Next round of closures SRKW related

[SpringVelocity]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2115355901880047

 

[Aces]

20 years only gets ya back to 1998 lol

I started going to meetings in 1990

 

[wildmanyeah]

Wow NGO fest at the mainland meeting. They sure came prepared. Interesting
questions and very different from island meetings...

They are going after whale watching as well.

Of course, they don’t get paid 100k a year to sit on their butt and do nothing. Full time paid professions.

But it’s not what they do at these meetings that matters it’s the proposals they are giving DFO backed by scientists and lawyers that does the work.

These guys went up against the fish farm industry and got a win. They went up against big oil and stopped a pipe line.

 

[SpringVelocity]

Of course, they don’t get paid 100k a year to sit on their butt and do nothing. Full time paid professions.

But it’s not what they do at these meetings that matters it’s the proposals they are giving DFO backed by scientists and lawyers that does the work.

These guys went up against the fish farm industry and got a win. They went up against big oil and stopped a pipe line.

Yes we already know. I am commenting because they were very non existent at Victoria and Sooke meetings so that was very well planned. Something to remember next time.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Yes we already know. I am commenting because they were very non existent at Victoria and Sooke meetings so that was very well planned. Something to remember next time.

Only thing that will change the path were on is for this trained to get derailed come October election.

I think they are freaking righteous trying to shut down a fishery that takes place in where there is the most vessel traffic in B.C. trying to shut down a fishery that takes place in front of some of the busiest ports in this country, van port, delta port, surrey port.

Frustrating

 

[SpringVelocity]

Only thing that will change the path were on is for this trained to get derailed come October election.

I think they are freaking righteous trying to shut down a fishery that takes place in where there is the most vessel traffic in B.C. trying to shut down a fishery that takes place in front of some of the busiest ports in this country, van port, delta port, surrey port.

Frustrating

Extremely Frustrating...

 

[Deewar25]

The next time anyone hears a DFO staffer saying this, please make a point of recording that individual's name and position. Then get it to me asap please & thanks.

Dr. Carl Walters was directly involved in the initial studies relating to hake predation.
He has since publicly noted (as have his colleagues) that they made an error in estimation of exponential proportions. Thus it is now their firm belief that the potential impacts were greatly misrepresented as a consequence in this case.

This fact was discussed with DFO in the last PBPS meeting with them. Carl explained in detail this exact matter. All within DFO Science agreed he was correct. Therefore no DFO personnel should be continuing to parrot discredited information whatsoever.

In the thread PBPS The Science ( https://www.sportfishingbc.com/foru...-balance-pinniped-scociety-the-science.74345/ ), Dr. Walter's presentation regarding seal harvesting includes a component on this very matter. Quite worth while to take that in - there is considerable amount of extremely good and up-to-date information within that.

Cheers,
Nog

listening to the replay of the Richmond meeting, sounds like Eddie Kennedy was probably the one that used the hake example (assume same panel here right?) - pinnipeds were bought up again tonight and it was directed to him to answer. He did mention that the seals prefer hake & herring and 10% of diet was salmon, but this round he didn't use hake eating smolts as an argument. Interesting when responding about how much smolt seals are eating, he just claimed ignorance...I have no idea...oh, they said 30+ million taken out of the river...'we are working on estimates, but I don't know the exact numbers...I'd question the accuracy'...yadda yadda yadda

 

[wildmanyeah]

Plan to help Chinook salmon, orcas dismissed as unfairly targeting sports fishermen

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/plan-to-help-...unfairly-targeting-sports-fishermen-1.4392094

 

[el.Pereh]

I was there last night. What was said on the sportfishing side I thought was good. Panel took it like a good panel would though.

The most disappointing part of the night was the lack of support from the younger generation of anglers. The apathy in my generation is very disappointing. Thank you to the guys who came in force who taught us everything we know.

I feel differently about the ENGO people there. I thought they came off fluffy and idealistic and I think the socioeconomic argument came through as much more pragmatic. They were attractive though...Maybe we need more of that!

This was my first meeting like this so maybe I am naive. Sounds like it.

 

[wildmanyeah]

REMEMBER ALSO TO COMPLETE THE ONLINE SURVEY

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/consultation/fm-gp/srkw-eprs/index-eng.html?

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/consultation/fm-gp/srkw-eprs/potential-meas-mes-poss-eng.html

 

[SpringVelocity]

National Post.

Why the southern resident killer whales should have the same rights as people

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-p...-whales-should-have-the-same-rights-as-people

 

[FishBear]

" So as fishers of the Salish Sea, we are required to cut back our harvest." I for one am done with this "Salish Sea" notion. This is the "Gulf of Georgia" not the Salish Sea.

Much of this "new language" we are being fed is being driven by the same types of politicians (advised by bureaucrats) who have largely ignored the issues in the Pacific Ocean surrounding salmon on many levels (and here in the Gulf). As one simple visual example consider sea lions. I grew up at French Creek in the 60's. There are now always at least 100 sea lions laying on the breakwater. They didn't exist there in the 60's and the Gulf was full of salmon. The local rivers with their hatchery produced salmon are now feeding sources for the seals and lions both on the outflow of smolts and the inflow of spawners. They will clean up more salmon than any recreational salmon fleet by far.

In the bigger picture DFO as a government organization has failed to do their basic job. However if you look at how their mandate has changed to being more Coast Guard related and a political tool of the federal government, it is no surprise. In their transition they have killed the commercial salmon industry (I was one of them) and are now killing the recreational salmon industry. They ignored the science on the East Coast with the cod and don't appear to have utilized it much on this coast with the salmon.

I for one do not trust DFO and their lead bureaucrats. The political agenda behind the scenes simply sucks. If you are not Fortune 500 or FN there doesn't appear to be room for you in the future.

This was my reference to marine waters shared by both our countries and by the SRKWs... simply trying to be "inclusive" with regard to our common issues.

 

[IronNoggin]

It was the DFO rep at the Vic bear Mnt meeting that stated the seal/hake/smolt issue. Stating that "studies" have proven that seals eat large amounts of hake, removing some seals could lead to larger hake populations that could prey on more salmon smolts. He ended with lots more science and data must be done before any pinniped cull happens.

He was lying. Period. Toting the ENGO lines.
The studies have been done.
There was no argument on the science when we met with DFO.
These troops have either been intentionally misinformed, or have taken it upon themselves to misdirect the public.

listening to the replay of the Richmond meeting, sounds like Eddie Kennedy was probably the one that used the hake example (assume same panel here right?) - pinnipeds were bought up again tonight and it was directed to him to answer. He did mention that the seals prefer hake & herring and 10% of diet was salmon, but this round he didn't use hake eating smolts as an argument. Interesting when responding about how much smolt seals are eating, he just claimed ignorance...I have no idea...oh, they said 30+ million taken out of the river...'we are working on estimates, but I don't know the exact numbers...I'd question the accuracy'...yadda yadda yadda

Shell game here. Misdirection at all costs.
Again, they are intentionally misinformed, or intentionally misdirecting.
He is more than welcome to "question" Dr. Carl Walters and his colleagues works. Would love to watch that one unfold actually.
I did send a message up the ladder regarding this matter, and the hake reference.
Appears some of that may have trickled through into their dinosaur brain.
Too little however it appears.
Now with a name to attach, I will re-address this matter again today.

Please Folks, get the names & positions of those who toss this drivel out.
It REALLY helps to have that intel when addressing the department.
Should this BS not stop shortly, I am surmising it may be time to with a public dressing down of the department once again...

Cheers & Thanks,
Matt

 

[Rockfish]

National Post.

Why the southern resident killer whales should have the same rights as people

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-p...-whales-should-have-the-same-rights-as-people

If they get this in place the more extremist animal rights cults like Peta would push for its immediate expansion. We eat animals but we don't eat people, but if animals have the legal protections/rights of people, it is a very short jump to removing the meat, fish and poultry section at the supermarket. Enjoy those tofu dogs.

 

[halimark]

I truly believe this whole SRKW issue is nothing more than the Lib's appeasing the "masses" for votes. Again dumbed down Canadians and others think we are the bad guys. DFO and the panel basically dismissed, ignored and circumnavigated around all those who brought up the ecosystem issue, from better habitat, more fish spawning, better smolt survival, more herring, less pinnipeds and ultimately maybe more well fed whales. Their only answer is less rec fishers catching already closed chinook, minimizing noise only from rec fishers while commercial traffic exponentially increases and restricting rec fishers on the water, while a minority continues to rape the river. Please tell me they fully understand we are not the issue but a easy scapegoat for votes. Verifies what I thought from the start, Libs want all fishing and hunting only allowed, administered and managed by a certain few.

HM

 

[RBL]

Killer whales should have a voice in court? This is getting beyond ridiculous. Someone needs to do an investigation and audit of these ENGO groups that are trying to destroy us. Guaranteed there is some shady **** going on in these groups. We need to get some negative press going against these guys.

 

[Peahead]

Wow NGO fest at the mainland meeting. They sure came prepared. Interesting
questions and very different from island meetings...

They are going after whale watching as well.

I was there and feel quite diffferent on the amount of NGO input at the Richmond location. There were a couple of general comments via NGO guests about needing stronger faster action. I thought their generalized statements were very weak and lacked any focus or science at all. They actually came across as what I call "wishywashy" and being very uneducated on the topic. While I can't compare to the VI sessions that you say had no NGO there, I found that at the Richmond meeting the recreational sector, commercial sector, public residents and whale watchers all spoke very well and provided some very educated comments. The one NGO that I particularily recall who spoke was a very young lady that said she had recently moved from Vancouver Aquarium and was now working with GSA. She brought up Lance Barrett- Lenard's name which had no context other than to comment he also works at the aquarium. She commented on the need to take more action commenting the SRKW are starving (even though Trites has suggested they are emaciated and not actually starving). Prey is available it is just that accessing it seems could be the problem. Despite all the many things the panel brought foward in the plan for CH there will always be an NGO saying, it is not enough. I think that broken record standard comment isn't effective on its own. If that is all you can come with I guess you have to go with that. Honestly I thought GSA comments were just unfocussed and I am sure the panel is used to that. I feel despite what the DFO panel suggests to their bosses what to do ( or if the bosses have already decided), the meeting's guests overwhelmingly chose Option A ( more procedural measures and some voluntary actions/less closures) as much more favoured. Everyone did a graet job and I thought the meeting made the rec sector look very passionate, organized and professional.

I found it interesting that for SRKW/CH the senario A and B were set up by DFO in reverse to the Chinook senario A and B - with this time "A" being the more relaxed as far as blanket fishing closures and more emphasis on education and actions that help keep distance from SRKW.

 

[searun]

I posted this on another thread, but it's just as relevant on this one:

Notice that the new forecast is for much higher returns...hoping the ENGO's crowd doesn't start telling fables connecting the higher returns to the Fraser to fishing restrictions...there are more coming than originally forecast.

2019 New Forecast:

Fraser Early - 138,333 (2019 forecast), which is 163.95% larger than 2018 observed (84,373)

Fraser Late - 126,343 (2019 forecast), which is 155.21% larger than 2018 observed (81,399)

The 2019 forecast returning chinook to Fraser and Puget Sound (food available to SRKW) = 571,816 Chinook

Caloric Intake requirements for SRKW are per Noren (2010):

16,386 Kcal/Chinook
82 SRKW (yes I'm over-estimating the population) caloric requirements are 792 to 951 Chinook/day
SRKW are present approximately 150 days
Taking the high end of the estimated Chinook as prey requirement to sustain 82 SKRW range here's the calculation:

951 Chinook x 150 days = 142,500 Chinook required to meet caloric intake requirement to sustain SRKW

That is 25% of the entire 571,816 Chinook that will be swimming around within the key SRKW forage areas....so if SRKW are "starving" they must be pretty darn poor hunters...or is it there are way too many vessels in close proximity preventing SRKW from finding their prey?

 

[RBL]

I posted this on another thread, but it's just as relevant on this one:

Notice that the new forecast is for much higher returns...hoping the ENGO's crowd doesn't start telling fables connecting the higher returns to the Fraser to fishing restrictions...there are more coming than originally forecast.

2019 New Forecast:

Fraser Early - 138,333 (2019 forecast), which is 163.95% larger than 2018 observed (84,373)

Fraser Late - 126,343 (2019 forecast), which is 155.21% larger than 2018 observed (81,399)

The 2019 forecast returning chinook to Fraser and Puget Sound (food available to SRKW) = 571,816 Chinook

Caloric Intake requirements for SRKW are per Noren (2010):

16,386 Kcal/Chinook
82 SRKW (yes I'm over-estimating the population) caloric requirements are 792 to 951 Chinook/day
SRKW are present approximately 150 days
Taking the high end of the estimated Chinook as prey requirement to sustain 82 SKRW range here's the calculation:

951 Chinook x 150 days = 142,500 Chinook required to meet caloric intake requirement to sustain SRKW

That is 25% of the entire 571,816 Chinook that will be swimming around within the key SRKW forage areas....so if SRKW are "starving" they must be pretty darn poor hunters...or is it there are way too many vessels in close proximity preventing SRKW from finding their prey?

Where do they come up with these forecasts? Test fishing? Or guessing?

 

[wildmanyeah]

Notice that the new forecast is for much higher returns...hoping the ENGO's crowd doesn't start telling fables connecting the higher returns to the Fraser to fishing restrictions...there are more coming than originally forecast.

If it fit their narrative they will use it as evidence.