El Nino is back!
- Thread starter searun
- Start date
Charlie
Well-Known Member
“Climategate”… I like “Salmongate” better! Salmongate might even have more validity? Never did care for Gore!
The article is addressing the ongoing El Niño of 2010. I didn’t read anything not already known or new there? Did I miss something? El Niño and Plankton have always been hand-in-hand, which there also might be some relation with the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO). All of which are “natural reoccurring” events and can and do effect “ocean conditions”.
http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/tao/elnino/el-nino-story.html
http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~mantua/REPORTS/PDO/PDO_egec.htm
http://jisao.washington.edu/pdo/
http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/research/divisions/fed/oeip/ca-pdo.cfm
If you don’t think mankind is “polluting” or having a major impact on the environment… you might want to start Goggling? I have not been to Mumbai, but have seen China, every major city in Mexico, and just about every other country on the Pacific Rim. Huge human environmental impacts, with virtually no governmental controls. However, one of the most concerning is none other than “The Great Pacific Garbage Patch”! But, that really has nothing to do with the creating “dead zones”? Think more along the lines of “upwelling”… No “upwelling”- equals little or no oxygen concentration - equals “dead zone”! Humboldt squid do use those zones, which is good - for the salmon, as they don’t!
http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/research/divisions/fed/oeip/db-coastal-upwelling-index.cfm
http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/products/PFEL/modeled/indices/upwelling/NA/click_map.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070305144628.htm
http://www.science-house.org/nesdis/upwelling/background.html
You might want to go a tad deeper on Krill… which I agree, is very important? Krill is actually a “Zooplankton”, which feed off “Phytoplankton” – all are in the “Plankton” family. Plankton actually consists of any drifting organisms (animals, plants, archaea, or bacteria). It is “Phytoplankton” responsible for much of the oxygen present in the Earth's atmosphere – half of the total amount produced by all plant life. You lose the “Plankton”, you not only lose the salmon - along with most other ocean species, but probably “us” too?
http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/plankton/
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061207084052.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plankton
I agree, I am quite sure “DFO” will blame Global Warming, Climate Change, and poor ocean conditions for the decline of BC salmon, even this coming year and even while the PS and Columbia stocks are increasing! But, I guess Yankee fish might be more used to the “pollution”?
Is “Global Warming real… you bet it is! Anthropogenic Global Warming(AGW) real… yep, it is also! If anyone doesn’t think any of the Global Warming is derived from human activities – just look around you! It’s all over the place! But, like already mentioned – the entire human race can shut “everything” down and guess what, there will still be Global Warming! And, there are “huge” dollars being made off it!
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/crowley.html
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/?report=global&year=2010&month=2&submitted=Get+Report
http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=15719298
Unfortunately, as Scott so very skillfully put it... and very much applies to Global Warming also, “…our tenure on mother earth the pollution we have caused equates to a "fart in a windstorm" in the grand scheme of the planet.” That does some it up!
Hope all my references are okay?
The article is addressing the ongoing El Niño of 2010. I didn’t read anything not already known or new there? Did I miss something? El Niño and Plankton have always been hand-in-hand, which there also might be some relation with the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO). All of which are “natural reoccurring” events and can and do effect “ocean conditions”.
http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/tao/elnino/el-nino-story.html
http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~mantua/REPORTS/PDO/PDO_egec.htm
http://jisao.washington.edu/pdo/
http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/research/divisions/fed/oeip/ca-pdo.cfm
If you don’t think mankind is “polluting” or having a major impact on the environment… you might want to start Goggling? I have not been to Mumbai, but have seen China, every major city in Mexico, and just about every other country on the Pacific Rim. Huge human environmental impacts, with virtually no governmental controls. However, one of the most concerning is none other than “The Great Pacific Garbage Patch”! But, that really has nothing to do with the creating “dead zones”? Think more along the lines of “upwelling”… No “upwelling”- equals little or no oxygen concentration - equals “dead zone”! Humboldt squid do use those zones, which is good - for the salmon, as they don’t!
http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/research/divisions/fed/oeip/db-coastal-upwelling-index.cfm
http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/products/PFEL/modeled/indices/upwelling/NA/click_map.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070305144628.htm
http://www.science-house.org/nesdis/upwelling/background.html
You might want to go a tad deeper on Krill… which I agree, is very important? Krill is actually a “Zooplankton”, which feed off “Phytoplankton” – all are in the “Plankton” family. Plankton actually consists of any drifting organisms (animals, plants, archaea, or bacteria). It is “Phytoplankton” responsible for much of the oxygen present in the Earth's atmosphere – half of the total amount produced by all plant life. You lose the “Plankton”, you not only lose the salmon - along with most other ocean species, but probably “us” too?
http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/plankton/
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061207084052.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plankton
I agree, I am quite sure “DFO” will blame Global Warming, Climate Change, and poor ocean conditions for the decline of BC salmon, even this coming year and even while the PS and Columbia stocks are increasing! But, I guess Yankee fish might be more used to the “pollution”?
Is “Global Warming real… you bet it is! Anthropogenic Global Warming(AGW) real… yep, it is also! If anyone doesn’t think any of the Global Warming is derived from human activities – just look around you! It’s all over the place! But, like already mentioned – the entire human race can shut “everything” down and guess what, there will still be Global Warming! And, there are “huge” dollars being made off it!
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/crowley.html
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/?report=global&year=2010&month=2&submitted=Get+Report
http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=15719298
Unfortunately, as Scott so very skillfully put it... and very much applies to Global Warming also, “…our tenure on mother earth the pollution we have caused equates to a "fart in a windstorm" in the grand scheme of the planet.” That does some it up!
Hope all my references are okay?
ahh, yes..........some of you just act like the frog about to be boiled. 'cause it didn't fall out of the sky and hit'yah between the eyes, or yah didn't get a tweet, it don't exist....sure thing.....us old guys have watched the trends for our life times. we warned that the salmon were declining and being overharvested back in the 60s, but the deniers simply said '...can't happen, bunch of bunk...' ahha, no climate change, right'oh, and if it blows'yur skirt up, continue to deny, ok with me, but just as the salmon are going downhill, so is our climate.
references are fine charlie, conclusions suck............
the columbia river fish are not in ok shape. what is going on is the release of 100,000,000 smolt this season to try and 'maintain' some sort of run return. remember hatchery fish returns are about 1% of release numbers. so please, kill all the raceway fish you can get yur hands on..........
references are fine charlie, conclusions suck............
the columbia river fish are not in ok shape. what is going on is the release of 100,000,000 smolt this season to try and 'maintain' some sort of run return. remember hatchery fish returns are about 1% of release numbers. so please, kill all the raceway fish you can get yur hands on..........
scott craven
Well-Known Member
Wow, lots of doom and gloom reelfast 
C
cliffjumper
Guest
One teeny asteroid can alter your entire day.
One slightly big tectonic shift can...
Nothing a few volancoes can't change...
Things warm up & things cool down and cycles repeat and repeat and repeat... But there is the one constant... Man's arrogance in their view of self-importance, against a universe incomprehensible in scale and capricious whimsey.
One slightly big tectonic shift can...
Nothing a few volancoes can't change...
Things warm up & things cool down and cycles repeat and repeat and repeat... But there is the one constant... Man's arrogance in their view of self-importance, against a universe incomprehensible in scale and capricious whimsey.
C
cliffjumper
Guest
One teeny asteroid can alter your entire day.
One slightly big tectonic shift can...
Nothing a few volancoes can't change...
Things warm up & things cool down and cycles repeat and repeat and repeat... But there is the one constant... Man's arrogance in their view of self-importance, against a universe incomprehensible in scale and capricious whimsey.
One slightly big tectonic shift can...
Nothing a few volancoes can't change...
Things warm up & things cool down and cycles repeat and repeat and repeat... But there is the one constant... Man's arrogance in their view of self-importance, against a universe incomprehensible in scale and capricious whimsey.
searun
Well-Known Member
Wow, been away for a few days and lots of hot debate on this topic. Regardless of where you personally stand on the cause of the ocean changes, the impact appears to be significant if</u> these conditions continue.
At the very least as avid anglers we will have to learn to adapt and change our approach to fishing if this gets worse.
While I would like to see DFO pump out a lot more hatchery fish to match the effort south of the 49th, none of that will make any difference if ocean conditions do not improve. So again, we will need to adapt to change...time to start a tuna blog
Searun
At the very least as avid anglers we will have to learn to adapt and change our approach to fishing if this gets worse.
While I would like to see DFO pump out a lot more hatchery fish to match the effort south of the 49th, none of that will make any difference if ocean conditions do not improve. So again, we will need to adapt to change...time to start a tuna blog
Searun
searun
Well-Known Member
Wow, been away for a few days and lots of hot debate on this topic. Regardless of where you personally stand on the cause of the ocean changes, the impact appears to be significant if</u> these conditions continue.
At the very least as avid anglers we will have to learn to adapt and change our approach to fishing if this gets worse.
While I would like to see DFO pump out a lot more hatchery fish to match the effort south of the 49th, none of that will make any difference if ocean conditions do not improve. So again, we will need to adapt to change...time to start a tuna blog
Searun
At the very least as avid anglers we will have to learn to adapt and change our approach to fishing if this gets worse.
While I would like to see DFO pump out a lot more hatchery fish to match the effort south of the 49th, none of that will make any difference if ocean conditions do not improve. So again, we will need to adapt to change...time to start a tuna blog
Searun
Charlie
Well-Known Member
I would not sell your salmon gear yet, you still have a few years! 
But, I am thinking about re-installing my "outriggers" this year?
This El Niño will probably have the same effect on ocean conditions as the one in 1997- 1998?
2008 was the coolest year of the decade. If this El Niño continues as predicted, just be ready to kill a bunch of ‘Mackerel’ before they move in and eat all our out migrating smolts! Just think 1998!
“2000 to December 2009 was the warmest decade on record. Throughout the last three decades, the GISS surface temperature record shows an upward trend of about “0.2°C (0.36°F)” per decade.” (THAT IS PER “DECADE”!)
El Niño = Bad, La Niña = good, for salmon. “An especially powerful El Niño cycle in 1998 is thought to have contributed to the unusually high temperatures that year, and Hansen's group estimates that there's a good chance 2010 will be the warmest year on record if the current El Niño persists. At most, scientists estimate that El Niño and La Niña can cause global temperatures to deviate by about 0.2°C (0.36°F). “ The whole article is here: http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20100121/
BTW... Scotts observation about the Strait of Juan de Fuca, is correct! If you average temperatures throughout the years - ‘Race Rocks’, from 1922 through 2000 averages 9.10 degrees. From 2002 through 2008 the average was 9.63. So, from 1922 through 2008 (86 years) the temperature appears to be an average of 0.56 degrees warmer? The warmest was in 1998 at 10.4 (El Niño). “I” think it is safe to say ‘Global Warming’ and ‘Ocean Conditions’ aren’t killing off our salmon, yet!
http://www.racerocks.com/racerock/data/seatemp/seatemppast.htm
IMHO... Those ‘fish farms’ are a greater threat than any El Niño!
But, I am thinking about re-installing my "outriggers" this year?
This El Niño will probably have the same effect on ocean conditions as the one in 1997- 1998?
2008 was the coolest year of the decade. If this El Niño continues as predicted, just be ready to kill a bunch of ‘Mackerel’ before they move in and eat all our out migrating smolts! Just think 1998!
“2000 to December 2009 was the warmest decade on record. Throughout the last three decades, the GISS surface temperature record shows an upward trend of about “0.2°C (0.36°F)” per decade.” (THAT IS PER “DECADE”!)
El Niño = Bad, La Niña = good, for salmon. “An especially powerful El Niño cycle in 1998 is thought to have contributed to the unusually high temperatures that year, and Hansen's group estimates that there's a good chance 2010 will be the warmest year on record if the current El Niño persists. At most, scientists estimate that El Niño and La Niña can cause global temperatures to deviate by about 0.2°C (0.36°F). “ The whole article is here: http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20100121/
BTW... Scotts observation about the Strait of Juan de Fuca, is correct! If you average temperatures throughout the years - ‘Race Rocks’, from 1922 through 2000 averages 9.10 degrees. From 2002 through 2008 the average was 9.63. So, from 1922 through 2008 (86 years) the temperature appears to be an average of 0.56 degrees warmer? The warmest was in 1998 at 10.4 (El Niño). “I” think it is safe to say ‘Global Warming’ and ‘Ocean Conditions’ aren’t killing off our salmon, yet!
http://www.racerocks.com/racerock/data/seatemp/seatemppast.htm
IMHO... Those ‘fish farms’ are a greater threat than any El Niño!
Charlie
Well-Known Member
I would not sell your salmon gear yet, you still have a few years!
But, I am thinking about re-installing my "outriggers" this year?
This El Niño will probably have the same effect on ocean conditions as the one in 1997- 1998?
2008 was the coolest year of the decade. If this El Niño continues as predicted, just be ready to kill a bunch of ‘Mackerel’ before they move in and eat all our out migrating smolts! Just think 1998!
“2000 to December 2009 was the warmest decade on record. Throughout the last three decades, the GISS surface temperature record shows an upward trend of about “0.2°C (0.36°F)” per decade.” (THAT IS PER “DECADE”!)
El Niño = Bad, La Niña = good, for salmon. “An especially powerful El Niño cycle in 1998 is thought to have contributed to the unusually high temperatures that year, and Hansen's group estimates that there's a good chance 2010 will be the warmest year on record if the current El Niño persists. At most, scientists estimate that El Niño and La Niña can cause global temperatures to deviate by about 0.2°C (0.36°F). “ The whole article is here: http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20100121/
BTW... Scotts observation about the Strait of Juan de Fuca, is correct! If you average temperatures throughout the years - ‘Race Rocks’, from 1922 through 2000 averages 9.10 degrees. From 2002 through 2008 the average was 9.63. So, from 1922 through 2008 (86 years) the temperature appears to be an average of 0.56 degrees warmer? The warmest was in 1998 at 10.4 (El Niño). “I” think it is safe to say ‘Global Warming’ and ‘Ocean Conditions’ aren’t killing off our salmon, yet!
http://www.racerocks.com/racerock/data/seatemp/seatemppast.htm
IMHO... Those ‘fish farms’ are a greater threat than any El Niño!
But, I am thinking about re-installing my "outriggers" this year?
This El Niño will probably have the same effect on ocean conditions as the one in 1997- 1998?
2008 was the coolest year of the decade. If this El Niño continues as predicted, just be ready to kill a bunch of ‘Mackerel’ before they move in and eat all our out migrating smolts! Just think 1998!
“2000 to December 2009 was the warmest decade on record. Throughout the last three decades, the GISS surface temperature record shows an upward trend of about “0.2°C (0.36°F)” per decade.” (THAT IS PER “DECADE”!)
El Niño = Bad, La Niña = good, for salmon. “An especially powerful El Niño cycle in 1998 is thought to have contributed to the unusually high temperatures that year, and Hansen's group estimates that there's a good chance 2010 will be the warmest year on record if the current El Niño persists. At most, scientists estimate that El Niño and La Niña can cause global temperatures to deviate by about 0.2°C (0.36°F). “ The whole article is here: http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20100121/
BTW... Scotts observation about the Strait of Juan de Fuca, is correct! If you average temperatures throughout the years - ‘Race Rocks’, from 1922 through 2000 averages 9.10 degrees. From 2002 through 2008 the average was 9.63. So, from 1922 through 2008 (86 years) the temperature appears to be an average of 0.56 degrees warmer? The warmest was in 1998 at 10.4 (El Niño). “I” think it is safe to say ‘Global Warming’ and ‘Ocean Conditions’ aren’t killing off our salmon, yet!
http://www.racerocks.com/racerock/data/seatemp/seatemppast.htm
IMHO... Those ‘fish farms’ are a greater threat than any El Niño!
an example of where the denial starts and how its funded with lots and lots of big bucks out to make lots and lots more big bucks:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brendan-demelle/greenpeace-unmasks-koch-i_b_518036.html
i assume you noticed the islands in bangladesh have now gone under water as the sea level has risen. now what caused the water levels to rise?????????????
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brendan-demelle/greenpeace-unmasks-koch-i_b_518036.html
i assume you noticed the islands in bangladesh have now gone under water as the sea level has risen. now what caused the water levels to rise?????????????
an example of where the denial starts and how its funded with lots and lots of big bucks out to make lots and lots more big bucks:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brendan-demelle/greenpeace-unmasks-koch-i_b_518036.html
i assume you noticed the islands in bangladesh have now gone under water as the sea level has risen. now what caused the water levels to rise?????????????
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brendan-demelle/greenpeace-unmasks-koch-i_b_518036.html
i assume you noticed the islands in bangladesh have now gone under water as the sea level has risen. now what caused the water levels to rise?????????????
P
Pablo2079
Guest
Unfortunately, I think we've already passed a tipping point. We should try to slow the process as much as possible, but don't think this issue can turn around on a dime. Oceans will continue to acidify and warm... hopefully a solution will come to light.
To try and use the excuse that "the Earth is always changing" and "we've warmed and cooled before" is missing the point. It has never happened like this before...
To try and use the excuse that "the Earth is always changing" and "we've warmed and cooled before" is missing the point. It has never happened like this before...
P
Pablo2079
Guest
Unfortunately, I think we've already passed a tipping point. We should try to slow the process as much as possible, but don't think this issue can turn around on a dime. Oceans will continue to acidify and warm... hopefully a solution will come to light.
To try and use the excuse that "the Earth is always changing" and "we've warmed and cooled before" is missing the point. It has never happened like this before...
To try and use the excuse that "the Earth is always changing" and "we've warmed and cooled before" is missing the point. It has never happened like this before...
scott craven
Well-Known Member
To try and use the excuse that "the Earth is always changing" and "we've warmed and cooled before" is missing the point. It has never happened like this before...
not so sure about that statement, read a little about the forming of the planet, there have been times when the atmosphere contained little if any oxygen. sulphur gases and nitrogen were the predominant components.
there have been times when the surface temps both hot and cold were so extreme
no life forms could exist.
scott craven
Well-Known Member
To try and use the excuse that "the Earth is always changing" and "we've warmed and cooled before" is missing the point. It has never happened like this before...
not so sure about that statement, read a little about the forming of the planet, there have been times when the atmosphere contained little if any oxygen. sulphur gases and nitrogen were the predominant components.
there have been times when the surface temps both hot and cold were so extreme
no life forms could exist.
P
Pablo2079
Guest
To compare what's happening now to the formation of the planet and when stromotilites dominated shallow water seas first generating our oxygenated atomosphere is really reaching.
But, as I stated above, I think we've reached a tipping point. Once a good percentage of the methane hydrates start to "melt" along the coastlines and under the permafrost, we're really in for it.
But, back to El Nino and the effect on fishing.... I had one of my best years of fishing in '98 and that was a strong El Nino year. Hoping for a repeat!
But, as I stated above, I think we've reached a tipping point. Once a good percentage of the methane hydrates start to "melt" along the coastlines and under the permafrost, we're really in for it.
But, back to El Nino and the effect on fishing.... I had one of my best years of fishing in '98 and that was a strong El Nino year. Hoping for a repeat!
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