Insurance or regs violation for accepting gas money

kaelc

kaelc

Crew Member
From another thread and after being out with a guide who said that accepting any money can violate your insurance or make you liable.

Is there any specific case law, regulations or insurance terms someone can point to for this? The opposite is true for ride share for personal vehicles, if you don’t make money, over and above the out of pocket costs of a trip it’s 100% legal to recieve gas money. https://support.poparide.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000539428?v=web

I understand boats and fishing is completely different.

I 100% agree non-licensed guiding is stupid and illegal. I told my friend who did it once and almost killed people he is an idiot.

I got approached by an American in September asking if I’d take them out for $ and said “no, here are the names of three guides who catch fish way better than me.” Two are on this forum. The last thing I want to do is have the pressure to catch/entertain someone when I am doing what I love.

Friends who offer to give gas money and my former boat partner and I split cost on big trips as I want to do more not less fishing.

“u take someone on your boat and they pay you anything, be it for fuel, fishing, whatever, that puts you in a (potentially) commercial situation, especially if you can’t prove they are long-time friends/acquaintances). If they sprain their ankle on your boat, that puts you in a liability position… this is important to remember…behind every recreational user/client is a lawyer. And personal liability lawyers get paid based on what they settle for, so you know that will be as much money as they can go for….”

Thanks I’m genuinely interested in the answer.
 
if your buddy on a road trip pays for the gas does that make you a taxi driver

don't think so

of course getting hurt is another story think it's not uncommon for friends and even family to sue your insurance.
 
I don't think it is necessarily a reg or insurance "violation" for getting some renumeration for taking someone out. However, the standard response from Coast Guard is that any "provable" renumeration means your boat is no longer classed as a "pleasure" boat - but rather a "commercial" boat.

So you would need a SVOP instead of a Pleasure Craft Licence to operate. That may/may not also affect your insurance coverage. And you are ALWAYS liable for anyone you take on your boat irrespective of SVOP or insurance.
 
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Looking for an answer on this forum to a very technical insurance coverage question is a tad risky - especially if you act on what we might suggest. Best place is to go and get an answer from your vessel insurer in writing preferably. Every insurer and underwriter has their own policy wording and interpretation. You certainly don't want to find out when you have a claim to make.
 
searun said:
Looking for an answer on this forum to a very technical insurance coverage question is a tad risky - especially if you act on what we might suggest. Best place is to go and get an answer from your vessel insurer in writing preferably. Every insurer and underwriter has their own policy wording and interpretation. You certainly don't want to find out when you have a claim to make.
Click to expand...
Good advice.

I think it's important to keep in mind that there are in reality 3 authorities with different but intertwined requirements:

1/ Insurance. Mostly focused on accidents and repairs and the financial consequences if a civil case of liability arises. They typically require the minimum of clients to follow the applicable sections in the Small Vessel Regulations.
2/ Coast Guard/RCMP can fine you if are out of compliance, and if any personal accidents or deaths occur can hand off the case to the Crown Attorney for Criminal Charges - which brings you to:
3/ The Courts and case law. If you get charged criminally or civilly (by an accident victim) you could end up here. Due diligence and also following or not following the regs will have impacts on the outcome.

I would recommend (at a minimum) being familiar with this Act:

And these associated regulations:


 
Yes, when an accident happens that is when TC and the Courts sit up and take notice. I followed the court fall out from the accident in Tofino a few years back where a guide anchored up for halibut with guests and the vessel sunk resulting in guests in the water. Sadly some did not make it. There were several charges under the Act laid, and resulting court convictions. Some basic requirements such as the Guide requirement to provide guests with a pre-departure safety briefing did result in convictions for failure to comply with the regulations. So, there is a lot more required than meets the eye. Taking people out fishing for cash, without the appropriate training, insurance, vessel modifications and compliance with the small commercial vessel regulations all sounds good until there is an accident.
 
Speaking of marine accidents - Lots to learn from browsing the TSB website and reviewing the recommendations that come out of the safety investigations and reports as well:

Marine transportation safety investigations and reports - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

How to use the indexTo sort the list, click on the column headers. Change the sort order by clicking on the arrows.To sort more than one column at a time, hold down your Shift key and select your headers.To find items in the list, enter them in the filter.
www.tsb.gc.ca www.tsb.gc.ca

Type the word "charter" in the filter items...

This one is particularly informative:

Marine Investigation Report M15P0347 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

www.tsb.gc.ca www.tsb.gc.ca
 
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searun said:
Yes, when an accident happens that is when TC and the Courts sit up and take notice. I followed the court fall out from the accident in Tofino a few years back where a guide anchored up for halibut with guests and the vessel sunk resulting in guests in the water. Sadly some did not make it. There were several charges under the Act laid, and resulting court convictions. Some basic requirements such as the Guide requirement to provide guests with a pre-departure safety briefing did result in convictions for failure to comply with the regulations. So, there is a lot more required than meets the eye. Taking people out fishing for cash, without the appropriate training, insurance, vessel modifications and compliance with the small commercial vessel regulations all sounds good until there is an accident.
Click to expand...
And, much to my chagrin he is back in business
 
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