licence required for saltwater guides?

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rainbow one

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As there are so many saltwater guides on this forum I would like to know if the guides need to have a saltwater guide licence? If so, what is the governing body that controls and issues these licences?
I was informed that there is no guiding licence required for saltwater; Is this true?

RO
 
No special license required yet.
 
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13734

Intruder2-2.jpg


20ft Alumaweld Intruder
 
No guide license...but there should be. The current requirement is to meet Transport Canada's vessel safety standards, and crew training. There is a new program offered through SFI for new guides to the industry which provides guide training and combines in all the safety training (5 days currently). Not all guides have the training, or have ensured their boats comply with the TC regulations.[xx(] There are still a lot of fly by night guys doing the charter thing for gas money.[:o)][:o)]

This is a dangerous situation because the consumer has no clue, some just look for the cheapest price they can get and take their chance. Its dangerous on the water even with all your safety training and vessel requirements met...without it, is just an accident looking for some place to happen.[xx(] We are all hoping there will be some enforcement on the water that holds guys accountable to do the right thing.

Searun

th_067.jpg
 
As it stands now you will need.Marinefirstaid levelonefirstaid.Your boat operators card and your SVOP and ROC restricted and last your MEDA3 tightlines Snowwhite
 
My understanding is that there are going to be some DFO meetings starting early next month around the licensing issue. I am curious how many guides would like to go to a limited license?

Personally I would welcome it as it would give me something of value at the end of the day and would also help keep the fly by nights out of the business.
 
I think that a certification of some kind is due. I take my hat off to those who guide, myself do not have the patience to deal with the various types that are encountered.
The certification should be just as valid as a mechanic ticket.
Just my opinion.[8D][8D]

IMG_1445.jpg
 
Interesting thoughts here.

Safety isn't the issue when it comes to guided fishing trips. Over the guided portion of the industry in BC has a very very good safety record. So...if you need a "guides license"....as if people intend to make money with this stuff...then we need to set up a whole new government branch...because this is going to have to be regulated. These new transport Canada regulations aren't going to improve the safety record either...and if you believe so, you're sadly mistaken.

So...with that in mind, I say...for those wanting a license...then let's bring it on....because then it's a business expense...a COST of doing business.....if it's going to be taken seriously.... it's going to have to COST something. Licenses need renewing, so there's another fact to consider.

If a "guide's license" is intended to seperate the men from the boys and eliminate "fly by nighters".....then let's bring it on. I believe it is this regulation which will slit many peoples throat.

So..with that in mind...if you want to be a licensed guide, you're going to have to be guiding on a Transport Canada Inspected vessel then, otherwise, your guide certification doesn't mean jack.

Since, a "guiding license" as people want to call it is designed to make people "elite" then, let's make it elite priced too...

I know in Washington State that guide licenses/charter operators only come up for sale once in a BLUE moon for the chuck.

If that's what you guys want, then the price should be $250000 per licensed guide because it's not about safety, it's not about sport, it's about BUSINESS.

Sport Fishing Institute of BC...what a JOKE! [}:)]
 
Have had e-mail contact with SFI and I have been told that even if you have all the courses needed, ie...SVOP, ROC, MED3 to be in compliance with TC you are going to have to challenge their TAG program in order to be licenced, once the course if offical. I am not understanging this, if I already have the SVOP why would I have to challenge the same course through SFI, and it will cost you to do so too!

Anyone else have any info on this or whether or not this is true. Does not make sense to me, a course is a course no matter how someone attains it.

www.bearcovecottages.ca
Port Hardy BC
Canada
 
quote:Originally posted by Bear Cove

Have had e-mail contact with SFI and I have been told that even if you have all the courses needed, ie...SVOP, ROC, MED3 to be in compliance with TC you are going to have to challenge their TAG program in order to be licenced, once the course if offical. I am not understanging this, if I already have the SVOP why would I have to challenge the same course through SFI, and it will cost you to do so too!

Anyone else have any info on this or whether or not this is true. Does not make sense to me, a course is a course no matter how someone attains it.

www.bearcovecottages.ca
Port Hardy BC
Canada

The SFI has no standing. If you meet all the Transport Canada, DFO and other regulations and are conducting yourself within the laws of the country, SFI does not mean Sweet NOTHING and you can open your own lodge, charter boat operation, or contract yourself out as a guide.

SFI's little marketing stink has and means nothing to nobody except for business owners of lodges and charter operations who PAY to be a member of their "little boys club". It's branding. If you want a McDonald's style or "Cracker Jack" Box Guide, you take SFI's course which isn't even being taught by instructors or professionals accredited by the Ministry of Education!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whatever.. [B)]
 
FM,

Thanks for that, I was only assuming that the courses I had would stand up and would not have to challenge them again. Bit of a money grab and trying to scare people into signing up with them.

Thanks for the info.

www.bearcovecottages.ca
Port Hardy BC
Canada
 
Here is a note I recieved from a close source to the topic today.
The source shall remain un-named as promised.

When the program fully launches there will be a challenge course offered that will consist of 1 day of review and a half day assessment. Requirements for eligibility for that challenge will be possession of the three courses and likely 100 hours of guiding experience. It looks like the price for that will be approximately 120.00.

I will be providing updates regarding status of the program whenever I get them.


Just as I also thought...a huge money grab.
I think that those of us that already have all the proper course load and self-inspected boats should all be grandfathered.
Challenge what I ask?


www.coastwidesportsfishing.com

http://ca.video.yahoo.com/watch/4726988?fr=yvmtf
 
quote:159 Posts
Posted - 02/10/2010 : 08:18:39
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My understanding is that there are going to be some DFO meetings starting early next month around the licensing issue. I am curious how many guides would like to go to a limited license?

Personally I would welcome it as it would give me something of value at the end of the day and would also help keep the fly by nights out of the business.



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Edited by - fish4all on 02/10/2010 13:31:30

Whether for it or not, I would tend to think it would just create more unnecessary conflict and confusion, pushing the "fly by nighters" further undercover and in disguise. May stop the underground operators from outside Canada from guiding out of Nootka, but really who would "inforce this Guide License" DFO....Saw them maybe twice on the water in 5 years now.

With the amount of money many including me, have spent on TC certification 5,6,7,8 years ago, it is kick in the knickers to have to Challenge the SFI TAG program just to fit in and say look at me "Im Licenced with SFI". Spent about enough now id say[xx(] On another note, the TAG program is a great option if you are wanting to get it all done and over with now or perhaps just getting into the game.

www.tailspincharters.com
 
Cheers All,

Been an interesting read on this subject. A few comments if I may:

The SFI institute is offering and supporting the TAG program. It is not manadatory and those with previous Transport Canada qualifications (i.e., Med2/3, ROC-M, SVOP, Marine Standard First Aid) that are currently necessary for conducting passenger traffic - which is what TC calls anything where the guests pay - will suffice to Guide in BC. Full Stop. Of course guides are still required to have TC complience with any vessel that they opperate irrespective of where they obtain their individual certifications.

The benefit of this course is that if one is new to this industry (Guiding) they can obtain all their qualifications in one spot over one short period and go right into being 'TC Complient'. It is interesting the amount of info in this course extraneous to fishing and conducted towards being a BC Host and marketing the Province of BC . Ultimately the person - once successful through this course or any other - can guide in BC as we currently do not have a license requirement for salt water.

The short answer is you do not "NEED" this course to guide in BC. My issue is that if the SFI begins aggressive marketing of this program - especially in combination with different governmental departments and the resulting "Professional" stature that ONLY TAG Guides can provide, it will place any other guide - TC Complient or not - at a serious disadvantage. Once consumers begin looking for that 'TAG' designation it will require one to have it to be on the cutting edge of marketing. Those without may suffer negative effects. I am going to wait to see how this program is developed and the marketing being done, or that which may be done, before I determine my course of action. If SFI and the BC Government begin aggressive marketing of the "Professional Tag Guides of BC" one would certainly have to consider challenging the course. Not that one would necessarily 'gain' any knowledge from the course but simply to be able to compete in a market share.

Certainly I could make the arguement that any fee to challenge this "TAG" standing is a money grab - especially for the many guides who have thousands of successful hours on the water. It speaks volumes that they are still here despite years of governmental mis-management of a common resource or the many years of exposure to the multiple risks upon the waters. However, ultimately, if one looks past the nature of the request and understands what it truely is - the beginnings of an introduction into Guide Licensing - one might take pause to reconsider objections.

I have no problem being evaluated by an independent authority who will objectively determine my complience to safely guide guests in a professional fashion within the saltwater confines of BC. However, I would then ask - in return for that assessment and the time and financial investment for that assessment - that those who do not pass such assessments (either through failure of the assessment or failure to be assessed) be specifially barred from operating within BC at the risk of significant fines and loss of boats and equipment and, further, that any insurance they have be in possession of be deemed 'null, void and without force or effect'. I would also request that there be a significant and prolongued advertising of the attributes of TAG Guides along with their web sites or contact info. If and when this were to occur I would respectfully suggest that the benefits would far outweigh the inconvenience and worth the cost of $120.00 or similiar (fully tax deductable) costs.


Fishing Guide
www.invictuscharters.com
BC Outdoors Pro Staff
www.fishingvancouverisland.org
 
Last year there was a death at Dent Island Lodge, and there have been other unfortunate events like this over the years. I am sure the last thing lodge owners want, and possibly their employees and local governments, is the negative publicity that goes along with a few dead or injured clients.

One one hand we hear about the skill and experience that is needed to navigate a vessel while under hire, and then on the other hand complaints about regulation to enforce the requirement for such skills. Can't have it both ways. Public interest will win out, and thus, licensure is only a matter of time.
 
interesting topic , I disagree with "fishing Magician " that regulation will not make the industry safer. If you make the comparison to the whalewatching business in Victoria where there are some pretty tough regulations for the operators from Transport Canada there has never been a accident causing a loss of life. If you look at the number of boat hours and the number of people transported it is probably one of the safest water related businesses in the world.I give credit to TC for implementing regulations.

Training is all about behaviour modification. Forcing people to do things as a regular habit , so when the ****e hits the fan and your boat is sinking or whatever you have a clue as to what to do.

That said , some of the TC courses could use a rewrite and focus a little more on the practical skills instead of theory.
 
quote:Originally posted by salmon9

Last year there was a death at Dent Island Lodge, and there have been other unfortunate events like this over the years. I am sure the last thing lodge owners want, and possibly their employees and local governments, is the negative publicity that goes along with a few dead or injured clients.

One one hand we hear about the skill and experience that is needed to navigate a vessel while under hire, and then on the other hand complaints about regulation to enforce the requirement for such skills. Can't have it both ways. Public interest will win out, and thus, licensure is only a matter of time.

WHAT public pressure?! Never heard of any such thing. Dead or injured clients?! On a guided vessel? VERY VERY few and far in between. i.e. Changing any thru hulls to bronze from plastic isn't going to do diddley squat as well as adding rails of a certain height... .....you can't regulate good judgement!!!!

All marine accidents are the result of many contributing factors...and for each factor....someone was ignorant to these factors. Of the deaths involving guided vessels...POOOR judgement on the part of MANY people was the cause. It is NEVER the "water's fault"...or the "wiring's fault"...it's the PEOPLE'S fault.

If you don't understand this concept, you shouldn't be on the water, PERIOD. Although, you may get lucky enough to escape with your life when it eventually happens to you.
 
I say bring it but when is the courses going to stop enough already we are just taking people fishing.I dont need to know that in the arctic you have to take the edible parts of a walrus out with you????thats one of the thing I learned very valuable info I must say. or knowing halon has been banned on boats since the the late 60s and the 70s.
I just wish that there was something that was specific to what we do instead of alot of stuff we will never ever use.

It really seems like a make work project back in ottawa and im sure there will be another one down the road, maybe we can take something for when there is no fish biting and what to do in that emergency???
LOL

wolf
 
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