Indian Arm Chinook net pen project - historical info
- Thread starter TheBigGuy
- Start date
bigbruce
Crew Member
We're talking one more ship a day here. It's not as though it's going to look like rush hour on the Alex Fraser on a snow day! There's way more chance of a bunker spill from the hundreds of ships that are already transiting Vancouver Harbour than a major spill from a piloted double hulled tanker. I have to wonder why there aren't protesters around the cruise ship and grain ship terminals - if you're wanting to add bunker fuel to the risk equation.
It only takes one and we're done.
bigbruce
Crew Member
That's kind of my point. So why haven't the throngs been out protesting all of the cruise ships, sulphur carriers, grain ships, container ships and who knows what else has been coming through the JDFS into Vancouver harbour carrying thousands of gallons of bunker fuel for the past 50 years? Do you think it might be because they've been able to figure out how to do it safely? You can bet your sweet butt that the piloted double hulled oil tankers coming through the First Narrows will be a hell of a lot less likely to spill their cargos than the bunker filled Greek registered container ships that have been coming through there for years.
No Seaworms 40 years later!! Turn over a few rocks and you can still sea the sheen. You can't clean Raw Bitumen up in the water no such technology exists.
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
I hardly think you can compare holding smolts briefly in a net pen to a permanent fish farming operation. All the negatives like the use of SLICE, antibiotics, sea lice, and deleterious bottom build up come from extended net pen rearing. No comparison.
Apparently fish like them. Just watch out for the pincer when you put them on a hook.
Setting up ragworm
Ragworm are a great bait and most fish love them!
Worms have 2 pincers so you need to be a little careful when preparing them. If you're a lightweight
you can cut off the head which does then give a better blood trail but it won't be as secure on the hook. I would personally keep the head on. It stays on MUCH better if you hook through the mouth.
Place the hook through the pincers.
You have a few options on how to prepare the bait. The best advice I can give is don't be stingy with the bait. I will often feed 2 to 4 rag through the hook and up the line to give a much greater scent and visual trail for the fish.
*top tip*
Before you cast your hook full of rag worm dip them in sea water. Rag worm can come off the line easily and by dipping them in some water just before you cast reduces the loss.
You can feed through half the worm and leave the rest trailing and if you do this you will need to hook into the worm again so it's more secure on the hook. You need to watch when you cast carefully because if you cast too hard there is a good chance the ragworm will fly off the hook (another reason why having more than one on a hook is a good idea. What I tend to do is once the rag(s) on are the hook I finish off with a small piece of mackerel or squid to limit the chances of the worm flying off the hook.
Feed the ragworm up the hook and up the line.
If the photo above you will see that the ragworm has been fed up the hook so the hook is at the bottom of the worm. You can also have the hook stop at the middle of the worm as well. If you're casting long distances then having the worm fed fully will help it keep on the hook when casting.
Now the downside to worms are that the really small fish also love them and they can always seem to find a way of removing the worm without hooking itself. It is not uncommon to start having bites on worm milliseconds after it hits the water. The problem is the fish attacking them are so small they can't hook onto the smallest of hooks. Best advice if you're finding the worm being eaten instantly with no hookups is to cast a little further out or add more than one rag and hope you cast past the small stuff or the larger fish take the larger bait first.
Another good idea is to use a mix. Feed a worm or two through the hook and up the line and then finish with a piece of mackerel or squid for example. This does help to preserve your bait a little longer.
A little more historical info on past chinook net pen operations up Indian Arm:
-Both Big Q reds (august returning) and Harrison whites were used for brood stock. The change in brood stock coincided with Cap hatchery switching brood
-Net pen production was up to 250k at one point but only for two year
-the program terminated in 94 or 96
-The pens located near Wigwam in were not successful due to large fish kills from heavy plankton blooms up the arm... a location further down the arm with better water exchange would be more suitable
-jelly fish accumulation on nets was also an issue
Since termination of the Inidan Arm program the pens have since been re purposed and are operated by the Burrard Inlet Marine Enhancement Society. There are currently 2 net pens in Burrard inlet, but release numbers are so low they do not contribute to a terminal fishery other than interception at the cap mouth. Locations are as follows:
1) at Westridge terminal (Kinder Morgan terminal slated for expansion).
2) in burrard inlet at Ioco Marina.
Each pen releases approx 20,000 chinook (capilano stock) and 8,000 seymour coho annually.
The best way to get DFO's attention is from the top down; through writing your local MP and involving PSF. If anyone is seriously considering this initiative please PM me. I would love to help.
Don't forget to do your part by drinking Post Mark Brewing's -PSF Lager.
-Both Big Q reds (august returning) and Harrison whites were used for brood stock. The change in brood stock coincided with Cap hatchery switching brood
-Net pen production was up to 250k at one point but only for two year
-the program terminated in 94 or 96
-The pens located near Wigwam in were not successful due to large fish kills from heavy plankton blooms up the arm... a location further down the arm with better water exchange would be more suitable
-jelly fish accumulation on nets was also an issue
Since termination of the Inidan Arm program the pens have since been re purposed and are operated by the Burrard Inlet Marine Enhancement Society. There are currently 2 net pens in Burrard inlet, but release numbers are so low they do not contribute to a terminal fishery other than interception at the cap mouth. Locations are as follows:
1) at Westridge terminal (Kinder Morgan terminal slated for expansion).
2) in burrard inlet at Ioco Marina.
Each pen releases approx 20,000 chinook (capilano stock) and 8,000 seymour coho annually.
The best way to get DFO's attention is from the top down; through writing your local MP and involving PSF. If anyone is seriously considering this initiative please PM me. I would love to help.
Don't forget to do your part by drinking Post Mark Brewing's -PSF Lager.
Old Blue
Well-Known Member
Hahaha, I've tried explaining the same to people time and time again. We should be concerned about the added double tanker traffic but it seems like the local traffic is much more of a concern. Sheeesh look at some of the junk that goes back and forth to the island, accident waiting to happen. Take a look at the crap that floats around the marinas, take a look and the mess that floats out from False Creek.
There's so much bogus info in the media lately regarding the expansion it's disturbing.....7 times the traffic with super tankers as well.
Just because a small area where Cap fish like to stage will be closed doesn't mean the fishery is over it means people might actually have to do a bit of leg work to find fish and not do the same 2 tacks time after time after time with 50+ other boats.
The government brought in the carbon tax and approved the 2 least intrusive lines possible but that's getting off topic, I'd approach Kinder Morgan for funding for both Indian Arm and Howe Sound pen projects....it'd be a great PR campaign for them and we'd all win with more salmon. While you're at it look for more funding for the herring spawning projects, look at how local winter fishing has benefitted
sly_karma
Crew Member
Boats passing through First Narrows en route to Indian Arm is a lot different from boats fishing the mouth of the Capilano. I think we all understand why the authorities are concerned for safety because of irresponsible fishing operations in a high traffic area. Furthermore, FOC cannot prevent access of law abiding boaters to any part of our coast. It would literally take an act of parliament to place an exclusion zone in our coastal waters, something like say the WG ordnance test range off Nanaimo or the Tyee Pool at Campbell River.
Maybe try explaining to them the fact is Raw Bituman sinks where it cannot be retrieved unlike the mess floating out of False Creek. Facts are facts
holding smolts for how long? one year or two? whats the target size for release? will you be removing your open net pen every year?
are you putting fish in a net in the ocean? will you be feeding them?
this my friend is a fish farm..... plain and simple.
how can you say you wont use antibiotics or slice to control? from what your saying you will invest $$$ and if the fish fall ill, your willing to part with the investment vs treating the pen with oxycot or tm200.
in the public eye..... what will other people say when they venture up the arm? there another fish farm or there a floating....... whatever your calling this?
Bones, duration of holding & size at release varies across stocks. On a typical year Chinook smolts would be transferred from a hatchery to a net pen at around 8 grams. They would be held and fed for 10-20 days to imprint on that specific location prior to release. Nets are removed after each release for bio security.
Most major hatcheries conduct disease screening when taking eggs, fish are also routininly treated with vacinnes if they display symptoms and test positive during early rearing.
As with any kind of enhancement or hatchery production, Net pens arent without flaws, the points you bring up are good ones.
Most major hatcheries conduct disease screening when taking eggs, fish are also routininly treated with vacinnes if they display symptoms and test positive during early rearing.
As with any kind of enhancement or hatchery production, Net pens arent without flaws, the points you bring up are good ones.
happy hooker
Crew Member
or 6 more tankers per week? 6 times the risk. Bottom line is it sounds like people don't want it.
persistent
Active Member
Bringing this project back to life is a great idea Derby! Unfortunately this thread has been de-railed by a bunch of nimbys, keep up the good work and thanks for taking the initiative.
Derby
Crew Member
Its alright... all threads have a mind of there own.. and some good info always came from it as long as it doesn't get personal....
. Got our first volunteer to help out tonight..thank u Stiritup... I'll send u my number tomorrow and we can talk..your help will be appreciated... I believe I maybe be able to get the original info on the project in the next couple days..... Was able to reach out to a friend for the help 
all threads have a mind of there own.. and some good info always came from it as long as it doesn't get personal..... Got our first volunteer to help out tonight..thank u Stiritup... I'll send u my number tomorrow and we can talk..your help will be appreciated... I believe I maybe be able to get the original info on the project in the next couple days..... Was able to reach out to a friend for the help 
. If you look at Indian Arm , probably at least 50% is RCA so if they do do something to create a fishery for springs, the area to fish is pretty small . One of the larger areas to fish would be at the mouth of the river above the island and by the time they get up there they'll be black as a tire if its anything like it was back in the day. Just something to think about but still well worth doing !
