Marine electronics discussion (Lowrance and Airmar)

[craigbroening]

Hi Guys, wanted to raise some questions after doing some research on the topic without finding the answers I'm after. I'll provide details on what I have installed and then ask the questions.

Vessel is a Thunderjet Alexis Ocean Pro, 22 ft, 225 single suzuki engine.

I currently have installed on the forward sounder a Lowrance HDS 9 Gen 2 Touch. It has a 7 pin Navico/Lowrance Sonar that is just the stock transom transducer. It is attached to a NMEA 2k network where I have point 1, Suzuki engine interface, garmin reactor 40 kicker all within this network. This gives me engine data, fuel data, compass bearings for the reactor and the mfd.

The aft sounder is a Lowrance older HDS 8. It also has a 7 pin Lowrance/Navico 7 pin sonar with a stock transom transducer. It is attached to a secondary and seperate NMEA 2k network that is attached to only a lowrance/navico fuel flow sensor. I installed this to compare fuel flow data but is not in the nature of these questions.

I am wanting to install new transducers and also realize that I should probably upgrade at least one set of these MFDs. This year i'd like to get the Airmar p66 and put on the aft sounder. I want to do this because I'm on the fishing deck looking at that sounder more often than the forward sounder. Next year ill upgrade the forward MFD and put that MFD aft. With it Im thinking of adding the 165hw from airmar.

Question is will this older sounder run the p66? Does this make sense? Also if I combine the NMEA 2k networks will they both show the data from the p66?

Another question raised during my research is, It sounds like you shouldn't be running your transducer dry as it generates too much heat not not being in the water. How do you guys go about playing with settings and such or doing setup when your boat is out of water? Just disconnect it?

Pictures are of the units that are currently installed

 

[craigbroening]

I should maybe have mentioned that I have 3G radar attached to the net system as well.

 

[ship happens]

For your setup I don't know why 2 transducers would be nessesary. Either one of those units will run a p66. Can splice it right in or buy the adapters etc. Maybe replace the older mfd with one that will network with the front or just use a tablet for the rear and use the app. My 2c

 

[easydoesit]

Airmar P66 sounders have been around for a long time and are compatible with many Lowrance units. Airmar customer service can tell you if it’s compatible if the information is not posted on their site.

Lowrance Canada customer support I have found to be helpful as well.

FWIW I use two sonar transducers, one transom mount and one shoot through hull sonar. Always good to have a backup and the through hull works at planing speed. Not networked, so I have some redundancy.

 

[sly_karma]

I have similar hardware to OP, Gen 1 10" and Gen 2 7" Lowrance HDS units. They're both connected to same NMEA network, along with engine data. They're also connected to each other via their Ethernet ports, allowing them to share data from a single transom mounted Lowrance transducer. Mapping data is also shared from a single card. I can mix and match at will, any combo of charts, sonar and engine data on either screen.

It would simple plug & play to switch out the OEM transducer for an Airmar and have both MFDs see its data. Or it could be installed alongside the existing transducer and plugged into whichever MFD has an unused sonar port. With them networked together, either transducer could be selected as the data source for either - or both - MFD displays.

 

[ship happens]

Doesn't matter what form factor your transducer is they still all work the exact same way. A standard 600 watt transducer is exactly that. It will run 50 or 200hz. Or whatever in between the sounder (mfd) is set to. So running 2 pointless because they can't run the same frequency or else they will interfere with the pulses.

Think of it like this.. the mfd or sounder module is the amplifier. The transducer is the speaker / microphone. The sounder module is sending a pulse of a wavelength and looking for feedback. That feedback is what your depth is etc. It's more complicated then that but that's the basics to understanding the physics of how it works.

Keep it simple

 

[wildthing]

get another gen 2 and no issues with the p66 .... then later date just update your head units to a matching pr and then go to TM165 HW and still keep your P66

 

[CBsqrd]

1) running the P66 off the older sounder won't be a problem. As @easydoesit mentioned, those transducers have been around (and have been popular on the West Coast) for a long time.

2) Your NMEA network isn't compatible with sonar images. NMEA 2K networks are for information requiring little bandwidth - GPS and nav info, engine data, heading, stereo, lighting, etc. Yes, you can join the two NMEA networks and share all the info from your fuel flow sensors etc. in one network.

If you want to share information between head units for high bandwidth data - i.e. things like sonar and radar that generate lots of data - then you will need to do this via an ethernet network. The NEP-2 unit in the first picture is the Lowrance ethernet hub. Connect your two head units to this and (if not already) and you should be good to go.

3) Definitely don't want to be running your transducer out of the water. There should be a quick way to turn the transmit on and off from the HDS.

 

[craigbroening]

Ok so the way I think I will do it is this. I appreciate redundancy a lot. So that will be my goal. If I understand it correctly I can use the P66 to feed both mfds using the ethernet option as both mfds either need their own transducers or they can share one on this network. I will leave one of the original transducers in place (disconnected but redundant if some kind of failure were to occur). Then next year I will get the 165hw and keep them both separate. Does anyone know if the Gen 2 touch supports the 165Hw chirp? I will be calling Airmar on Monday to confirm all of this and will report back but someone on here might already know.

New question. Connecting the second mfd through the ethernet network, is this hard to do? Or just plug and play? Thanks again fellas.

 

[macro]

Buy @wildthing sonar hub. Can network the units off of it, and it can with the hds gen 2 touch support chirp, which means you can run a tm150 which is an excellent chirp transducer..

 

[Howzer]

Or... rather than spending a ton of money upgrading MFD's, you can buy a new fish-finder with sidescan transducer...

 

[macro]

Or... rather than spending a ton of money upgrading MFD's, you can buy a new fish-finder with sidescan transducer...

The touch supports side scan as well as down imaging via the lss 2. I think if it's a buy once cry once type thing, the OP could get the 165 hw and sonar hub manually set the xducer type to tm150, it's close enough frequency that it should work just at 300w not 600. When a deal for a carbon or newer comes up he can replace the mfd and everything else will still work. The sonar hub is still getting updates and is handy for the additional sonar channel.

 

[sly_karma]

New question. Connecting the second mfd through the ethernet network, is this hard to do? Or just plug and play? Thanks again fefellas.

It was simple plug and play when I did it a few years back. I dont have a hub, the two HDS units are connected directly to each other. Then just a matter of selecting data source/s in the options menu of each MFD.

I'm told there are more options available by going the hub route, but it does work in the display-to-display configuration.

 

[macro]

Doesn't matter what form factor your transducer is they still all work the exact same way. A standard 600 watt transducer is exactly that. It will run 50 or 200hz. Or whatever in between the sounder (mfd) is set to. So running 2 pointless because they can't run the same frequency or else they will interfere with the pulses.

Think of it like this.. the mfd or sounder module is the amplifier. The transducer is the speaker / microphone. The sounder module is sending a pulse of a wavelength and looking for feedback. That feedback is what your depth is etc. It's more complicated then that but that's the basics to understanding the physics of how it works.

Keep it simple

Yes.. and no. Two transducers running same frequency .. generally pointless and leads to interference. However frequencies and cone angles come into play. Could run one at 70 and the other at 200 for instance and no issues.

It was simple plug and play when I did it a few years back. I dont have a hub, the two HDS units are connected directly to each other. Then just a matter of selecting data source/s in the options menu of each MFD.

I'm told there are more options available by going the hub route, but it does work in the display-to-display configuration.

Only thing may be to update both units to the latest code they both support, may allow for better operability between them. But lowrance / simrad / navico are **** with documentation / release notes.

 

[macro]

get another gen 2 and no issues with the p66 .... then later date just update your head units to a matching pr and then go to TM165 HW and still keep your P66

What xducers are you running for your electronic warfare now?

 

[ship happens]

Yes.. and no. Two transducers running same frequency .. generally pointless and leads to interference. However frequencies and cone angles come into play. Could run one at 70 and the other at 200 for instance and no issues.



Only thing may be to update both units to the latest code they both support, may allow for better operability between them. But lowrance / simrad / navico are **** with documentation / release notes.