fishin_magician
Well-Known Member
Great idea-bring that back for residents!
Guide licensing
- Thread starter Unreel
- Start date
Been there, done that. Can't remember why it failed.
It failed because it wasn't popular and when the first DFO meetings were held to explain it...there were more people there to protest than the rooms could hold...so it spilled out into the parking lot. In Victoria anyway. Only lasted 1 or 2 years.
tigerprawn
Active Member
Probably because the fisheries ministry never last the life cycle of a chinook salmon. It never had a chance
Keith Brown
Active Member
I'm new to fishing and boating on the ocean, so I have no specific solutions to the problem of unlicensed/untrained/unsafe guiding. However I did start and run my own business for over 40 year's. In most lines of business there is opportunity for cheating/unethically operators to undercut those who abide by the prevailing rules and regulations. Even though Department of Fishers and Oceans and Department of Highways or other regulatory agencies may be under staffed or under funded I am certain if "they" were presented with detailed information on illegal guiding activities that enforcement actions would be undertaken. The key is finding "they" within a large bureaucratic department. I assure you that within DFO of DOT that there is an officer/s that would love some low hanging fruit to levy enforcement action against.
Rain City
Crew Member
I like it. Like a crimsetoppers hotline but direct to the try-hard officers.
Aces
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately DFO had no interest in this when this became a problem in Tofino about 20 years ago. We ended up getting the town to develop a strict criteria for this business via licensing and enforcement. That drove the fly by nighters elsewhere
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Guide licensing was brought up at our Sfac meeting by DFO.
In the Vancouver area and Nanaimo they are having real issues with guys taking out like 10 people. Everyone on board has 1 day licences and they all have their limits of crab, lingcod, rockfish and prawns.
They are going out everyday and just pillaging everything said they are turning some areas back 30 years.
They claim they are not guiding but it’s pretty obvious all 1 days licenses and different people every day.
In the Vancouver area and Nanaimo they are having real issues with guys taking out like 10 people. Everyone on board has 1 day licences and they all have their limits of crab, lingcod, rockfish and prawns.
They are going out everyday and just pillaging everything said they are turning some areas back 30 years.
They claim they are not guiding but it’s pretty obvious all 1 days licenses and different people every day.
Doug
Well-Known Member
I know the frustration TC certified guides feel when there is no enforcement. Specially in the larger populated areas.
In the Sooke/Victoria areas there are numerous charter companies that run under the radar and have no TC vessel operator’s certifications, their vessels do not meet the TC standards and have no insurance.
Both Wolf and Pro and lots of others meet those TC requirements and carry the proper insurance whereas probably 25% do not. Covering your butt is the best way to go.
It appears to me to become a guide all you need is a boat, gear, and adverting. The only time it becomes an issue is if there is an accident and the operator must rely on insurance and a TC accident investigation (that is if TC are advised). You don’t need a GST number if you earn under $30K and any cash payments are not recorded, and Revenue Canada has no cross reference to TC.
There was a guy who was chartering for years, and he had moorage beside me, so I knew he went out and he went out a lot. He had no insurance at all on the vessel and he always said, “If I have an accident I have nothing to loss, take my boat or old truck”. He purchased a boat and gear, made up a cheap web site and charged $75 less than I did but people look at the price first, then the boat. When they got to the vessel it wasn’t the boat on his web site because “it was out of service (NOT), and this was his spare boat”. $75 less is not much when you consider 30 trips X $75 is only $2,250. My insurance is more.
I talked with TC about the issue, and they advised me that they do not have a budget to go to Sooke and inspect charter vessels. I asked, why you don’t go online and look up charter companies and see if you have them on file. I was also, advised by Sooke and Victoria that you do not require a business license, because you are fishing on Federal Gov property (tidal waters) and it is regulated by the Feds.
You can make all the rules you want but with no enforcement they mean nothing.
In the Sooke/Victoria areas there are numerous charter companies that run under the radar and have no TC vessel operator’s certifications, their vessels do not meet the TC standards and have no insurance.
Both Wolf and Pro and lots of others meet those TC requirements and carry the proper insurance whereas probably 25% do not. Covering your butt is the best way to go.
It appears to me to become a guide all you need is a boat, gear, and adverting. The only time it becomes an issue is if there is an accident and the operator must rely on insurance and a TC accident investigation (that is if TC are advised). You don’t need a GST number if you earn under $30K and any cash payments are not recorded, and Revenue Canada has no cross reference to TC.
There was a guy who was chartering for years, and he had moorage beside me, so I knew he went out and he went out a lot. He had no insurance at all on the vessel and he always said, “If I have an accident I have nothing to loss, take my boat or old truck”. He purchased a boat and gear, made up a cheap web site and charged $75 less than I did but people look at the price first, then the boat. When they got to the vessel it wasn’t the boat on his web site because “it was out of service (NOT), and this was his spare boat”. $75 less is not much when you consider 30 trips X $75 is only $2,250. My insurance is more.
I talked with TC about the issue, and they advised me that they do not have a budget to go to Sooke and inspect charter vessels. I asked, why you don’t go online and look up charter companies and see if you have them on file. I was also, advised by Sooke and Victoria that you do not require a business license, because you are fishing on Federal Gov property (tidal waters) and it is regulated by the Feds.
You can make all the rules you want but with no enforcement they mean nothing.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
This was already discussed at our sfac. This is a long away from being implemented. Not really worth worrying over.
kaelc
Crew Member
I'm always happy to promote local guides at the dock when a tourist asks to be taken out and I had to tell my friend, who once did an unlicensed trip, Give your f....ing head a shake. In my business the unlicensed/uninsured/law breaking actors are everywhere despite me taking the screws to the BC Ministry responsible, they did go after a bunch that I served up but unless the fines are in tens or hundreds of thousands they don't cover the cost of enforcement or deter new bad actors from entering the game. Pricing at 50-30% of what I charge is common. Real business like our guides spend millions on local fishing stores, stores, mechanics, insurance companies, provide significant tax revue and deserve ever dam tip they get. If you need voices of support if additional licensing requirements affect you, I'm happy to be a pain in politicians backside. I'm currently slicing up House of Commons video to use their own slimey voices against them....but I digress.
Enjoy your quiet season, you have earned it.
PS. left a couple of 5 star google reviews for a couple of members today.
Enjoy your quiet season, you have earned it.
PS. left a couple of 5 star google reviews for a couple of members today.
ziggy
Well-Known Member
Maybe a partial solution is to include the license held,any professional organization you’re a member of and the fact you’re insured in your advertising? Pretty common for other tradesmen. Will it stop everyone looking for a deal, likely not, but some folks will take note for sure.
BC Coast Pilot
Well-Known Member
The problem there is that the consumer does not know what they are looking at, or what is required. I have a Fishing Master class 3 certification, what does that mean? And no one likes a rat Jon.
searun
Well-Known Member
On it, look for the January issue of Island Fisherman Magazine.
Aces
Well-Known Member
Thanks again for all your efforts
searun
Well-Known Member
Thanks the questions on this thread inspired me - tried writing the article to capture a lot of the questions guests seem to ask (or should ask) when they are booking. Really trying to encourage the consumer to give more thought and attention to first having a good idea of what experience they really want, then researching the guide or lodge operator to make sure what is offered is a best match for meeting their expectations. One important element is getting a guide that has all the safety training, certifications and insurance. Also good to dig deeper to understand what is offered - price/value is important.
Little things like having fish processing and packaging included - if the difference in price between one operator and next is $100/day, then the one offering full processing is worth every penny ( Vac Pac - $3.00/pound x 50 lbs of fish = $150).
wolf
Well-Known Member
Problem is most clients look at price (we all do looking for the best deal ) and go with that, I get all the time well this guy is only $$$ why are you more expensive then him . I reply well I have a bigger nicer boat. with stand up bathroom, heated cabin,running hot water and room to move... to most that doesnt matter the want cheap...im ok with that as thats the client I really dont want .
scott craven
Well-Known Member
Let's face it guides need to make an income to support their business
but $1200 a day is more than most can afford.
That's why there are unqualified operators as they see an opportunity.
I know boats cost money and don't run on air, I have one.
but $1200 a day is more than most can afford.
That's why there are unqualified operators as they see an opportunity.
I know boats cost money and don't run on air, I have one.
ziggy
Well-Known Member
I think like most trades the public may not understand what the qualification actually means, but they quickly notice the key part like Fishing Master, maybe not class 3 certification. I’m pretty sure everyone would understand basic things like Transport Canada Certified and for sure Insured. Face It when we go to a Doctor, Lawyer etc. who knows what all the post nominal letters mean.
If the Industry adopts a strategy of always listing qualifications the public will become more educated and notice when there is no list. Just a thought.
