Harbour seals are easy scapegoats in Chinook salmon decline
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SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Yay a pro NGO article that offers no solution.
fogged in
Well-Known Member
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/op...are-easy-scapegoats-in-chinook-salmon-decline
Harbour seals are easy scapegoats in Chinook salmon decline
Goes on to say....
“But, hold on a minute — there has been virtually no change in seal numbers in B.C. in more than 20 years
"Other studies show only four per cent of the harbour seal diet is salmon; that herring and hake are their primary prey. In fact, 40 per cent of the harbour seal diet is hake, which is a major salmon smolt predator. While appealing to some, a seal cull could actually destabilize the coastal food web, result in an increased abundance of hake, and increase the predation of juvenile salmon by hake.”
Could a fooled me cause my observation and reports I have read say there has been a huge increase in the Seal and Sea Lion population in the last 20 years and the skill of these brown eyed devils taking Chinook salmon right off my line often running them into kelp beds or over reefs is improving each year.
As far as the hake argument goes, I know there are sometimes tons of hake taken commercially off shore, but only a few show up where I do all my fishing and I might add back when you could fish in the river mouths I NEVER once caught a hake. Hey Dave...do you ever catch hake in Tyee Pool??
It's kinda like saying SVI Resident Orca's only eat big fat Fraser River Chinook proven by the fact that this is what they found when they picked up the whale scat. The fact the scat was picked up in the approaches of the Fraser River might have something to do with it...wonder what they eat the other 10 months of the year???
But what do I know, I am not a scientist...I have only been on the water fishing and observing all this stuff for over 60 years. Some science just defies logic. Anyone any time can get science to support their cause....just look at Fish Farms...eh
Harbour seals are easy scapegoats in Chinook salmon decline
Goes on to say....
“But, hold on a minute — there has been virtually no change in seal numbers in B.C. in more than 20 years
"Other studies show only four per cent of the harbour seal diet is salmon; that herring and hake are their primary prey. In fact, 40 per cent of the harbour seal diet is hake, which is a major salmon smolt predator. While appealing to some, a seal cull could actually destabilize the coastal food web, result in an increased abundance of hake, and increase the predation of juvenile salmon by hake.”
Could a fooled me cause my observation and reports I have read say there has been a huge increase in the Seal and Sea Lion population in the last 20 years and the skill of these brown eyed devils taking Chinook salmon right off my line often running them into kelp beds or over reefs is improving each year.
As far as the hake argument goes, I know there are sometimes tons of hake taken commercially off shore, but only a few show up where I do all my fishing and I might add back when you could fish in the river mouths I NEVER once caught a hake. Hey Dave...do you ever catch hake in Tyee Pool??
It's kinda like saying SVI Resident Orca's only eat big fat Fraser River Chinook proven by the fact that this is what they found when they picked up the whale scat. The fact the scat was picked up in the approaches of the Fraser River might have something to do with it...wonder what they eat the other 10 months of the year???
But what do I know, I am not a scientist...I have only been on the water fishing and observing all this stuff for over 60 years. Some science just defies logic. Anyone any time can get science to support their cause....just look at Fish Farms...eh
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Just like NGO science can ignore factual field ecology status eh.
california
Well-Known Member
That's kind of the point of the article, that there isn't a simple minded "solution" needed. A female Chinook lays about 5,000 eggs. Technically 2 need to return, the rest get eaten by something and there are a multitude of reasons why that is not been happening. Mindless interventions targeting one part of complex ecosystems rarely turn out well. The seal population is being contained by the food supply (which is mainly hake and herring) and predation by Biggs whales. Seals were blamed on the east coast for the cod collapse too when it was clearly man made, and somehow cod populations are rebounding despite northern harp seal populations rebounding .
seals DO target spawning females, tho - as well as juvies in the spring...
and NO - East Coast cod stocks are not "rebounding" neither - and that's not why they have the Harp seal hunt, neither. And the Harp seal stocks have been quite healthy for quite some time - can't kill enough of them in the hunt. So - numerous errors in your assertions, California.
and NO - East Coast cod stocks are not "rebounding" neither - and that's not why they have the Harp seal hunt, neither. And the Harp seal stocks have been quite healthy for quite some time - can't kill enough of them in the hunt. So - numerous errors in your assertions, California.
california
Well-Known Member
really, maybe tell the seal hunters that. Since the hunt isn't economically viable on its own they want to be subsidized to kill more to "protect fish stocks" they probably helped decimate with their fishing practices.....
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...r-increased-seal-hunt-to-protect-fish-stocks/
The TAC of the hunt is set by the demographics of the estimate of the Harp seal population, California. I recommend that you and anyone who wants actual info to base decisions on to refer to:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/seal...anges20112015/mgtplan-planges20112015-eng.htm
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/faqs-the-atlantic-seal-hunt-1.803159
https://www.canadianveterinarians.n...are-and-the-harp-seal-hunt-in-atlantic-canada
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/content/lop/researchpublications/prb0701-e.htm
https://www.hakaimagazine.com/article-long/act-forgiveness-fuels-fight-arctic
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/are-attitudes-around-seal-products-changing-1.3586739
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sealskin-fashion-sexy-nunavut-1.3486990
http://www.sealharvest.ca/csa_booklet.pdf
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/seal...anges20112015/mgtplan-planges20112015-eng.htm
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/faqs-the-atlantic-seal-hunt-1.803159
https://www.canadianveterinarians.n...are-and-the-harp-seal-hunt-in-atlantic-canada
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/content/lop/researchpublications/prb0701-e.htm
https://www.hakaimagazine.com/article-long/act-forgiveness-fuels-fight-arctic
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/are-attitudes-around-seal-products-changing-1.3586739
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sealskin-fashion-sexy-nunavut-1.3486990
http://www.sealharvest.ca/csa_booklet.pdf
Here's the Cod population estimates over time:
Now here's the Harp seal population estimates over time:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/northern-cod-stocks-decline-1.4589786
Now here's the Harp seal population estimates over time:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/northern-cod-stocks-decline-1.4589786
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california
Well-Known Member
So whats your point, you are trying to re-argue the already discredited theory that the seals caused the east coast cod decline? Your cod graph goes to 2002. Thanks for the article on seal skin bras and panties, but I'm just not into that whole "Furry" thing. I sent it to a couple of women I know and asked if they would wear fur underwear, none said they would (wouldn't admit it anyhow) but they did find them hilarious.
Maybe a paper on cods recovery by Rose and Rowe (recognized authorities on the subject) , starting 2008 would be more useful than an article on furry naughty wear...... Cod started recovering about the time seal populations got back to pre-hunt levels according to your graphs. How is that possible if the seals eat most of them?
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/10.1139/cjfas-2017-0421#.W2Dcn9VKjIU
Maybe a paper on cods recovery by Rose and Rowe (recognized authorities on the subject) , starting 2008 would be more useful than an article on furry naughty wear...... Cod started recovering about the time seal populations got back to pre-hunt levels according to your graphs. How is that possible if the seals eat most of them?
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/10.1139/cjfas-2017-0421#.W2Dcn9VKjIU
I wouldn't suggest that overfishing was not the primary culprit in the large-scale and lengthy downturns resulting in a crash of Northern cod. However, I think it would be naive and disingenuous to suggest that seals are not also a factor in the continual depression of that same stock. There are also harbour seals - in addition to Harp seals...
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
They will be dealt with soon regardless of the article or crying of the groups on Facebook. That is fact, and unfortunately I am not really buying your argument. I do know up in Port Hardy area I rarely see seals... So nature keeps care of itself
RODNREEL
Active Member
It's called a welcome mat ..........
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Here I was reading this getting all excited that the Salish Sea was just packed full of Hake and I could fish up some like the seals do....
Oh wait.... I know correlation does not equal causation but hmm look at thoes post 1970 numbers...
fogged in
Well-Known Member
Are you saying there are few hake in the Southern VI waters I fish eating our salmon smolts???
Or no one is fishing for them?
Could this be another false accusation in the story I posted on?
Or am I missing something
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
I am saying that in the Salish Sea Hake and pacific cod cannot be a large portion of seals diet. That the author probably cherry picked data from northern pacific.
I am agreeing with you the author is way off base
I am also saying we are far better predators then Seals if their was a Hake or Pacific Cod population increase as a result of a seal cull. We would just fish for them.
However, A lot of ENGO's dont believe in human intervention. Nature will balance itself. Why cull seas when you can cull fisheries first?
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C
Che
Guest
People still read the Vancouver Sun? This OpEd is a good example of why legacy media is dying. It's so easy to get on the internet and find out the other side of the story, and to quickly realize these guys are clueless as to what's going on out there that people just tune out, unsubscribe and go elsewhere.
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