Creel survey

[Tailspin]

So the creel is the answer to the problem? Continue on as we have with fingers crossed? Pretty open minded here, but I find it hard to just be a good little boy and play the same game. That said, what options do we have, the better of two evils may well be to continue on as we have.

We need a SINGLE private non conflicting organizaton to provide some leadership and clear direction, adaptive capacity, with a long term sustainable goal in mind! Until that develops we are concentrating our efforts in a spiderweb effect only to peter out either direction we take. The commy boyz have that solidarity, the money to back it up and one primary path to achieve goals.

 

[Deewar25]

head return is the bigger answer to the problem IMH - this is what proves to them what fish we are actually catching in the JDF. This is what shows them the dominance of the US hatchery fishery and if we can provide enough of that info to them, there is no 'questioning' it. No guides with an agenda omiitting information in log books, no people shuffling past creel or just plain refusing information. Get those heads in, and that requires places like Cheanuh to make sure its visible where to drop off etc etc - make sure its clearly worded at the cleaning stations etc etc Educate the idiots that take out the heads for damn crab bait that they are screwing it for everyone else! Besides a political battle against first nations, fish farms, and DFO, I think thats one of the biggest things we can do right now.

 

[Foxsea]

We need a SINGLE private non conflicting organizaton to provide some leadership and clear direction, adaptive capacity, with a long term sustainable goal in mind! Until that develops we are concentrating our efforts in a spiderweb effect only to peter out either direction we take. The commy boyz have that solidarity, the money to back it up and one primary path to achieve goals.

Good post and that's sure what many of us would like to see. Short-term goal - get the fish feedlots out of the ocean. Long-term - ensure that we have new governments that value the wild fishery. We need people that will remodel DFO, that are willing to legislate support for conservation and enhancement and for equitable allocation policy.

 

[Doug]

The Creel Survey and head recovery program are (at this time) the only way of trying to determine roughly where and when fish are being caught. Remember "AT THIS TIME". Any better suggestions??

More information will only provide solid data which will provide all of us the truth of what's going on in the system. Whatever the conclusion is, it will provide the much needed information to plead our case with DFO and the media, or for fishing to be shut down.

Tailspin made a good point about our fragmented structure and until we have a person or people willing to step up to the plate and defend our rights we will never succeed. Having Tom spearhead the challenge would be great but he needs support and that support must be from someone of sound mind, calm, cool, collected, great at negotiations and can keep his composure no matter (win or lose) which way a discussion goes.

But to have success we need the facts first about the issues at hand. Information and knowledge is power and we need both of these items to defend the stats being provided. Hopefully more data will prove our point and if it doesn't we better shut it down, wait a few years and then we can start pointing the finger at someone else.

At this time it appears to me that most of the info and all of the data (although it's not accurate) is in the hands of DFO. The data is the best DFO has at this time and presently inaccurate information is being used against zone 19/20 by a second party. If it was up to the biologist to make the decisions, I think they would look at the big picture and shut down the entire West Coast and not just target the most populated area and where the most media attention is.

 

[sundance]

We at esquimalt anglers have just installed an outside refrigated collector box mounted on the outside wall by door ,so its there 24/7 for any heads you wish to turn ,they can be held at your residence frozen ,bring them down ,we are there every day from 7am till 9.am or use the box ,drop by free coffee ,,also we do the trailer park at otter point ,with a head bucket ,we are this year helping cris bos with colquitz ck as it is a coho stream with numbers up to 300 big coho ,everey fall ,as our craigflower ck numbers are down to about 50 a year,used to be in the 100s also! Also trying to get a net pen going for ogden pt area if we can get all our ducks in place ,as we have a 100,000 nitinat fry we keep putting in esquimalt harbour ,with we feel very few results ,in the summer months ,when we had the net pens [2] in esquimalt harbour we had good returns ,but after 911 we were not allowed net pens again ,si we just keep dumping them off the first nations boat ramp ,we feel to no avail ,as we no net pens do work well as we can release bigger fry .we are releasing 30,000 craigflower ck clipped coho which goldstream hatchery is raising for us ,we will clip them and release in the thetis lk watershed in the fall,so as an angling group we are giving our all [gary esq anglers pres]

 

[Doug]

I appreciate and support all of the work that Esquimalt Angler do for our local fishery. Hopefully the freezer will help to increase the numbers of hatchery fish going back to DFO and will portray the real amount of hatchery fish being caught in zone 19/20.

After see Chris B interview on TV, I became a member of the Esquimalt Angler last year and not just to use the ramp to launch my boat but to support their cause. For the past year I've been hiking Craigflower creek every few days and have been helping Bruce Bevan as a Craigflower Creek Guardian. I can say that Bruce and the Esq. Anglers have put in 100s and 100s of hours trying to increase the salmon stocks returning to Craigflower creek and over the short time I've worked with Bruce I've learned allot and admire him and the Esquimalt Angler support in enhancing salmon stocks.

Keep up the good work.

 

[fish4all]

Anyone know how long it takes to get the results from the heads?

 

[Doug]

I usually get my total head count for all the fish my clients have submitted (fishing from Feb to Nov) around the end of the calendar year.
Guides can receive a guide ID number which is written on all the tags submitted by clients so then I have a good understanding of where the fish were raised, what year and when those schools of fish are traveling through our water.

 

[Last Chance]

I love it, I contributed log book data, no one can tell me where it went... Was at a meeting last spring, the fellow from DFO (Bald Guy) said they only had around 60 pages of data. My book had over 45 pages of data, so I wonder where the ones from Wolf, Banannas, Tailspin, and a lot of other guys I knew did it went..

Any idea what a pain in the butt they are? Or a pain in the butt it is bagging up and dropping off heads every day, especially since there is no place at my springtime marina to do so? Or in Renfrew, when I am dragging my butt, 15 pound bait cooler, rain gear, and a big bag of Renfrew heads up to the cooler, it actually gets in the way a lot. And I did it for three years, and the reward was "I'm sorry, we don't know what the hell we did with the data, we just put a picture of the province on a dart board, and threw darts at places we want to close"..

Anyone who was at that meeting with me will know what was said.. Complete waste of time. Needless to say, no one has approached me about a logbook, I guess the 50 pages I submitted last year did nothing. They can now go to their bosses, and say "look, instead of managing the straits of Juan De Fuca, we have enough guys giving us data that we don't really need to analyze, so now we can close it".

Funny enough, I did get the sheet of paper saying where all of my headers were from, and one was the Fraser, but at the meeting, when they said the total number of pages from area 19 and 20 was 60, that's when I realized that one of two things was happening:

1) They don't have a clue. Plausible, but unlikeley

2) It's easier to close a fishery then to manage it, and find out what is wrong..

They took the entire commercial salmon fleet off the water in the 1990's. So that took our catch rate down from around 500,000 pieces a year, to south of 100,000 . So if an %80 reduction in the total catch has done nothing, hmmm, let's see. What else could it be?

When asked at the SFAB, if they monitored fish leaving the Fraser, they said "NO". I wonder how the exploding merganser population in the lower Fraser may affect young fish heading out to sea? They are stunned when they hit the brackish water, they would be an easy target? All they know is fish go to the spwaning grounds, and that is it.

 

[Last Chance]

I have to say that most of the DFO people on the ground are commited to the job. It's the damn guys back East that cause the grief.

 

[Doug]

Here is my take on the Log Book. It's not for me.

See my last year correspondence with DFO below:

I also continual hear people complaining about the log book program. Did anyone write to them and get a written response??

I find dealing with anyone from DFO, Rev Can Tax, Government, private sector........ you have to write and document thing and plead your case. I continual hear " They never contacted me, I never got anything back, he said, she said, they lied to me. If thing are in written form you have hard core documents and facts that can be escalated if need be and answer obtained. If you have a problem hears say is not what you want to defend yourself with.

The data DFO needs has to be accurate and it isn't at this time. It's the same thing as we need in zone 19/20 accurate data so we can plead our case.



From: Pearce, Robyn [mailto:Robyn.Pearce@dfo-mpo.gc.ca]

Dear D&D,

We appreciate your comments on the Survey of Recreational Fishing in Canada. These are valid points and we recognize that there are disadvantages of a general post season survey.

The purpose of the survey is to obtain information on the importance of recreational fisheries in Canada. Some of the information is not gathered through other means, such as information on fishing related expenditures and awareness of DFO fisheries management programs. Recreational catch information for each Pacific Fisheries Management Area is gathered from creel surveys and other monitoring programs throughout the fishing season. This in- season information is used for the management of recreational fishing. The broad regions used in the survey are intended to provide an approximate location of fishing activity. The region borders were selected 30 years ago and have been retained to enable comparisons over time.

We hope that you continue to participate in recreational fishing in BC tidal waters!
Regards,

Robyn Pearce


Dear DFO

While I support and understand the importance for these surveys, if they are onerous and complicated to complete I have two words:
NOT HAPPENING.

Your 2010 Survey is impossible for me to complete because:

1) The Regions in your survey in no way match your Recreational Management areas. Specifically: In the survey the Sooke area is right on the border of Region 5 and 6. It has no relation to your Management area 20. Since we fish from Port Renfrew through to the Gulf Islands but primarily Sooke what would we record - Region 6 or Region 5?

2) If you give me a some method for recording this information throughout the season I would be happy to complete the survey. Asking for this type of detail after 365 days of possible fishing will be guess work - except for what's recorded on our licenses.

3) I don't mind answering Yes to the fact that I am aware of the salmon head recovery program. But the specifics? Don't remember.

In Conclusion,
We are happy to assist if what you are asking of us is sensible and easy. Your department is starved for funding. Recreational fishing enthusiasts are starved for time.

Best regards,

 

[Theb55]

It won't be long before DFO uses logbook information to come up with surcharges for guides. IMHO logbooks will have much less to do with managing stocks and more to do with managing guides.

 

[Tailspin]

Ya they already got us there, or the legit guys with a C# anyway.Marine Navigation Servies fee or MNSF backdated to 2010. Paid to DFO for all the navaids we use, hahaha!

 

[wolf]

THE worst part of all of this is they snookered us in and pleaded with us(guides) that help us turn in data and we will get you involved with the process and talk with you to keep it open .... guess what NO talks I put my data in and helped and this is how they repay us in sooke GEEEE thanks alot and they still want us to help..... hhhmmmm ok lets think about this i help you ....you **** on me right on where do i sign up!!!!!! maybe get a hold of lisa or owen and ask them to getYOU involved with the log book program as sport fisherman and if you want to DO IT and then YOU make your call as to how it is....

Then come back and tell us all on the forum in 2 years how u liked it.... if you want to make a difference as a sportfishing community I suggest you try it.

good luck wolf

 

[Jiggit]

More likely, with all the cuts to the Fed govt they will let go of anyone who disagrees with there mandate to put more money into aquaculture. But I digress, I will continue to cooperate with the survey. I believe any data will help to validate our catch in comparison to the commercial catch. As it stands the commercial fleet, I have a buddy who works as an at sea observer and has been for over 15 years and he tells me they have almost 100% validation of their commercial catch and bycatch. More than I can say for our catch. I go out from cattle point and sidney and sometimes Jock's Dock all through the summer and I have only been surveyed twice in a year. How do they validate that out of more than 50 trips a year for a single boat. Need more observers or a different system. PS - out today and got squat, damn full moon, knew I should have stayed home. Observer said there were only 2 fish caught all day out at Jock's

 

[Rockfish]

More likely, with all the cuts to the Fed govt they will let go of anyone who disagrees with there mandate to put more money into aquaculture. But I digress, I will continue to cooperate with the survey. I believe any data will help to validate our catch in comparison to the commercial catch. As it stands the commercial fleet, I have a buddy who works as an at sea observer and has been for over 15 years and he tells me they have almost 100% validation of their commercial catch and bycatch. More than I can say for our catch. I go out from cattle point and sidney and sometimes Jock's Dock all through the summer and I have only been surveyed twice in a year. How do they validate that out of more than 50 trips a year for a single boat. Need more observers or a different system. PS - out today and got squat, damn full moon, knew I should have stayed home. Observer said there were only 2 fish caught all day out at Jock's

Your first post and some comments about how wonderful the commercial monitoring system is followed by a denigration of the sport monitoring system. We heard this lot from commie lobbyist concerning Halibut when they were fighting to maintain their grossly unfair share of resource allocation.

You only got checked 2 times out of 50 fifty last year; you should buy lottery tickets. We have been out four times this year which is more than usual, and have already been checked twice.

With this being peak sport halibut season one of the Creel Survey guys assured me he is going back and forth between the Cattle Point and Esq. Anglers launches when I commented that he seems to be there every time we come in. In peak salmon season out of Sunny Shores in Sooke I am surprised when you come in and don’t get checked; the Creel Survey guys practically live there.

When DFO does their flyovers and calculate numbers based on the survey data, if anything they over estimate the sport catch numbers.

The sport catch monitoring system is acceptable to DFO and the International Committees which monitors Canada’s total available catch (TAC). They accepts the validity of that system and let me assure you they would not if there was any question about it as it means less fish for the USA if we were under-reporting.

The question is as a sport fisherman why chose to attempt to discredit it on a public forum since doing so hurts our interests and for that matter the interests of Canada and even commercial fishermen, although some don’t seem to realize that?

It does make propaganda points for some commie lobbyists however who think if they can discredit the sport catch monitoring system they can somehow justify continuing to receive unfair levels of resource allocation at our expense.

As sport fishermen we are our own worst enemies and I have done it myself too often and am trying to learn from those mistakes.

 

[Foxsea]

Your first post and some comments about how wonderful the commercial monitoring system is followed by a denigration of the sport monitoring system. We heard this lot from commie lobbyist concerning Halibut when they were fighting to maintain their grossly unfair share of resource allocation.

The question is as a sport fisherman why chose to attempt to discredit it on a public forum since doing so hurts our interests and for that matter the interests of Canada and even commercial fishermen, although some don’t seem to realize that?

It does make propaganda points for some commie lobbyists however who think if they can discredit the sport catch monitoring system they can somehow justify continuing to receive unfair levels of resource allocation at our expense.

X2! Well said, Rocky! Have the commies hired Warkentin, too?

 

[casper5280]

I been out 10 times this year and have never been checked. I do help them when they ask, but just haven't seen them this year.