Creel survey

[Theb55]

What's everyone's thoughts.

Should we or shouldn't we cooperate with those doing creel surveys?

There are times I think this is good information but, more often than not, it comes back to bite us. A little information in the hands of the wrong people makes them incredibly dangerous.

What's the general consensus?

 

[lorneparker1]

Well by not doing them, we are providing less data. one of our biggest hurdles is our lack of accountability. This does not help that. However, I'm sick of doing anything not mandatory by the dfo.. so I'm torn, but right now my vote goes to supportingthem.

 

[reelfast]

when i get the 'random' phone call, i always report that i have caught NOTHING............................

 

[FishNmemories]

Well, I have participated in these surveys for years and the information helps both the rec sectors and DFO. The Rec sectors validates what is or not being caught and in turn that helps our reps in SFAB with their dealings with DFO.

Bottom-line is no data and DFO managers will error on the side of caution, that is conservation of the stocks and limit fishing opportunities.

 

[Dave S]

Always cooperate with the creel surveys.

 

[Enniberg]

I don't think we have anything to gain by not cooperating. I always do.

 

[gearjammer]

I agree we need to cooperate

 

[wolf]

Be different if that data went to SFAB not DFO as they cant make an educated decision hhmmm lets see 38 %of ETF goes to natives and they say juan de fuca 8 % but he lets take out 100% for march to june 15 then after this date maybe longer now(have they done that to fn) NO , Do you really think what we save only to be gobbled up in FN nets is going to make any difference OH right makes a difference to the natives getting more fish.

Me personally WILL NEVER give them any info as its used against us thats as come VERY CLEAR!!!!!

 

[Foxsea]

Be different if that data went to SFAB not DFO as they cant make an educated decision hhmmm lets see 38 %of ETF goes to natives and they say juan de fuca 8 % but he lets take out 100% for march to june 15 then after this date maybe longer now(have they done that to fn) NO , Do you really think what we save only to be gobbled up in FN nets is going to make any difference OH right makes a difference to the natives getting more fish. Me personally WILL NEVER give them any info as its used against us thats as come VERY CLEAR!!!!!

X3 - as usual, right on Wolf!
New World Order, people: These basturds will lie and deny to the end. There is one DFO agenda now - protect global trade in aquacultural products - screw us and wild fish. There are no more wild salmon to allocate because of salmon feedlots killing them in the millions! (well described in Alex Morton's talk last evening) We are fighting over the last of them. All the survey information you provide to DFO for free will be twisted, massaged or witheld as necessary, to serve the Norwegian corporations in trashing our ocean for profit.

Don't get sucked in - resist DFO at every opportunity! We should be Freedom Fighters for salmon - the Harper version of terrorists. Get salmon feedlots out - job 1! Give wild stocks a fighting chance to recover. Then we'll have something to talk about.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

I would be happy to participate, if they were there for us to report to. In going on three years now being back on the water, our boat has been surveyed once, it was our first trip out of French Creek, it was our sea trial on the boat, and we didn't have single rod in the boat. So in somewhere over 40 trips now we have only been surveyed once. Two trips were out of French Creek, the rest were WCVI from Port or Ucluelet.

My concerns for this type of "sample" survey is that it is not nearly accurate enough to collect critcal data numbers to manage a resource that is so susseptible to the pressures that we (humans), and nature place upon it. It is almost the same accuracy as reaching into a jar of mixed jelly beans (with eyes closed of course) and pulling out three red beans, and one black bean, and then making the estimated calculation that the rest of the jar must have a 75% volume of Red and a 25% volume of Black Beans.....

 

[wolf]

FINALLY someone whos sees whats really happening think about it guys we give them info and hhhhhmmm we get shut down its a double edged sword on one hand they PREACH sustaining jobs for the future!!! when timbuckfuknowhere???this will bury BC further in and wheres our political government??? simple they dont give a flying fu^& so whats next???? its slippery slope. They want to protcete this at any cost but yet they want to wipe out a known coho run with the dam in sooke which side are they really on?????
Worst part is they are using dat for all this that over % years old??? WTF as Tom davis said in that meeting if i used 5 year old data to run my business he be out of it????
So how is a salmon supposed to get past native nets that go from one back to another??????? OH I know dont let em net it??? what a concept!!!!!

YEP COMMON SENSE IS A SUPER POWER!!!!!!

 

[scott craven]

We cooperate, although i'm not so sure the data is used scientifically.
Without the numbers there is nothing to indicate what we take ?
Although DFO do not make the best decisions, without the creel
data they would be acting on no information.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

We cooperate, although i'm not so sure the data is used scientifically.
Without the numbers there is nothing to indicate what we take ?
Although DFO do not make the best decisions, without the creel
data they would be acting on no information.

Yep, although it is up to debate that they could actually make worse decisions at times with no data at all. All the data in world doesn't mean SFA if common sense is not applied to it. This void that we are in currently isn't going to get any smaller with the mismanagement practices that are being employed today and the cuts within DFO will not likely make things better either,,, then again if the cuts mean that they have to let some driftwood in the department go, then perhaps that may mean getting rid of some of the bad seeds there,,, who knows.

 

[Doug]

I agree, we need cooperation and the lack of info is killing us.

I know for a fact that the lack of info being provided is being used against zone 19/20 and I will explain on my next post.

You have to remember that the people reviewing the information supplied to the creel surveyors are biologist and not fisherman. Yes they work for DFO but they are scientist and don't care if there is fishing or not and all they care about is their research and it's accuracies. They collect data and base their research on actual and the best information provided they supply their reports.

One of my charter client is a fish biologist researcher (Rickard Beamish) and I can tell you that he retired a few years ago but even after retirement he continued to go to work (no pay) and do more research. He has told me numerous times that your research is only as good as the information provided.....

Example:
Say we go to the extreme and say there is no information provided to the creel survey, so the biologist review the info provided assume no fish are being caught so guess what they do next? Or say only 50% of the people provide information so the biologist review the info and assume fish stock are not doing so well and are down because they are missing 50% of the un submitted info so the info is not accurate. All the information from the biologist is then supplied to a group who then make the decision based on best actual facts (that all hasn't been provided) information provided. I know I'd shut it down if the info provide to me pointed to no fish are being caught.

Everyone has to remember that the assumptions being made are based on the best information provide and not providing the much needed info to make the best assumption is not acceptable. In my opinion the lack of info has created the problem we have in zone 19/20 and I think I know why.

Until someone comes up with a better way of collecting the much need information to determine what is being caught where and when this is the best method we have.

 

[Chaos]

I told them I was FN they turned around and walked away , end of conversation , I guess they aren't interested in what you catch if you are FN

 

[Optimist]

So what your saying Doug is that the reason we have these closures is because they dont have enough info,to make the right decisions,its going to be tough to give any info at all if you and everyone else can't fish peroid!! Do you really think that thats going to change there data,they have made there decisions long before the data is collected ,the albion test fishery is there best guess on whats returning ,that fishery is a shame ,its a kill gillnet fishery in which one boat fishes hoping to catch 30,000 chinook is tyhe fraser in which he can turn around and sell ,if he cant catch that much fish in the allowable time then morer closures are given to area 19/20 because the fish arent there,this same fishery was being conducted on the west coast out of port renfrew for sockeye until the fns decided to put a stop on this and ordered a court injuction to make them release all but a few for sampling this ironically happened just before the great return we had a few years ago,my question is if these stocks are of such concern why couldnt they conduct the albion test fishery the same in the river ,perhaps we need to look into whos boat or what group is doing thios fishery,,food for thought.

 

[Peahead]

Well, I have participated in these surveys for years and the information helps both the rec sectors and DFO. The Rec sectors validates what is or not being caught and in turn that helps our reps in SFAB with their dealings with DFO.

Bottom-line is no data and DFO managers will error on the side of caution, that is conservation of the stocks and limit fishing opportunities.

BANG ON *** " Bottom-line is no data and DFO managers will error on the side of caution, that is conservation of the stocks and limit fishing opportunities."

--Providing No information will impact sporties negatively for sure as FishNemories has explained above .... catch stats information would help to keep an area open if those stats showed a 'stock of concern' was not present in a particular area at a particular time. Agreed however that that that information could also serve to close a fishery due to a stock of concern being found to inhabit that area. As for most of us, I have no problem with the protection of stocks so if catch stats proved it necessary to close an area then by all means protect it - protect the stock of concern from ALL sectors though, including FN.
I think closing an area just because there is no information provided on the area would be a shame - and all those who don't provide info to creel survey staff, would really be part of the problem.

 

[Peahead]

X3 - as usual, right on Wolf!
New World Order, people: These basturds will lie and deny to the end. There is one DFO agenda now - protect global trade in aquacultural products - screw us and wild fish. There are no more wild salmon to allocate because of salmon feedlots killing them in the millions! (well described in Alex Morton's talk last evening) We are fighting over the last of them. All the survey information you provide to DFO for free will be twisted, massaged or witheld as necessary, to serve the Norwegian corporations in trashing our ocean for profit.

Don't get sucked in - resist DFO at every opportunity! We should be Freedom Fighters for salmon - the Harper version of terrorists. Get salmon feedlots out - job 1! Give wild stocks a fighting chance to recover. Then we'll have something to talk about.

Actually I beleive we are sucked in if we don't provide info . If we don't provide info I think it will make DFO's job easier to just close everything. What 'leg' would we have to stand on if they just decided to competely shut down the whole coast ? - at least with stats/ info you have something to prove your argument. If DFO 's agenda is truly to screw us all as you say, then really it won't make one iota of difference if we provide them with info or not - we are done no matter, if that is the case , plain and simple.

 

[Foxsea]

Actually I beleive we are sucked in if we don't provide info . If we don't provide info I think it will make DFO's job easier to just close everything. What 'leg' would we have to stand on if they just decided to competely shut down the whole coast ? - at least with stats/ info you have something to prove your argument. If DFO 's agenda is truly to screw us all as you say, then really it won't make one iota of difference if we provide them with info or not - we are done no matter, if that is the case , plain and simple.

Good points being made! Also, as Rockfish has said elsewhere, no info means the feedlots, commies and FN's can fabricate whatever sport numbers they like to help DFO decide policy and allocation. Man - damned if ya do and damned if ya don't! Fishin's a lot more complicated these days - not just place, depth, speed and what colour of hoochy do I use, anymore.

 

[wstcoaster]

survey data collected is used by biologists to assess fish stocks biologists are our friends our enemys are beuracrats in ottawa making political decisions on little common sense