Important mtg about chinook fishing in Victoria

[scott craven]

I'm sure you're right Roy, however if the alternative is a complete closure we're really screwed.
By the way we caught lots of fin clipped fish up to 26 lbs last June.

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by r.s craven

I'm sure you're right Roy, however if the alternative is a complete closure we're really screwed.
By the way we caught lots of fin clipped fish up to 26 lbs last June.

Scott, very few Puget Sound fish ever get over that?

IMHO, I think "WE" need to think about the "Frasers" here?
That ecosystem, is being destroyed! It needs fixed before "you" lose it! That is happening as we speak, and as everyone is arguing of "their" TAC? Roy is right... This is very political!

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by r.s craven

I'm sure you're right Roy, however if the alternative is a complete closure we're really screwed.
By the way we caught lots of fin clipped fish up to 26 lbs last June.

Scott, very few Puget Sound fish ever get over that?

IMHO, I think "WE" need to think about the "Frasers" here?
That ecosystem, is being destroyed! It needs fixed before "you" lose it! That is happening as we speak, and as everyone is arguing of "their" TAC? Roy is right... This is very political!

 

[scott craven]

Agreed Charlie, and FN have way more political clout than sport
fishermen..
that said, i wrote Ms. Shea a letter today indicating we as a group
would not be happy with a moratorium.
question is, will she care no matter how many letters she receives ???

 

[scott craven]

Agreed Charlie, and FN have way more political clout than sport
fishermen..
that said, i wrote Ms. Shea a letter today indicating we as a group
would not be happy with a moratorium.
question is, will she care no matter how many letters she receives ???

 

[profisher]

We really need to have serious and frank round table talks with the FN representatives and work together at a permanent solution to the Fraser problems. They (FN's)are the key not only to us being able to fish but also to the ability of those runs to rebound. I can say with 100% confidence that the way DFO has kept us divided up until now has failed miserably for all, us and the fish!!

 

[profisher]

We really need to have serious and frank round table talks with the FN representatives and work together at a permanent solution to the Fraser problems. They (FN's)are the key not only to us being able to fish but also to the ability of those runs to rebound. I can say with 100% confidence that the way DFO has kept us divided up until now has failed miserably for all, us and the fish!!

 

[chris73]

So what are you suggesting profisher? Leaving it up to SFAB or do you want to start an initiative outside the SFAB?

 

[chris73]

So what are you suggesting profisher? Leaving it up to SFAB or do you want to start an initiative outside the SFAB?

 

[Governor]

Another face-to-face meeting is planned between FN and SFAB about Nicola 4-2 chinook for May 3rd. Between now and then, the SFAB chinook and coho working group meet and so does the SFAB Main Board. The message from the local committee meeting in Victoria on the 14th April was clear and that will be brought to SFAB process on your behalf.

I would strongly advise that the planning of any political action be kept away from this open forum. We know many people outside the angling community read this forum. Poker requires you don't show other players what cards you have in your hand. I personally do not feel a protest is appropriate at this time. It is very clear there is a lot of angst amongst area 19 and 20 anglers about the potential loss of our June chinook fishery. It is extremely important that any action taken by local anglers results in a positive for us and the fish.

I personally suggest we have an informal meeting amongst ourselves. Share ideas, build a response strategy, develop an action plan and a have beer or two. Maybe at the Six Mile pub one night soon (when the canucks aren't playing). Early next week? Please email me if you are interested ....


governor@shaw.ca


God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

 

[Charlie]

X2
But Gov, I guess I am missing something?

The intent of any meeting with FN and SFAB, about Nicola 4-2 Chinook? If I am not mistaken, that system is being monitored, and falls under the Pacific Salmon Treaty? Is it not and with catch records sent to PST? Anything unusual there PST “should” pick-up and that would become very public, very fast! On the other hand, is this just to insure compliance with PST? I think a meeting concerning any systems “not” being monitored by the PST, would be more relevant?

Just a thought!

quote: 6.5. Spius Creek Hatchery
Spius Creek hatchery enhances yearling Chinook from Spius Creek, the Coldwater River, Nicola River and Salmon River (near Salmon Arm). Coded wire tagged releases into the Nicola support an indicator stock program for spring-run age 42 Chinook of the Lower Thompson and Louis Creek. The indicator program provides information on harvest rates and smolt to adult survival rates. This information is required as part of Canada’s commitment under the Pacific Salmon Treaty. Indicator programs for Chinook salmon typically require hatchery production because capturing and tagging enough naturally-produced Chinook smolts is very difficult. These hatchery smolts must be same size and have the same release timing as natural smolts in the system..

Early timed Spius Creek and Coldwater River Chinook are enhanced by Spius Creek hatchery, although the annual smolt releases are relatively small (~50K per system) compared to the Nicola release of 140K CWT smolts annually. No CWT application is done on Spius or Coldwater smolts.

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/2008FrasRvrChkInformDocument.htm

 

[Governor]

quote:Originally posted by Charlie

X2
But Gov, I guess I am missing something?

The intent of any meeting with FN and SFAB, about Nicola 4-2 Chinook? If I am not mistaken, that system is being monitored, and falls under the Pacific Salmon Treaty? Is it not and with catch records sent to PST? Anything unusual there PST “should” pick-up and that would become very public, very fast! On the other hand, is this just to insure compliance with PST? I think a meeting concerning any systems “not” being monitored by the PST, would be more relevant?

Just a thought!

Charlie, the meeting was actually to hear the FN concern about the low abundance of Nicola 4-2 stocks (example in 2009 Louis Creek only 6 adults returned - historically 50 - 100), hear from the Nicola FN (and other bands) directly that they are not getting any FSC fishing opportunities on those stocks and learn more about their proposed no fishing moratorium. Additionally, the meeting was also designed to build positive relationships between harvesting groups (something that has not been occuring face-to-face between FN and SFAB for some time). In my opinion, any building of positive relationships is valuable.

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

 

[profisher]

Chris, not sure of the best way to get together and start talks. I know the goals should be finding common ground, dissolving mistrusts, both sides being more accountable and transparent and working together to force DFO to rebuild Fraser runs. Which ultimately means dusting out the cobwebs in the federal wallet.

 

[Little Hawk]

Hopefully the SFAB will continue to lobby both FN & government with conservation and fair apportionment of the resource at the fore. You guy's nailed it on the head - FN needs to be on board with us sporties' and believe they will and should become our greatest ally in our efforts to prevent Pacific Salmon from going the way of the East Coast cod fishery under the politically clouded - and subsequently inept - DFO management regime.

I hope we don't lose sight of who the real enemy is here. It's not the Indians' it's -DFO!

THEY ARE THE ONES WHO SHOULD BE BOOTING THE FISH-FARMERS ASSES OUT OF OUR WATERWAYS!

THEY ARE THE ONES WHO SHOULD BE SPEARHEADING THE DRIVE IN OTTAWA - ON BEHALF OF OUR GREAT-FISHES - FOR SALMON-HABITAT REHABILITATION FUNDING AND OTHER CRITICAL CONSERVATION INITIATIVES!

THEY ARE THE ONES WHO SHOULD HAVE STOPPED THE INSANE GRAVEL EXTRACTION ON THE FRASER!

THEY ARE THE ONES WHO 'STAND-DOWN' SPINELESSLY WHEN POLITICALLY DRIVEN DIRECTIVES COME DOWN FROM 'HIGHER-PLACES' IN OTTAWA - FROM SELF-SERVING BOZO'S WHO KNOW **** ABOUT FISHERIES MANAGEMENT - WHICH WILL ULTIMATELY SPELL THE END OF THE PACIFIC FISHERY!

Throughout this Early Fraser apportionment fiasco I can't help but wonder where the BCWF is hiding? This well-funded outfit is supposed to be working hard on behalf of the fishing & hunting community here in BC. In the nearly 10/yrs I've been at it with the salmon-farmers, the BCWF has been absent from this battle as well. They sent me letter asking for more money to renew my membership; it's still sitting on my desk and I'm contemplating recycling it.

I will continue to support the great efforts of Chris Bos and the SFAB until such time as I feel this collective voice of the western sport-fisherman is not being heard by Ottawa and the Province. Then, it'll be time to enact - plan 'B'.

TOTAL WAR - TO SAVE OUR GREAT-FISHES!



"Some could care less if there's any fish left for our kids!"

 

[Cuba Libre]

quote:Throughout this Early Fraser apportionment fiasco I can't help but wonder where the BCWF is hiding? This well-funded outfit is supposed to be working hard on behalf of the fishing & hunting community here in BC. In the nearly 10/yrs I've been at it with the salmon-farmers, the BCWF has been absent from this battle as well. They sent me letter asking for more money to renew my membership; it's still sitting on my desk and I'm contemplating recycling it.

Little Hawk-- you couldnt be more wrong. The BCWF is in this fight up to the eyeballs. If you care to check the membership on the South and North Coast SFAB and the Main board you will find BCWF appointed reps on all boards. In addition, some of the SFAB sub committies are chaired by BCWF members-- Guys like Chuck Ashcroft and Wayne Harling. And there are many more....
The SFAB is the LEAD in this fight as they are the OFFICIAL advisory board to DFO.

20ft Alumaweld Intruder

 

[Little Hawk]

CL: My intentions are not disrespectful. I'm referring to what's in the public-eye in the battle against the salmon farmers'; it's Morton, the scientific community, and the NGO's - not the BCWF. Why? In my view the BCWF should have wiped our coast-line clean of salmon farmers years ago - and they haven't. Why?

Admittedly, a degree of my frustration also lies in the fact that the BCWF declined to support the WSA in our efforts (meager they were) to try to get Campbell un-elected last election.

Maybe I'm not spot-on topic here concerning Fraser Chinook sport-allocation issues, but in the big-picture, I know the salmon farmer's are responsible for a much higher mortality contribution than we are, and that should concern all of us.

Please forgive this rant; it's not a highjack attempt.





"Some could care less if there's any fish left for our kids!"

 

[Truth]

The MAIN reason why the Fraser chinook stock are in trouble is because the NATIVE netting that goes on from Yale down. The netting starts in early march. The early stocks that dfo is trying to protect are being netted out as we speak. Below the mouth of the coquihalla there is drift nets that are set running downstream on most days. Above the agassis bridge this is a daily occurance now. Pretty pathetic and sad.

The sports fisherman have little impact on the returning numbers. Shutting us down would be pointless. Fish farms definetly have some impact, but until the gill and set netting stops on the fraser these stocks are doomed!

DFO= Destroying Fisheries Often

The great hode

 

[Hero]

Smiley66. Our government and DFO are scared of the natives and their \"politically incorrect\" accusations they swing around like guns and knifes. Until their is truly one law for one land the netting will never stop and the Fraser Chinook and Sockeye stocks are doomed. If you take a drive up the Fraser canyon in the summertime and witness the sickening events going on down below the freeway then you will never understand the atrocities that take place daily all summer long.

 

[scott craven]

Do we assume that the recovered head tags from these Fraser fish caught in Juan de Fuca were turned in by sports fishermen ?
if so we are our own worst enemies ?

 

[Rockfish]

I am beginning to wonder the same thing. For years we have come into the dock at Sunny Shores (Sooke), met the guy/women from DFO (they are almost always there in the summer) who counted and measure our fish, took scale samples and of course always turned in the heads of clip fished. We thought we were doing our part for research and conservation and clearly we were being very well monitored. I would think 80 to 90% of the summer Chinook we caught were monitored. I do remember one day seeing a new monitor person ask one of the guides who refused to participate in the process. At the time I thought it was strange but now I think he may have just been smarter than us. I am not sure I will ever do it again.
When DFO uses the data provided by sport fishermen inappropriately and foolishly for purely political rationalization rather than conservation, they lose credibility (not that they have much left)and cooperation.