Many people release the big halis?
- Thread starter bushwackin
- Start date
Red Carey
Member
X2 on that Yo Mama.
Any sportsman should follow their own beliefs as long as they're inside the parameters of the current regulations.
Everyone is also free to lobby the regulatory body to modify or change the current regulations. This is why we are fortunate in Canada to be able to participate in the system (albeit frustrating due to the perceived vocal minority ruling over the perceived quiet majority) and be free from retribution.
Any sportsman should follow their own beliefs as long as they're inside the parameters of the current regulations.
Everyone is also free to lobby the regulatory body to modify or change the current regulations. This is why we are fortunate in Canada to be able to participate in the system (albeit frustrating due to the perceived vocal minority ruling over the perceived quiet majority) and be free from retribution.
Gunsmith
Well-Known Member
This discussion goes all the way back to our knuckle dragging days when the conservative hunters brought back their kills to the campfire where all the liberals were sitting waiting to share the spoils as they could not hunt as it was against their beliefs. Many times the fire went out as they did not know how to fetch wood.
Charlie
Well-Known Member
Can I have some? No "cheese" please. I think DFO is providing enough of the cheese for everyone!
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Saxe point. If you live in this area you must drive arround with your eyes closed.lol The first nations around here aren't in poverty. They are the richest kids on the block! Do you truly believe that "Thier economic options are so limited that they need to catch a fish to to eat (or else they go hungry)"?? You must live in Ottawa. That's it.
Where I was going with all this is that when the abillity to market fishing to sportsfishermen is gone: The masses arent going to flood to the westcoast and pay good money to go catch and release halibut and salmon year after year. Been there done that. The vallu to the experience is getting your own food and not eating out of a can. Most sportfishermen take the food home and pakage it with love. It's a primal act that should be a right for ALL canadians to enjoy. Why should the taxpaying public be excluded from access to having resonable portion of the marine resources for sustinance? Should I as a fishing guide be put out of businness or broke first before being allowed to fish for what you are calling sustinance? Why not, Because of the economical benefit and low impact on fish stocks, Prioratise sport fishing access to fish. Thats what I would consider intelegent managment for a sustainable fishery and economic future. Perhaps the supreame court doesn't have the consideration or concern for the intrest of the average Joe taxpayer in this country. You must have more faith in the system than me. Those people making all the decisions are personaly set for life with govt jobs and pentions. Why would they care about the guy that has to work and support the country. Just my opinion.
Saxe I do think you are pulling my leg a little here. There is no need for you to reveal your occupation if you are afraid of recognition. I'm guessing you work for dfo. Yup. If you were a regular working taxpayer you would be just as pissed off as the rest of us at all the b.s. in this country. I don't believe for a second that a person that has nothing in anything connected to sportfishing, commercial or subsistence fishing would be hanging out on a sportfishing forum monotoring and reciting supream court case law or constatutional rights that regulate such issues. Do you???LOL
Where I was going with all this is that when the abillity to market fishing to sportsfishermen is gone: The masses arent going to flood to the westcoast and pay good money to go catch and release halibut and salmon year after year. Been there done that. The vallu to the experience is getting your own food and not eating out of a can. Most sportfishermen take the food home and pakage it with love. It's a primal act that should be a right for ALL canadians to enjoy. Why should the taxpaying public be excluded from access to having resonable portion of the marine resources for sustinance? Should I as a fishing guide be put out of businness or broke first before being allowed to fish for what you are calling sustinance? Why not, Because of the economical benefit and low impact on fish stocks, Prioratise sport fishing access to fish. Thats what I would consider intelegent managment for a sustainable fishery and economic future. Perhaps the supreame court doesn't have the consideration or concern for the intrest of the average Joe taxpayer in this country. You must have more faith in the system than me. Those people making all the decisions are personaly set for life with govt jobs and pentions. Why would they care about the guy that has to work and support the country. Just my opinion.
Saxe I do think you are pulling my leg a little here. There is no need for you to reveal your occupation if you are afraid of recognition. I'm guessing you work for dfo. Yup. If you were a regular working taxpayer you would be just as pissed off as the rest of us at all the b.s. in this country. I don't believe for a second that a person that has nothing in anything connected to sportfishing, commercial or subsistence fishing would be hanging out on a sportfishing forum monotoring and reciting supream court case law or constatutional rights that regulate such issues. Do you???LOL
Englishman
Well-Known Member
Errrrm….since this thread has turned a little political. I think you will find it is the conservatives who are fully behind the ocean devastating salmon feed lots, want to build the oil pipeline through 200 B.C .watersheds, have oil super tankers plying the Queen Charlotte strait etc etc. The conservatives don’t want to conserve anything, including hunting and recreational fishing, if it gets in the way of making a buck. Especially if it is getting in the way…..
Gunsmith
Well-Known Member
I was not really refering to the political type as no party here in Canada actually follows the party line. They are all just a bunch of money wasters. I do agree with your statement with minor changes as provincial lieberals are supporting fish farms and giving away public lands to power producers who will screw up salmon spawning rivers to produce power for their own monetary gain.
Saxe Point
Well-Known Member
Where to begin?
First, I am amazed at your inability to deal with, let alone refute, the merits of the arguments in support of the simple point I made. Instead of acknowledging the obvious, namely that depending on the circumstances, some people might have a greater moral or ethical claim to a limited resource than others, you insist on perceiving this as some personal slight to you and your belief that sportfishing is fundamentally about the "primal act" of "getting your own food and not eating out of can." There are steelheaders who pay as much as any sportfisherman to catch and release, as do many who pursue billfish in southern areas. These people come back year after year, but they catch and release. Maybe there is more to the sportfishing experience than killing the quarry, at least for some. It's got to be more than just getting your own food and not eating out of a can, or people would pay farmers for the experience of raising and butchering cattle, pigs and chickens. But more to the point, subsistence fishing means you need to fish for food because there are no cans of food to turn to!
Now, let me repeat again, I catch some fish, release some and kill some. But I think it's laughable to say, as suggested by Gunsmith, that someone who catches and releases all their fish is somehow less capable, sporting, manly or whatever he is trying to say. His theory is that in the "knuckledragging" days, the "conservative" was the resourceful and successful hunter, while the "liberal" didn't hunt because of his beliefs, and was too dumb to find wood. Now there's a profound synthesis of human anthropology! Lots could be said about the Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution, modern medicine etc., to show that the anti-intellectualism inherent in that statement is not responsible for much of the advancement of western civilization. But Gunsmith might want think about what he said; until the arrival of agriculture, all hunting and fishing was subsistence and the concept of doing it for sport just wasn't an option. That helps prove my point.
Second, Fishmyster, why do you insist on attacking me rather than addressing the arguments I make? It's pretty clear that you don't like the way the west coast fisheries are being managed, but you can't understand that I am not defending or criticizing management of the fisheries. As I said in my last post, it's about moral or ethical claims, not even legal ones. And I even said that yours is probably greater than that of many. Legal entitlements are different again and may not necessarily coincide with the moral or ethical.
Instead of addressing the arguments in a rational way, you want to "out" me as someone in Ottawa (nope, BC) or working for DFO (wrong again) or not being a regular working taxpayer (I work and pay taxes!). Because, according to you, none of these people could possibly see things any differently than you and be right, just because of who they are, not what they say. That's just wrong. But it's it's hard work to refute arguments and a lot easier to just assign me a stereotype, like Gunsmith, and say that "those people" don't understand. Instead of explaining why you believe my point was wrong, you proceed to fail to even understand the point and instead see only what you want to see. What's worse, what does my job, or yours, have to do with the discussion? I'll judge your arguments based only on their substance, or lack thereof, not what you do for a living, or where you live, or if you pay or don't pay taxes. But you don't seem to be prepared to so the same, or are you?
Third, let's talk stereotypes again. I always drive with my eyes open, but I'm careful to not draw over-broad conclusions bases on what I see. It's always helpful to look at all the evidence. The non-partisan research institute Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives did just that in their recent study entitled "THE INCOME GAP BETWEEN ABORIGINAL PEOPLES AND THE REST OF CANADA", which was published in 2010. Its findings are based on the median incomes of aboriginal people found in census data going back to 1996. You can read the whole report on the internet, but the relevant points from the Executive Summary are:
"This study breaks new ground by examining data from Canada’s last three censuses — 1996, 2001 and 2006 — to measure the income gap between Aboriginal peoples and the rest of Canadians.
Not only has the legacy of colonialism left Aboriginal peoples disproportionately ranked among the poorest of Canadians, this study reveals disturbing levels of income
inequality persist as well."...
"While income disparity between Aboriginal peoples and the rest of Canadians narrowed slightly between 1996 and 2006, at this rate it would take 63 years for the gap to be erased."...
"The study reveals income inequality persists no matter where Aboriginal peoples live in Canada."...
If you want to criticize the study, do it rationally and based on evidence. Saying that it was written by people from a certain part of the country, who work for certain organizations, or that they have gold-plated pensions and don't pay taxes isn't going to persuade anyone.
The fishing rights of First Nations were not part of my original point anyway. Their genesis is rather more complex than mere subsistence. My point, if you look at it carefully, was a lot simpler.
Now, do you want to address the substance of the arguments, or are you just going to take the easy way out and write me off as a DFO staffer who lives in Ottawa and doesn't pay any taxes? Knuckle dragging indeed!!LOL
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Studies, court rulings, statutory rights, the hallmark of a guy works behind a desk rather than out in the field. Soon you will be showing me bar and pie graphs to try to convince me that others need the fish more than the rest.lol I already know that on paper sportfishermen are last on the pecking order. That’s old. I personally feel that the sportfishing taxpayer that works in the sportfishing industry should be of equal importance to the rest! Yes, morally, ethically being this day and age I feel sportfishermen should have an equal claim to the limited resource. Most sportfishermen would probably agree with me that our needs are as important as anybody else’s. This is about our hunting and gathering heritage as Canadians. How many generations back does a sportfishermans lineage have to go to place them higher up the pole? What fee could he pay or how do we get gifted a fair share of the resources? Saxe, why aren’t you supporting the rest of us here??? I thought you were a sportsfisherman too.
You claim that steelhead fishermen come back year after year and that there is more to fishing than harvesting. With all your ability to dig up formal info why don’t you dig the stats and compare how many steelhead stamps get sold on v.i. as apposed to saltwater and freshwater salmon stamps every year. They will show that harvesting is way more popular than c&r. If you feel that molesting fish to just release anyway is more of what sportfishing is about than that is your opinion and you are a minority. Most of the general public believes in harvesting. I hope this address your points correctly. The stats won’t lie.
I by no means think that the First Nations should not be entitled to all the fishing rights that they have. Catching, processing for subsistence and bartering is part of their heritage and it is great that may still partake in it. My personal lifes experiences have proved that many of the First Nations people that really “NEED” the fish for subsistence never see a single piece of their local bands allotment while others are enjoying a prosperous commercial fishery.
Saxe, I’m not trying to attack you but I do definitely disagree with you. What you do for work is of importance to me so I can understand where you are coming from with your points. You are on a sportfishing forum trying to convince sportfishermen that they don’t really need fish like the others. What do you expect, support? Anybody can hide behind some internet alias and argue their points but, if you reveal your occupation and reason for involvement in this discussion your points may have a hell of a lot more clout with me. Let’s start with me. Hi my name is Ken. I was born and raised in the Port Alberni area. I have been employed as a sport or commercial fishermen for the last 27 years. Fishing and hunting are also my main hobbies. See that’s not so bad!
P.S. Saxe, I don’t mean to drive you nuts
You claim that steelhead fishermen come back year after year and that there is more to fishing than harvesting. With all your ability to dig up formal info why don’t you dig the stats and compare how many steelhead stamps get sold on v.i. as apposed to saltwater and freshwater salmon stamps every year. They will show that harvesting is way more popular than c&r. If you feel that molesting fish to just release anyway is more of what sportfishing is about than that is your opinion and you are a minority. Most of the general public believes in harvesting. I hope this address your points correctly. The stats won’t lie.
I by no means think that the First Nations should not be entitled to all the fishing rights that they have. Catching, processing for subsistence and bartering is part of their heritage and it is great that may still partake in it. My personal lifes experiences have proved that many of the First Nations people that really “NEED” the fish for subsistence never see a single piece of their local bands allotment while others are enjoying a prosperous commercial fishery.
Saxe, I’m not trying to attack you but I do definitely disagree with you. What you do for work is of importance to me so I can understand where you are coming from with your points. You are on a sportfishing forum trying to convince sportfishermen that they don’t really need fish like the others. What do you expect, support? Anybody can hide behind some internet alias and argue their points but, if you reveal your occupation and reason for involvement in this discussion your points may have a hell of a lot more clout with me. Let’s start with me. Hi my name is Ken. I was born and raised in the Port Alberni area. I have been employed as a sport or commercial fishermen for the last 27 years. Fishing and hunting are also my main hobbies. See that’s not so bad!
P.S. Saxe, I don’t mean to drive you nuts
Gunsmith
Well-Known Member
finaddict
Well-Known Member
Make a lot Lippy. and bring out a few beers and a plate of sliced meats and cheese and crackers while you're at it. This could get really good.
T
tortuga
Guest
So don't spoil your children becauase they will want to rely on others for handouts and won't learn to fend for themselves.
Got it.
firelight
Active Member
I've never been in the situation of having any halibut over 60 lbs. to the boat so I can't really say what I would do if I ever hooked into a barn door.[/QUOTE]
this is the situation I am in, I've said that I would release it but you never know what might come over you at the time. Maybe also if I had a derby ticket in my pocket that might tip the scales a bit.
this is the situation I am in, I've said that I would release it but you never know what might come over you at the time. Maybe also if I had a derby ticket in my pocket that might tip the scales a bit.
banger17
Well-Known Member
biggest for me, 45 lbs and that was a thrill. If I was lucky enough to catch a big'un, I am not sure what i would do... first thing would be to clean myself up as i would probably **** my pants with excitement, THEN make a quick decision on what to do. I would like to say I would release it, but cant guarantee that as it would probably be a fish of a lifetime.
I would remember this thread however, as i was either killing it or releasing it...
throw some pepperoni on that sliced meat tray with some Phillips beer and we have a deal Finaddict and Lippy.
I would remember this thread however, as i was either killing it or releasing it...
throw some pepperoni on that sliced meat tray with some Phillips beer and we have a deal Finaddict and Lippy.
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