www.justice.gc.ca

From the document....as I said:

• Take all measures necessary to ensure the consistency of federal laws with the Declaration

 

[wildmanyeah]

constitution acts as a minimum right, UNDRIP builds on it

Ensuring the laws of Canada are consistent with the Declaration

The Government of Canada is responsible for taking all measures necessary, in consultation and cooperation with Indigenous peoples, to ensure consistency of federal laws with the Declaration. This means taking measures to ensure that existing laws are consistent with the Declaration. It also means that the Government will take measures to ensure that future laws reflect the rights and principles of the Declaration.

Impact on existing federal laws

Given the scope of the Declaration, many federal laws intersect with elements of the Declaration. We anticipate that some existing federal laws will need to be amended in order to better align with the Declaration. This legislation provides a whole-of-government framework for identifying and guiding such future changes. New legislation will also need to be developed with the Declaration in mind.
The full and effective implementation of the Declaration is a process that will take time as the federal government, in cooperation and partnership with Indigenous peoples, assesses changes that need to be made to laws, policies and practices to be consistent with the Declaration. Any future changes will need to go through regular policy development, engagement and parliamentary processes.

 

[wildmanyeah]

the question of common law resources seems pretty clear, UNDRIP I don't think changes it but it it certainly encourages the government to give first nations there faire share.

We already have sparrow and five nations for future management allocation. Pretty clear that chinook and Coho allocations for rec don't really align with that.

 

[searun]

the question of common law resources seems pretty clear, UNDRIP I don't think changes it but it it certainly encourages the government to give first nations there faire share.

We already have sparrow and five nations for future management allocation. Pretty clear that chinook and Coho allocations for rec don't really align with that.

Then if things turn out as you suggest the writing is on the wall...how we react to it is within our control, no one else. For some the sky is falling, for others there is opportunity to forge new and different relationships. Life is a collection of choices, and from my observation the people who seem to make really solid, rational choices rather than react out of fear tend to fair better than most.

 

[wildmanyeah]

I think a mark selective fishery is probably a good work around.

also address sifting pressure from closed areas to open areas.

 

[chris73]

Well, we got almost nothing else to lose so maybe this comes as a welcome rescue for the sportfishery under a FN management. Can't get worse than under DFO.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Some areas like like 111, 11 that’s in these First Nation territory’s is 2 chinook a day all year.

 

[SpringFever552]

Some areas like like 111, 11 that’s in these First Nation territory’s is 2 chinook a day all year.

It is odd isn't it?, some of these endangered fish that these closures are trying to protect swim rite on through there, In the scheme of things pressure would be very low from sporties , the weather is hit and miss, more miss, I'd bet only a few on this forum fish regularly up that way, DFO and local band would know this,
I've been up off that area 3 times in 44yrs of sportfishing,
cool area though when weather allows

 

[cohochinook]

That will be interesting, clans fighting over fish.

Already happens Cowichan are fighting with the Fraser bands for sockeye.

 

[cohochinook]

Wow - this has the potential to dramatically change the way fisheries are managed and harvested across all of Canada where there are no treaties signed! Also has the potential to impact all resources on land where there are no treaties signed. This will be a hay day for the lawyers as there will need to be many big court cases and negotiations to sort this out. I'm no constitutional law expert by any stretch but IMHO if Canada continues to support UNDRIP then the First Nations may very well have a much larger role in the management of all resources in Canada. Be very interesting to see how this all turns out.

Or very scary! We have already lost a great deal of access and I suspect that this will lead to further restrictions for non-First Nations fishers

 

[cohochinook]

I think a mark selective fishery is probably a good work around.

also address sifting pressure from closed areas to open areas.

Remember some First Nations say catch and release is playing with their food. MSF fishery maybe considered this way. Let's hope the government comes to their senses and achieves more of a balanced approach. What we need is a conservative government! The liberals are giving the keys away to the fishery.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Remember some First Nations say catch and release is playing with their food. MSF fishery maybe considered this way. Let's hope the government comes to their senses and achieves more of a balanced approach. What we need is a conservative government! The liberals are giving the keys away to the fishery.

Yeah said that last year when I thought msf had more of a chance of getting in.

Now I think a full scale msf probably won’t happen at all under this government

 

[Whole in the Water]

A lot of bluster IMO. The crown is not about to relinquish authority to be the regulator. There are way too many constitutional pitfalls for ol JT if he went down that dark path.

Ultimately it comes down to what the Supreme Court decides when UNDRIP related cases go to court. True that Parliament can create new legislation to go in the direction the politicians and hopefully the majority citizens want, but it has to be legally sound and defensible for the the Supreme Court to uphold any law when challenged in court. So it is not totally up to JT, or any other PM, or other political leader for that matter as this is how our constitution and balance of federal govt. & supreme court powers are laid out.

Supreme Court cases can be tricky and hard to predict depending on govt. direction/bias and the political and legal perspectives/bias of the Supreme Court judges and related case law in Canada and other jurisdictions. Not a cut & dry matter by any means! If in doubt just look at what is happening in the US.

Like I and a growing number of others have said before - ultimately the right of all Canadians to have reasonable access to the public fishery (i.e. a common property resource 'owned' by all Canadians and 'managed' on our behalf by the Crown) will have to be either won, or lost in the courts.

Time to start building a large court case fund boys and girls of the public fishery!!!