Minimum Boat Requirements For Tuna Fishing 30 plus miles off shore

[harper44]

Once the bottom is in the water, dead rise has really nothing to do with PPI. Where us deep V guys lose is the tenderness or roll. My 24 degree hull will dip a scupper at the dock with nobody onboard if there's no fuel in the port tank. But you can put 1000lbs on the swim grid as long as its balanced and be fine.

 

[Sculpin]

Once the bottom is in the water, dead rise has really nothing to do with PPI. Where us deep V guys lose is the tenderness or roll. My 24 degree hull will dip a scupper at the dock with nobody onboard if there's no fuel in the port tank. But you can put 1000lbs on the swim grid as long as its balanced and be fine.

Tell that to my boat compared to the exact same boat with a 22 degree deadrise. My boats design will pack more weight guaranteed. Why are herring skiffs flat bottomed?

 

[harper44]

Tell that to my boat compared to the exact same boat with a 22 degree deadrise. My boats design will pack more weight guaranteed. Why are herring skiffs flat bottomed?

Your 15 degree boat will pack more because it is more stable at rest, like a herring skiff. Just saying that the two boats with the same load will immerse the Same amount if all else is equal.

 

[finaddict]

Your 15 degree boat will pack more because it is more stable at rest, like a herring skiff. Just saying that the two boats with the same load will immerse the Same amount if all else is equal.

Sorry Scul, Harper's right

Archimedes' principle (or Archimedes's principle) is a law of physics stating that the upward buoyant force exerted on a body immersed in a fluid is equal to the weight of the fluid the body displaces. In other words, an immersed object is buoyed up by a force equal to the weight of the fluid it actually displaces. Archimedes' principle is an important and underlying concept in the field of fluid mechanics.

 

[Degree of Freedom]

Buoyant force is equal to the mass of the water displaced...but you guys may be missing John's point...a deep v needs to sink further into the water to displace the same amount of water as a boat with a flatter bottom (a triangle has a smaller area than a square of equal width)

 

[finaddict]

Buoyant force is equal to the mass of the water displaced...but you guys may be missing John's point...a deep v needs to sink further into the water to displace the same amount of water as a boat with a flatter bottom (a triangle has a smaller area than a square of equal width)

Very true DF and if you are talking about two boats of equal length and beam then both you and Sculpin are correct. There are other factors that play as much into this discussion as well. Horsepower, torque and boat handling at planing speeds are all major influencing factors on boat carrying capacity and safe handling.


BTW gents, great discussion. I am soaking this up as much as I can. Thank you

 

[Aces]

There's no substitute for size, imo.

I use 4 large coolers for ice/tuna cuz i hate the smell and mess of in deck fish storage and macerator pumps that fail but i have the cockpit space. My boat doesn't doesn't react or ride much differently outbound or inbound.

I mat sound like an butt but if you're way out there in a small or poorly equipped boat or done your due dilligence and have problems you shouldn't expect much help.

 

[steel_dreamin]

(a triangle has a smaller area than a square of equal width)

planimetric area. And yes, John is correct. Really easy to visualize if you think of an overexaggerated V shape vs. a completely flat bottom. Put some scuppers at the same height above the keel and determine home much weight you have to add to each, respectfully, to have it sink to the scupper. Easy answer.

 

[harper44]

planimetric area. And yes, John is correct. Really easy to visualize if you think of an overexaggerated V shape vs. a completely flat bottom. Put some scuppers at the same height above the keel and determine home much weight you have to add to each, respectfully, to have it sink to the scupper. Easy answer.

You are absolutly correct. However, I would like to believe that the scuppers on two boats of same size and similar design with different deadrises are not equal in height above the keel but more likely equal in height below the rail or above the floor. Once the boat has been immerged above the chine, the PPI is more or less the same regardless of deadrise. If two boats are of the same size and have 1" from the water line to the scupper and you at X weight, both boats will drop the same amount as the waterline area does not change. I will agree however that in the deep V, due to roll and stability at rest, you will dip a scupper far more than in a modified V which exagerates the affect of adding weight. Deep V's generally need scuppers higher above the water line than modified V's of the same beam for this reason.

 

[tykkyt e blue]

hee hee, you're all missing the point... displacing water at rest is only part of the equation... once the hull is loaded to the point that the chines are wet, every hull acts the same with additional weight.
The real test is how they carry that extra load at planing speed - that's where deadrise angle makes the real difference in load capacity
( not trying to be dogmatic here.. just stirring the pot )

 

[Birdsnest]

So the less dead rise you have the easier you can plane a load but the rougher the ride. Does that summarize this basically? My boat is 28 degrees at the bow and goes to a 18 degree at the stern(dead rise). What does this mean in comparison to other boats? I have to say it always planes a load easily but I never really put much thought to this issue. Interesting thread.

 

[Birdsnest]

I mat sound like an butt but if you're way out there in a small or poorly equipped boat or done your due dilligence and have problems you shouldn't expect much help.

In addition to this comment it is fairly dangerous to tow another vessel in weather. I have not done it much and I would't be really excited about having to do it. Self rescue is pretty much a requirement. I'd much rather run in on my kicker then get towed. Towing can be sketchy. It is a desperate option.

 

[Wilbyfishing]

Continued from the Tuna Shootout thread:

My boat is a Weldcraft Ocean King and it is listed at 20 feet. It is far from an ocean king that is for sure but it is my boat and I like it and it fishes tuna for far less than most boats.(except skulpin, I think he is doing well on fuel as well) It is measure from the bow to the inside of the transome. It is another 2 feet to the outside of the transom then 2 more feet for pod/swim grid then 2 feet of motor. Call it what you will. I run a singe 200 opti and a 15 kicker. I am comfortable doing this and have already done the run in on the kicker 30 miles. It was nasty out to but there are so many other factors to consider. one advantage that I have in Tofino is that it is a SW run to where I fish and if there is going to be a blow it will 99.9% of the time be from the SE or the NW so I get to run in the trough give or take 20 degrees going there and coming back most of the time. This is advantageous. I think that twins is great but having 2 mains will not free you of some common show stoppers such as electrical problems or water in the fuel. I had to put new fuel vents on my boat and to my surprise on a tuna trip they took on allot of water and shut down everything. I luckily had the proper systems in place to remove water from the system and I now know how to drain water from the motor.
You can have the biggest boat in the fleet but if you do not know your boat and have not gone through some of the routine issues with boat motors or particular issues with the boat you own then it isnt a good time to go tuna fishing. Would I fish in an 18 foot boat? Yes but only if it was my boat that I have been running for a year or two and I had at least 2 buddy boats. But where I got 20 some days of tuna fishing in last year with my boat with a smaller boat I would have only gotten maybe 3 days where I knew the weather was absolutely immaculate. There are never any "sure things" when it comes to weather.
I am running out of time here.
18 feet....is pushing it a bit far I think. Some guys think I am under gunned but I a sure they would like to have my tuna fuel bill apposed tho thiers. lol

I did this in a hurry so bear with all the mistakes.

I am somewhat confused. The smallest Oceanking that Weldcraft makes is the 22 which is listed at 24 feet when the offshore bracket is included in the measurement. I have a 22ft Weldcraft Maverick 201 which is a very sea worthy vessel and on the right day could make it safely to and fro tuna grounds. It has a 225 honda, which could out run SOME WEATHER systems. But i would feel much safer in my 28ft Oceanking 26 (2ft of offshore bracket) equipped XM weather, radar, EPIRB, etc. Go with a buddy boat and leave a trip plan.

 

[harper44]

So the less dead rise you have the easier you can plane a load but the rougher the ride. Does that summarize this basically? My boat is 28 degrees at the bow and goes to a 18 degree at the stern(dead rise). What does this mean in comparison to other boats? I have to say it always planes a load easily but I never really put much thought to this issue. Interesting thread.

In comparison, My boat is 58 degrees at entry and 24 degrees at the transom. If we are running into a head sea, you will not find a monohull boat of the same size that rides as smooth. But drifting with the beam to sea and the roll is enough to make some of the most seasonned fisherman throw their lunch. That is really the tradeoff. The other big factor is horsepower required to plane a true deep V boat (or plane a load as you said). My boat for example, at 25' comes with twin F250's as standard power in the outboard version. When comparing that to most boats of the same size that is substantially more power required.

For me personally, the roll on drift doesnt bother me and I will take that trade-off any day of the week. But I couldnt speak for everyone and can see the benefits of a more moderate running surface.

 

[harper44]

Another thing to consider here, and there are many, is defining the length that is important. LOA is really a meaningless number unless you are calculating how much you owe the marina for moorage. The important number is LWL or length at the waterline.

 

[Birdsnest]

There is no perfect boat. Or ultimately the more you can pay the better the ride. I am happy with my boat.

I have always called by boat a fast action boat and now I know why. For one it is light and secondly it has that shallow dead rise which will really hug the sea surface while dead drifting.

 

[StriperCheif]

Ignoring the ballast, wide and shallow or narrow and deep means the vessel is very quick to roll and very hard to overturn and is stiff. And log shaped round bottomed means slow rolls and easy to overturn and tender. It pounds allot more and can become unstable much faster than a deep V.

 

[wolf]

ONE thing you guys really need to consider is your insurance coverage.... because if you get into trouble (god forbid) and someones losses a boat or worse you could be shiat out of luck as I know alot are only covered for min distances, you may want to all look at where your boundaries are, mine is covered for only 25 miles offshore so best to phone your insurance plan and get it looked after.

Good luck Wolf

 

[Birdsnest]

ONE thing you guys really need to consider is your insurance coverage.... because if you get into trouble (god forbid) and someones losses a boat or worse you could be shiat out of luck as I know alot are only covered for min distances, you may want to all look at where your boundaries are, mine is covered for only 25 miles offshore so best to phone your insurance plan and get it looked after.

Good luck Wolf

I've always had 200 miles under a guide policy even before I started fishing tuna. I was surprised when I checked. I am not a guide tho.

 

[trophywife]

I've always had 200 miles under a guide policy even before I started fishing tuna. I was surprised when I checked. I am not a guide tho.

please send me your provider via pm,,,mine is 25 miles unless i get a 60gT ticket