Liberals to ban fishing in BC?
- Thread starter IronNoggin
- Start date
SpringFever2359
Well-Known Member
This comment won't age well,
So tell us your brilliant insight into the future of recreational fishing for all non indigenous fishers on the forum because we've all seen more and more restrictions with no end in sight
scott craven
Well-Known Member
Global politicians working to impose changes to a way of life they know nothing about.
They need to manage their own backyards and let BC manage itself.
They need to manage their own backyards and let BC manage itself.
When the non FN fishery is shut down, and we are kicked off the water, we will still be paying for the fishery with our tax dollars. Is this good value for are hard earned money?
Not at all but it seems to be the way the current Federal and Provincial governments are going. Pay more and get less ...... truly sad.
Part 1.
1. You **** on DFO but do you know about the day in, day out operations that take place year round? You all complain about closures as if there is no scientific data that could have lead to their decision making. Yes, they can do better but here is some insight in case you are unaware.
- Coded wire tagging, DNA collection, marked salmon head recovery (which should be mandatory just like if you were to get an LEH of an elk, moose, etc. a type of compulsory regulation, especially for guides).
- Commercial fisherman in BC alternate turns handing in marked fish heads. How is it not mandatory for all of them to hand in all of them?
- Test fisheries are done every year. While not always accurate they are at least an attempt. These fisheries also allow DFO employees to go onto these boats, catch fish, take DNA and report it.
- Dead pitch on all indicator streams during the fall salmon return. Every day, hatchery workers are walking the river banks looking for dead fish to measure, DNA sample, otoliths, marked fish heads. These workers are dealing with the most disgusting, foul dead fish you can think of.
- Community advisor programs for smaller streams and lesser known systems. Some of these systems have the most basic things you can think of that contribute to enhancement. Essentially incubator boxes sitting in streams.
- Creel surveyors. The amount of disrespect to some of these, mostly young kids is wild. They are not there to report you, they are not there to regulate you. They ask basic questions, species, location caught, they take lengths, etc. This data is so helpful and yet people treat them like an enemy. I've witnessed it myself and I just don't understand.
- Catching, tagging, releasing salmon at sea. Tracking where they go, when they disappear, what system to return to, what are they doing out there and so much more. These are done every year.
- DFO literally boats to all the smaller systems uses underwater drones, normal drones, flies them over wild streams to get estimates of fish numbers. Not only this, but install fish fences on some of these systems to make sure they can get accurate numbers that are returning.
- They dumped roughly 10 million into NMT trailers to mark and tag fish. Conuma, Robertson are all mass marked. These trailers mark over 10 million fish during the spring in BC for all of you to harvest.
- Countless studies are done every year, PIT/CWT tagging Coho and Chinook to see what release programs work the best. It's been shown that West Coast sea pens are far more successful than East Coast sea pens due to predation of seals.
I am sure I've missed a few things. But these are just SOME of the efforts that are done that lead to closures. This video above is beyond aggravating because it does not mention the efforts that are actually being made, instead it focuses on employment loss. Which sure, bummer but these individuals rely on a natural resource for a living. Do you think there are just endless fish out there? Loggers, miners and oil/gas, fisherman are all alike. Eventually the natural resource cannot handle the pressure and changes will need to be made in order to preserve them. Fortunately, the cycle of salmon is fairly quick compared to lets say, tree growth. You give them time and they will bounce back but you have to relieve the pressure and allow them to do so. How can you oppose this? What is the argument against that?
Part 2
There are solutions as well to better help us understand salmon, which will still lack so much knowledge.
- Mandatory head recovery. The lack of data we are missing from these fish is insane. Even if each fishing guide was given a small metal detector/wand on their boat. You bonk the hatchery fish, you scan the fish head, it beeps, you take the fish head to hand in at the end of the day. Throw that sucker into a tote. If it doesn't beep? Carry on as normal. Or even have one of these machines at every marina at the cutting table that we all know they have. Each of these fish provide invaluable data. What hatchery did they come from? What release program were they from? (Sea pens, early release, late release) This could be for recreational, FN and commercial guides. Otherwise we spend the money on tags that are expensive as all hell, tag the fish, release the fish and then never get any data. What a waste of money and stress on the fish.
- Instead of paying the American company NMT for their trailers, parts, tags, etc. Which we pay duty on, tariffs and a premium price just because they have the monopoly. Develop this in house. Many of these trailer parts can be made with a CNC machine. Even if you don't want to use trailers. Many hatcheries have unused buildings or rooms. These rooms can be updated to accommodate the same system where hatchery staff can do the same thing but in their building and save the hassle of paying the trailers to move around and be on an insanely tight schedule. Not only that but you are paying them to travel, work long hours, huge labour costs for the amount of people it takes to mark fish that the trailer cannot mark.
- Mass marking fish. Period. Relieve the pressure from wild stocks. This has been an ongoing talk the last 2 years for the ECVI and due to the current governments budget cuts, it will be just that again this year. Just talks. Hopefully next year but as each year passes, that's another 3-5 years you must wait to see the returns on the investment.
- Get rid of Tyee club related fisheries. Yes, everyone loves the story that Dave posts. (I think it's Dave) but you cannot fathom they have no impact? Yes, few numbers are caught but so what? Those fish are more than likely going to survive to spawn as the Quinsam/Campbell are such small systems. We cannot complain about no big fish if you are targeting what big fish remain. You are no better than a commercial/FN terminal fishery at that point.
- Better communication between all groups. Commercial, Sports, FN all have impacts. Equally to blame for the mess we are in and I'll even throw in DFO due to the lack of studies that should have been done decades ago. Instead of pointing fingers, imagine if all 3 of those groups could agree on something like healthy fish stocks, helping with studies, (I know there are some like test fisheries where DFO samplers go on the boat and record numbers and collect DNA samples) but this has to be on a giant scale. Even if we could get the PSF, PSC and these other NGO groups to get involved and actually do boots on the ground help. Instead we points fingers at each other and pass the buck. These fish aren't going to rebound by themselves. They need help and it's pretty obvious they do. If they could ask, I bet they would.
- The Pacific Salmon Treaty needs to be revamped. Immediately Alaska takes roughly 40% of Quinsam/Campbell River chinook alone, all by themselves. Maybe the Pacific Salmon Treaty needs to be taken more seriously. They also take huge numbers of the remaining Skeena Steelhead trying to return and they are not mandated to report steelhead bycatch. It's crazy to me that they deplete our stocks that we rely on and it's just shrug, nothing we can do but write stuff about it once in awhile. This needs to be in top stories constantly, they need to be harassed about it, otherwise it won't change.
- Move sport fishing guides to commercial licenses. Yes, you all will hate this. They need to be inspected more frequently. Day in, day out, guest after guest. Group at 6am, limit out, group at noon, limit out. The impact on fish is enormous. Like mentioned above, they are not mandated to do heads, DNA or report numbers. There are so many guides out there that contribute to harvest numbers, it's crazy. We will never even know this numbers. This doesn't even include the smaller fish harmed/killed during catch and release methods. I've heard countless stories of guides giving away the 1 fish they are allowed to guests. This fish is never written on their license, the client gets an extra fish that hasn't been recorded. Repeat process over and over and over. Poaching. A giant number of fish are taken from the guides, lodges alone and should not be considered recreational fisherman. They do it for a living. Guests hire them to do so. You use electric down riggers, depth sounders, etc. to make your living easier and charge an insane amount of money to do so. On that same token, if you are on a commercial license, you'd be classified as a fisherman and would be entitled to Fishermans EI. You'd be paid by the government you hate, to sit on your butt all winter long. How could you say no to that? It is too easy to guide now and be successful. If you don't include the insane technology on your boat that you use, the social network to find these fish and hammer them day in, day out I just as bad. This forum, your friends/colleagues all giving the info out there. You fish every day for a living and physically hook/capture an enormous amount of fish every season. You should not be a recreational fisherman. You are a commercial fisherman whether you want to admit it or not.
- Slot size limit. This needs some work but the overall idea isn't poor. We need these bigger fish. They are essential to returning. Most places are only getting 3-4 year olds. This is not ideal. We also need to protect the smaller fish as they are just as important for further years. I know you all say "just let us take these fish and hit the limits and less fish will be impacted as we are not sorting through fish to hit that limit". While yeah, that's true but we can't just leave it up to people to follow the code of honour. It just doesn't work. People don't work that way. It's especially bad with the hatchery coho regulations. It's a tough one for sure and I'm not sure of an answer on it, honestly. Execution may be poor but the idea I understand.
- While everyone loves to fish, we all understand that. What I don't understand is getting your limit of chinook or coho and then just keep on hammering them as catch and release. This needs to change. These fish come out of their schools to smash your spoon/plug/hoochie, putting themselves in a vulnerable state. They get hauled up 300 feet or whatever depth, you have your limit, you use your gaff to let it go, great. But now that fish doesn't have its school which is used as a type of protection. It is now swimming around vulnerable and fatigued and searching for where its pals are. This opens it up to predation. This doesn't even include if it was harmed, injured etc. Get your limit and go home. Leave the fish alone.
- More studies. Study everything. We are no where close to cracking the case on salmon. There is so much more to know.
These are just some ideas and issues I have. I still firmly believe the video above is rage bait and full of fear mongering. The guy doing all the talking probably knows nothing about the things I've mentioned above. He is just a mouth that talks words at a fast pace to try and sound intelligent/intimidate. Real change, in my opinion, will be accomplished when all 3 groups come together, band together and force the government/DFO to do the right thing and best thing, even though it may not be the best for fisherman. In the meantime, the government has us all right where they want us. Divided and hateful and a bunch of easily manipulated sheep. My above statement about groups banding together doesn't just pertain to fish.
There are solutions as well to better help us understand salmon, which will still lack so much knowledge.
- Mandatory head recovery. The lack of data we are missing from these fish is insane. Even if each fishing guide was given a small metal detector/wand on their boat. You bonk the hatchery fish, you scan the fish head, it beeps, you take the fish head to hand in at the end of the day. Throw that sucker into a tote. If it doesn't beep? Carry on as normal. Or even have one of these machines at every marina at the cutting table that we all know they have. Each of these fish provide invaluable data. What hatchery did they come from? What release program were they from? (Sea pens, early release, late release) This could be for recreational, FN and commercial guides. Otherwise we spend the money on tags that are expensive as all hell, tag the fish, release the fish and then never get any data. What a waste of money and stress on the fish.
- Instead of paying the American company NMT for their trailers, parts, tags, etc. Which we pay duty on, tariffs and a premium price just because they have the monopoly. Develop this in house. Many of these trailer parts can be made with a CNC machine. Even if you don't want to use trailers. Many hatcheries have unused buildings or rooms. These rooms can be updated to accommodate the same system where hatchery staff can do the same thing but in their building and save the hassle of paying the trailers to move around and be on an insanely tight schedule. Not only that but you are paying them to travel, work long hours, huge labour costs for the amount of people it takes to mark fish that the trailer cannot mark.
- Mass marking fish. Period. Relieve the pressure from wild stocks. This has been an ongoing talk the last 2 years for the ECVI and due to the current governments budget cuts, it will be just that again this year. Just talks. Hopefully next year but as each year passes, that's another 3-5 years you must wait to see the returns on the investment.
- Get rid of Tyee club related fisheries. Yes, everyone loves the story that Dave posts. (I think it's Dave) but you cannot fathom they have no impact? Yes, few numbers are caught but so what? Those fish are more than likely going to survive to spawn as the Quinsam/Campbell are such small systems. We cannot complain about no big fish if you are targeting what big fish remain. You are no better than a commercial/FN terminal fishery at that point.
- Better communication between all groups. Commercial, Sports, FN all have impacts. Equally to blame for the mess we are in and I'll even throw in DFO due to the lack of studies that should have been done decades ago. Instead of pointing fingers, imagine if all 3 of those groups could agree on something like healthy fish stocks, helping with studies, (I know there are some like test fisheries where DFO samplers go on the boat and record numbers and collect DNA samples) but this has to be on a giant scale. Even if we could get the PSF, PSC and these other NGO groups to get involved and actually do boots on the ground help. Instead we points fingers at each other and pass the buck. These fish aren't going to rebound by themselves. They need help and it's pretty obvious they do. If they could ask, I bet they would.
- The Pacific Salmon Treaty needs to be revamped. Immediately Alaska takes roughly 40% of Quinsam/Campbell River chinook alone, all by themselves. Maybe the Pacific Salmon Treaty needs to be taken more seriously. They also take huge numbers of the remaining Skeena Steelhead trying to return and they are not mandated to report steelhead bycatch. It's crazy to me that they deplete our stocks that we rely on and it's just shrug, nothing we can do but write stuff about it once in awhile. This needs to be in top stories constantly, they need to be harassed about it, otherwise it won't change.
- Move sport fishing guides to commercial licenses. Yes, you all will hate this. They need to be inspected more frequently. Day in, day out, guest after guest. Group at 6am, limit out, group at noon, limit out. The impact on fish is enormous. Like mentioned above, they are not mandated to do heads, DNA or report numbers. There are so many guides out there that contribute to harvest numbers, it's crazy. We will never even know this numbers. This doesn't even include the smaller fish harmed/killed during catch and release methods. I've heard countless stories of guides giving away the 1 fish they are allowed to guests. This fish is never written on their license, the client gets an extra fish that hasn't been recorded. Repeat process over and over and over. Poaching. A giant number of fish are taken from the guides, lodges alone and should not be considered recreational fisherman. They do it for a living. Guests hire them to do so. You use electric down riggers, depth sounders, etc. to make your living easier and charge an insane amount of money to do so. On that same token, if you are on a commercial license, you'd be classified as a fisherman and would be entitled to Fishermans EI. You'd be paid by the government you hate, to sit on your butt all winter long. How could you say no to that? It is too easy to guide now and be successful. If you don't include the insane technology on your boat that you use, the social network to find these fish and hammer them day in, day out I just as bad. This forum, your friends/colleagues all giving the info out there. You fish every day for a living and physically hook/capture an enormous amount of fish every season. You should not be a recreational fisherman. You are a commercial fisherman whether you want to admit it or not.
- Slot size limit. This needs some work but the overall idea isn't poor. We need these bigger fish. They are essential to returning. Most places are only getting 3-4 year olds. This is not ideal. We also need to protect the smaller fish as they are just as important for further years. I know you all say "just let us take these fish and hit the limits and less fish will be impacted as we are not sorting through fish to hit that limit". While yeah, that's true but we can't just leave it up to people to follow the code of honour. It just doesn't work. People don't work that way. It's especially bad with the hatchery coho regulations. It's a tough one for sure and I'm not sure of an answer on it, honestly. Execution may be poor but the idea I understand.
- While everyone loves to fish, we all understand that. What I don't understand is getting your limit of chinook or coho and then just keep on hammering them as catch and release. This needs to change. These fish come out of their schools to smash your spoon/plug/hoochie, putting themselves in a vulnerable state. They get hauled up 300 feet or whatever depth, you have your limit, you use your gaff to let it go, great. But now that fish doesn't have its school which is used as a type of protection. It is now swimming around vulnerable and fatigued and searching for where its pals are. This opens it up to predation. This doesn't even include if it was harmed, injured etc. Get your limit and go home. Leave the fish alone.
- More studies. Study everything. We are no where close to cracking the case on salmon. There is so much more to know.
These are just some ideas and issues I have. I still firmly believe the video above is rage bait and full of fear mongering. The guy doing all the talking probably knows nothing about the things I've mentioned above. He is just a mouth that talks words at a fast pace to try and sound intelligent/intimidate. Real change, in my opinion, will be accomplished when all 3 groups come together, band together and force the government/DFO to do the right thing and best thing, even though it may not be the best for fisherman. In the meantime, the government has us all right where they want us. Divided and hateful and a bunch of easily manipulated sheep. My above statement about groups banding together doesn't just pertain to fish.
Read it. You could learn. Imagine the possibilities. I was called a troll and contributing nothing. I contributed.
Sharphooks
Well-Known Member
With all due respects, your DFO apology tour lost me once you started pointing fingers at Alaskans for their chinook and steelhead interception. There was a deafening roar (conspicuous silence) of why you might have chosen to bring up the Alaskans but leave out of your manifesto DFO’s multi-decade assault on Interior Fraser River Steelhead.
People stopped talking about Nahatlatch, Stein and Chilcotin steelhead years ago because today, there aren’t enough steelhead spawners in those systems to wad a shotgun. Now the press finally make a feeble peep about the 19 steelhead spawners (plus or minus) that might have made it to the THompson River this past November
The extirpation of these fish you can lay squarely at the feet of the DFO. About the only natural phenomenon that has occurred in the last few decades that can be said to have out-performed DFO’s shameful mis-management of the FRaser River chum salmon gill net fishery that wiped out the steelhead from these systems was the Chilcotin slide in 2024.
People stopped talking about Nahatlatch, Stein and Chilcotin steelhead years ago because today, there aren’t enough steelhead spawners in those systems to wad a shotgun. Now the press finally make a feeble peep about the 19 steelhead spawners (plus or minus) that might have made it to the THompson River this past November
The extirpation of these fish you can lay squarely at the feet of the DFO. About the only natural phenomenon that has occurred in the last few decades that can be said to have out-performed DFO’s shameful mis-management of the FRaser River chum salmon gill net fishery that wiped out the steelhead from these systems was the Chilcotin slide in 2024.
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You really should have led with this series of comments.
They are well thought out and quite frankly what a forum like this needs.
You dropped two one liners in two posts like it was a mic- drop moment.
Normally, that would be trolling.
In your case I guess it isn't.
So. I apologize.
And I don't **** on DFO.
I used to be DFO. I am well aware of the work you describe above, as I used to do it.
"What I don't understand is getting your limit of chinook or coho and then just keep on hammering them as catch and release"
I'm not saying this doesn't happen. But I don't know anyone personally who does it. I'm nitpicking here i know, but this is a blanket statement about anglers.
I'm not saying this doesn't happen. But I don't know anyone personally who does it. I'm nitpicking here i know, but this is a blanket statement about anglers.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Ken Thibideau
September 27, 2023 ·Update The Recreational Fishing Association
The BC Recreational Fishing Association has now retained a recommended legal counsel from Gowlings WLG in Ottawa. Our counsel comes highly recommended and has the experience and expertise to challenge the DFO with respect to its flawed process in determining measures and restrictions to protect the Fraser River Chinook salmon and the southern resident killer whales. The first step in the action is to attain a legal opinion. Gowlings has now been engaged to complete this process. The cost for the legal opinion is $25,000 of which most of the funds have now been raised however we are still short about $3000.00. Once the legal opinion has been written, the next step will be determined and will likely involve filing an application for judicial review. The Federal Court has exclusive jurisdiction to review the legality of actions of most federal offices, boards, commissions, and tribunals. On this basis, a significant number of government decisions at the federal level may be challenged in the Federal Court.
We will be in touch again as things progress. There will be a significant requirement for more funds to pay for the next steps. Please spread the word to any all persons in the recreational fishing community as a small donation from each person in the larger community will create the best opportunity to be successful in preserving our fishery for future generations. Thank you for your support.
The BC Recreational Fishing Association Executive
Karl Ablack, Port Renfrew Management Ltd.
Chris Tucker, Wild Coast Wilderness Resort
Matt Wiley, Wiley Sportfishing
The BC Recreational Fishing Association supports the protection and preservation of the Southern Resident Killer Whales, Fraser River Chinook salmon and other endangered species. We are supportive of doing what it takes to ensure the preservation of the species and our endangered communities.
If you like to fish the west coast of the island get with these guys
Sharphooks
Well-Known Member
Some of us do the precise opposite. I turn chinook and coho loose for the first 21 days of my trip then the last two or three days days I keep what I catch and then go home. If I don’t catch my limit in those two or three days I go home anyway….several times it’s worked out according to plan, many times it hasn’t…but that’s fishing
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searun
Well-Known Member
I hope they have very deep pockets. To actually litigate they need 6 figure bank accounts that can be quickly replenished. A legal opinion is a few hours work. Actual litigation is weeks/months of legal work at a minimum of $600/hour for senior counsel. And it helps to have really competent knowledgable people (with litigation experience) instructing counsel. I know of at least one retired Federal Court judge in Renfrew that could provide that guidance if they can find the $.
Like this approach. Actually take it to them. I’ll contribute to this financially before psf or maybe even sfi.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
I would have SFI do it myself if that was possible. Best group armed to this. Maybe SFI with BCWF for broader reach across province. That way you also get hunters on there.
Plus both organizations are fairly transparent where money goes. No one is going donate money if your not organized on this with financial sheets backing it.
Would be awesome to have other provinces and East Coast get involved for even more bite. What happens here has implications Canada wide.
Plus both organizations are fairly transparent where money goes. No one is going donate money if your not organized on this with financial sheets backing it.
Would be awesome to have other provinces and East Coast get involved for even more bite. What happens here has implications Canada wide.
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