Fish Farm trouble in BC.

[Fishmyster]

Video footage from the bowels of a fish farm pen. It is amazing how many runts and sick fish will live when an environment with no predation and has constant supply of food. In the wild, most of those hurting specimens would have become nothing more than a statistic in survival rate but never seen. They all would have been long consumed by seals or starved to death.
I have seen many of those same ill appearances in wild salmon but not in the same concentration as this video or being publicized. Wonder how much video didn't make the presentation because there was not enough death and doom for the desired marketing purpose??
The herring, shiner perch and juvenile rockfish look quite healthy!

 

[shuswap]

Why don't you post this in the comments section of the website that has published this paper. That way the authors would have a chance to answer your points. This is important subject to all of us who care about wild salmon and it's a shame that the discourse is not properly done.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/comments?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0188793

Point taken, however, I don’t see the same consistency across the board from others. Maybe it’s for the same reason you and many others use pseudonyms on this board. I don’t necessarily disagree with how you would like this done. Happy Holidays.

 

[salmonkiller01]

Thanks for pointing out that the harvested salmon was worth 776.8M from the farms. Have you calculated the additional value that happen from this harvest?

We all understand the the sport fishing industry isn't just the licenses sold by the government to recreational fishermen? Right? So Bigdoegh was quick to pat you on the back, maybe he will be so quick with this:

CAMPBELL RIVER, B.C. – An independent economic analysis of the salmon aquaculture industry in British Columbia shows an increase of 37% over the past three years in its value to the province, resulting in the creation of over 1,600 jobs. Overall, farming and processing 92,800 Metric Tonnes of salmon in 2016 resulted in over $1.5-billion towards the B.C. economy.
• The total output generated by the B.C. farm-raised salmon industry increased 37 percent from $1,144.0 million to $1,561.9 million.
• The total GDP generated by the B.C. farm-raised salmon industry increased 36 percent from $411.5 million to $557.8 million.
• The total employment generated by the B.C. farm-raised salmon industry increased 33 percent from 4,977 to 6,610 full-time equivalents.
• The government taxes generated by the B.C. farm-raised salmon industry increased 39 percent from $62.0 to $86.1 million.
• The total production of farm-raised salmon in B.C. has increased 8% since 2002.


I probably shouldn't understate the numbers like I did, you are right AA - got me again. The industry is actually worth $1.5B to BC. Oops - my bad.

PS: Numbers have been verified by Price Waterhouse - probably the worst firm ever - we all know how they messed up the Oscars!

Do you have a link to this info, can not find it with a google search?

 

[spopadyn]

Do you have a link to this info, can not find it with a google search?

Sorry been off for a few days. DFO has lots in their info but spread out. As does MNP and Price Waterhouse. Start with this. Need more, let me know but all stats are verified independently. Sorry, posting from an iPad. Might be an older dated post but you can probably get the 2016 numbers from there. Cheers.

http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/BCSFA_Econ_ImpactStudy-SEP2017.pdf

 

[bigdogeh]

Video footage from the bowels of a fish farm pen. It is amazing how many runts and sick fish will live when an environment with no predation and has constant supply of food. In the wild, most of those hurting specimens would have become nothing more than a statistic in survival rate but never seen. They all would have been long consumed by seals or starved to death.
I have seen many of those same ill appearances in wild salmon but not in the same concentration as this video or being publicized. Wonder how much video didn't make the presentation because there was not enough death and doom for the desired marketing purpose??
The herring, shiner perch and juvenile rockfish look quite healthy!

and that's the problem. it isn't a natural environment where sick species or individuals would normally be culled by predators and taken out of the ecosystem. There is nothing natural what-so-ever about an open net pen fish farm that allows disease, virus, and sea lice to flourish. How much video? the video's were mostly taken by one individual (a first nations chief from the broughton archipelago who wants these disease factories removed from his territory) with a go pro. all taken against the wishes of these fish farms. There would be a ton of these video's if the fish farms were more open and didn't have anything to hide. There are enough video's of these diseased fish from one or two individuals to cause ample alarm and show the industry (and our government) isn't as clean as the image they are trying to get across. One of those video's showed almost every fish in the pen had some sort of gill disease where their gills had become distended.. You don't think those farmers knew about that? Where are the regulators? Oh yeah... the regulators of the industry are also the proponents of the industry... How convenient... Those diseased fish have no place along our wild salmon migratory routes. The herring, shiners and perch are just as susceptible to disease. I don't think anyone vaccinates them. Until they come out with a vaccination that can counter every existing disease and virus that an atlantic salmon is succeptible to, there is no reason for them to be in our waters if they were truly following the precautionary principle. Just more lip service from a corrupt branch of government. We seem to get a lot of that this day and age.

 

[bones]

there was how many fish on that, those farms? you have a video showing a few sick fish..... as it been said by anti fish farm supporters in the past bigdog. the fish just sink so we dont know.......OR they get eaten by predators. in a farm system you are aware that they have a net wrapped around them and cant be easily eaten by predators. thus allowing you to see the unnatural part of selection. you also know why the farm does not remove as well, right

 

[Birdsnest]

it isn't a natural environment where sick species or individuals would normally be culled by predators and taken out of the ecosystem. There is nothing natural what-so-ever about an open net pen fish farm that allows disease, virus, and sea lice to flourish.

Obviously it isn't a natural environment. Its a farm which it actually quiet natural in the sense the humans have been farming for like 11000 years or more.

The statement that fish farms allow disease and viruses etc... what kind of farmer does this to animals. In order for a farmer to succeed he/she must show concern to prevent such items. It just makes no sense that a farmer would "allow" this to happen.

 

[Fish Camp]

From how I see it is scrappings from the floor go to a pit https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...=r2P3Hm7oNBc&usg=AOvVaw2GJej0Wm-xSWdYGnodw1spThen all the waste from rearing large amounts of animals gets auggerd into a line and spread on fields.https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...=RcebuR4QTL0&usg=AOvVaw3qWd352SIpFJ2_CoQSlP0s.Crops are growen with and feed back to animals ,and cycle of bad stuff continues to spread to livestock, wildlife that eat ,walk through and carry to other farms that have crops for human consumption.

 

[bigdogeh]

Obviously it isn't a natural environment. Its a farm which it actually quiet natural in the sense the humans have been farming for like 11000 years or more.

The statement that fish farms allow disease and viruses etc... what kind of farmer does this to animals. In order for a farmer to succeed he/she must show concern to prevent such items. It just makes no sense that a farmer would "allow" this to happen.

Was that video doctored? Is the video lying? Do I need to post it in this thread since I didn't see any open net pen fish farm proponents respond to it in the other thread I started. Or does the truth hurt regarding the disease that does exist in these open net pens when it's staring you in the face? Hard to refute the video evidence. But apparently we have healthy farmed fish here in BC since we inoculate our fish. Or so our government and the fish farm industry tell us...

 

[Birdsnest]

Is this video lying?

Really, you can draw factual information from a video?
I would suggest not going to your local elementary school for your very likely to draw some horrific conclusions about our children.

 

[terrin]

Was that video doctored? Is the video lying? Do I need to post it in this thread since I didn't see any open net pen fish farm proponents respond to it in the other thread I started. Or does the truth hurt regarding the disease that does exist in these open net pens when it's staring you in the face? Hard to refute the video evidence. But apparently we have healthy farmed fish here in BC since we inoculate our fish. Or so our government and the fish farm industry tell us...

What Video are you refering to?

 

[Birdsnest]

Yeah, those fish look a bit better than those diseased ones the fish farmers are producing. Probably a bit better taken care of as well in a closed containment environment. Thxs for the comparison.

So your saying yes you can draw factual info from just a video. Ok.

 

[bigdogeh]

Is this video lying?

Really, you can draw factual information from a video?
I would suggest not going to your local elementary school for your very likely to draw some horrific conclusions about our children.

Yeah, those fish in the fish tank look a bit better than those diseased ones the fish farmers are producing. Probably a bit better taken care of as well in a closed containment environment. Thxs for the comparison.

Here it is again in-case you wanted to do a comparison in what diseased fish look like as compared to healthier fish.
One question, can you tell me you can't conclude from this video that those fish aren't diseased? Or would you need more evidence? The video isn't enough evidence for you to conclude the fish are diseased? Or are those healthy fish? The fish farm operators must think so, because we know they would be removing fish like that at first sign of disease.... that's what our government and regulation tells us they must do in order to keep operating. But again, they can't be diseased because we've been told they've all been inoculated.

What Video are you refering to?

The video above terrin

 

[wildmanyeah]

I’m surprised you guys haven’t found the most reveling scary part on the report and even has me a bit concerned.

Extra likes to whoever finds it



I’ll give u a hint it has to do with this

Since none of the anti fish farm guys bothered to read the report because it was done by the Evil DFO and their promoters and can't be trusted. Here is something from the report that i personally found a bit disturbing. How is 10%reduction in returning sockeye acceptable? Again the anti fish farm guys can't use this in their arguments because they would then have to admit that DFO's assessments are good and would go against most of their other arguments.

"Abundance

The potential consequence categories to the abundance of returning adult Fraser River Sockeye Salmon were defined prior to the risk assessment as ranging from negligible (up to a 1% reduction) through to extreme (over 50% reduction). Using the proxy mortality rates from the outbreak in out-migrating smolts (2.5 to 8%) as the potential reduction in the population associated with IHNV infection and disease attributable to Atlantic Salmon farms, it was concluded with high uncertainty that the potential magnitude of consequences to the abundance of Fraser River Sockeye Salmon resulting from IHNV infection attributable to Atlantic Salmon farms would be moderate (between 5 and 10% reduction in the number of returning adult Fraser River Sockeye Salmon). The lack of information on population effects of IHN resulting from exposure in seawater accounted for the high uncertainty associated with this assessment.

Diversity

The consequence to diversity was assessed against predicted reductions in abundance of conservation units and whether or not that reduction for either cyclic or non-cyclic stocks would result in the loss of a conservation unit. Given an estimated range of 2.5 to 8% mortality from IHN in seawater, this reduction in abundance in any given year would be compensated in other years in both cyclic and non-cyclic Fraser River Sockeye Salmon stocks. Consequently, it was concluded with high uncertainty that the potential magnitude of consequences to the diversity of Fraser River Sockeye Salmon resulting from IHNV infection attributable to Atlantic Salmon farms would be moderate (i.e., moderate reduction in abundance in some conservation units that would not result in the loss of a Fraser River Sockeye Salmon conservation unit). The lack of information on population effects of IHN resulting from exposure in seawater accounted for the high uncertainty associated with this assessment."

 

[bigdogeh]

"it was concluded with high uncertainty that the potential magnitude of consequences to the abundance of Fraser River Sockeye Salmon resulting from IHNV infection attributable to Atlantic Salmon farms would be moderate (between 5 and 10% reduction in the number of returning adult Fraser River Sockeye Salmon)."


Actually I did read it and when I see a phrase "with high uncertainty" it makes me wonder why they even bothered putting out the report. (besides the good headline for the FF industry) That one phrase shows me they aren't abiding by the precautionary principle when they can't be certain what the potential magnitude of the consequences to the abundance of Fraser River Sockeye Salmon resulting from IHNV infection attributable to Atlantic Salmon farms is.
The phrase "high uncertainty" is used multiple times throughout that report.
And yes, it is disturbing.

 

[wildmanyeah]

The High Uncertainty comes from many factors like the diversion rate. For example if they go out and come in thought area 20 then they would miss the majority of the fish farms. Sure it's a mute point now as most fish farms vaccinate for this but 10 years ago this would of been herndious.

Obviously there is a need for more oversight/enforcement in the industry, just like sportfishing and commercial fishing.

 

[spopadyn]

Was that video doctored? Is the video lying? Do I need to post it in this thread since I didn't see any open net pen fish farm proponents respond to it in the other thread I started. Or does the truth hurt regarding the disease that does exist in these open net pens when it's staring you in the face? Hard to refute the video evidence. But apparently we have healthy farmed fish here in BC since we inoculate our fish. Or so our government and the fish farm industry tell us...

Waited for fogged in to help correct. Okay, problem one: can you confirm the video is not cut and spliced. Are we seeing only the worst or is this representative of actual science? You are claiming it is scientific, so if the anti ff advocates paid and went with me to a random ff, is this what they would see? Probably not - being played to tug at your emotions. Look, it is like this: if I showed you a video of a bad car wreck, and that was it, you would conclude all cars are dangerous and need to be banned. If I showed you a car wreck then 10000 cars driving safely, you would be bored, but probably wouldn't think cars need to be banned. There is zero science in this video, in fact I think portions of it are of fish in an aquarium. Why doesn't AM turn over all the video footage and let us look through the hours and hours to find these snippets? I know, because they don't inflame rhetoric if you present the complete picture.

Science is balanced. The anti-ff lobby needs to give up on videos and show those simple things we call facts. Btw, where are all the AM quotes stating that the independent lab results which contradicted her findings were forged or false. Give me those. They must exist. If they don't, this video is about as scientific as **** propaganda!

 

[shuswap]

Was that video doctored? Is the video lying? Do I need to post it in this thread since I didn't see any open net pen fish farm proponents respond to it in the other thread I started. Or does the truth hurt regarding the disease that does exist in these open net pens when it's staring you in the face? Hard to refute the video evidence. But apparently we have healthy farmed fish here in BC since we inoculate our fish. Or so our government and the fish farm industry tell us...

Old news. Responded to this edited video before. I agree with spopadyn’s comments.
This isn’t science - it’s propaganda designed to sway public opinion which I admit has been successful in some circles. It subtly jumps to conclusions by inserting questions but really it’s telling the viewing public what they feel it is. Have you ever visited a fish hatchery. Not every individual fish is the same. Some are going to have mutations and some are going to be impacted by a pathogen either acutely or chronically. I especially don’t find it very informative to have unknowledgeable people creating a video like this, but to each their own.

 

[agentaqua]

...Of course infection rate is greater in the lower regions if that’s where most of the samples are from. Additionally, just because you catch an adult salmon at one location doesn’t necessarily mean that’s its final destination, so it throws the catagorizing of challenged and not challenged by the authors into question. Those captured in the ocean could very well be heading to terminal areas in the mid and upper Fraser, so by definition they would be in the challenged catagory. This is why statisticians are not fisheries biologists....

Generally liked & agreed w your post, Shuswap.

BUT - I think this claim thrown out there by the script writers employed by the BCSFA - and subsequently blindly parroted by industry defenders and promoters - including some at DFO - is quite misleading - as it was intended to be.

More samples absolutely DO NOT cause an increase in reported infection rates.

More samples may be required to accurately find a low prevalence rate in the wild population. Less samples (e.g. in the upper watershed above Hope) might mean they did not take enough to fins a low prevalence rate in the samples above Hope - not the other way around.

Ya - I'd like to see the BCSFA try to publish that in a scientific journal, GLG....

 

[Birdsnest]

BUT - I think this claim thrown out there by the script writers employed by the BCSFA - and subsequently blindly parroted by industry defenders and promoters - including some at DFO - is quite misleading - as it was intended to be.

I just role my eyes at comments like the one above. Pure grouping of individuals and slight of hand personal attack. Very slight of hand however I doubt shushwap is an idiot which is what you are suggesting here.