Conservation Measures for Northern and Southern BC Chinook Salmon and Southern Resident Killer Whale

[calmsea]

So the issue of Aboriginal, First Nation fisheries comes up once again. And Agian. And Again. And Again. And Again. Some people just cant' get past this issue. My opinion is that it is because there is a jealous and racist attitude towards their fishery, these people get to fish while others do not. People need to get past this mental hurdle.

Whoever wants to blame Aboriginal Fishing for the decline in Salmon stocks is just ignorant. Aboriginal Fishing is NOT the issue here. In the seal thread, I posted a lecture given showing that an estimated 250-400K smolts are being eaten by seals in the Cowichan River estuary alone. What's a bigger impact there? That the Cowichan band harvests fish like they have for 20'000 years, or the seals? Well, it must be the indians. Log booms have blocked out sunlight and deposited acidic bark in the eel grass beds, wiping them out. This has eliminated the habitat for juvenile salmon. But those damned indians are still netting fish. Sea Otters have been hunted to near extinction. Which has caused an explosion of Sea Urchins. Sea Urchins eat kelp. The kelp forests are all but gone. There's no habitat for maturing ocean salmon. But again, It must be those filthy welfare collecting red skinned bastards. Open water fish farms have created huge infestations of sea lice on migrating salmon. But oh man, can you believe that DFO is letting the Sto:Lo net fish?

The racist and jealous attitude towards aboriginal fishing has got to stop. However many fish they catch is not the problem here.



Yes, the BLACK MARKET for salmon is something that needs to be addressed. Everyone knows about it, but nobody wants to talk about it. The easiest way to hit it? Go after the people BUYING black market salmon. Shame them publicly. #NOPOACHEDSALMON. Call out your friends, family, neigbours, co-workers or whoever else is buying this ill gotten fish.

I used to get so mad when I'd see Aboriginal fishing on the Fraser. I thought it was unfair, and thought who the hell were they to do this, and don't they care about the fish, and every emotional thought you experience about it. Then I started reading and learning. First about aboriginal people's history in BC, and pre and post European contact. Then about the legal cases. Then I actually got to spend some time with some Aboriginal guys while doing Salmonid enhancement work in several river systems. I realized how wrong I was. My opinion changed, and I will confess that I previously had a very racist attitude towards these people. I have completely changed my perspective.

Aboriginal fishing, is not the cause for the decline in salmon stocks in the Salish Sea. These people are very much concerned about the preservation of these stocks, more so than sport anglers. Salmon are these people's identity and their culture. The racist attitudes towards Aboriginal Fishing has got to end.

Nice little sob story. Do you think there's anyone who actually believes you? Nice try buddy.

 

[Stizzla]

@Che
You seem very smart and well read about many of the topics on these forums. But then you blow it all when you make rediculous comments such as calling us racist, for not wanting a group of people to do something that is causing a major problem to something we have interest in. You seem to be quick to group people together in a negative way too such as guides (tax frauds) people who smoke marijuana and even people who bargain hunt. Please keep posting great videos, and using your brain for good, not for hating on many of us.
Ps. I speak up about gillnetting as much as anyone and my best man (at my interracial wedding) carries a status card. PLEASE STOP CALLING ME RACIST

 

[california]

Aboriginal fishing, is not the cause for the decline in salmon stocks in the Salish Sea. These people are very much concerned about the preservation of these stocks, more so than sport anglers. Salmon are these people's identity and their culture. The racist attitudes towards Aboriginal Fishing has got to end.

It is true aboriginal fishing is not the reason for the decline of chinook stocks. They have traditionally taken 10% or less of the chinook take, sport fisherman are now the biggest user. The FN alllocations are not a threat to the species, but the Poaching is, and trying to catch the buyers is next to impossible. The poaching is going on in defined areas and could be prevented with adequate enforcement. It is the federal governments policy choice not to make that investment. Its worth mentioning seals are no more at fault than FN. They have been around as long (longer) than FN people. Its only in the last 150 years have marine species been wiped out on the west coast by Europeans, but prior to that aboriginal humans did wipe out several terrestrial species in north america (we don't see too many mammoths or ground sloths today)) so they are not immune to driving species to extinction either, something worth noting when discussing enforcement issues in that community. I don't believe discussing those concerns is inherently racist for most people on this forum.

Irrespective of the poaching and what people think of FN or their fishery it's here to stay. I don't communicate this because I like or agree with it, but its what the highest courts in the land have decided. FN have the first priority for salmon resources. For food and ceremonial use, and now for commercial use. Thats been decided, its not up for debate any longer. For any particular run of salmon, or river of origin the future is if we as sport fisherman have access to them so do the FN. By definition of the court decisions, we come behind them in the allocations, so if fraser fish are open to us as sport fishermen, by definition there must be enough for native F&C and very soon for FN commercial. The future is if there are conservation concerns, as will surely get worse with the early fraser Chinook, any non native commercial fishery will be the first to be shut down, and for the most part we are already there as the Non native commercial chinook fishery is on its death bed. It will not be long before more dire conservation concerns will force closure of Sport fishing in more (maybe all areas) for periods of time while FN harvest will continue for the dwindling allowable catch. The writing is on the wall for this. The only hope is of course sustainable turnarounds in chinook populations that can provide fish for all user groups. This means a long term rehabilitation of wild chinook salmon which is a difficult (maybe impossible) task, and not just the band-aids of hatcheries and Net pens.

 

[oldtimer]

I think that the only way out of this fisheries management mess, that the DFO and the Federal Politicians have created, is to have our Provincial Government take over the management of our fisheries from the Feds. Our fishery is now on life support and is going down for the count if we don't figure a way out of this crisis sooner rather than later. Thousands of businesses are going to be affected by these recent DFO decisions and our Tourism Industry will take an enormous hit if this mission by the DFO to shut down our industry is successful. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

[california]

We should trust the province with salmon based on its stellar record with steelhead?

 

[Che]

calling us racist, for not wanting a group of people to do something that is causing a major problem to something we have interest in.

No, it's racism and it's got to stop. Aboriginal groups are just as concerned if not more about salmon stocks and survival. If your entire culture and identity relied on it, you would be too. I'm not some social justice warrior who thinks that the evil white man is responsible for all the blights of the aboriginal people. There are a lot of groups that are being shut out from fishing, then they see Aboriginal fishing and get jealous. I'm telling you that its the wrong tree.

Aboriginal groups are not our enemy, adversary or rival. They're a key ally. Cooperation and collaboration with them is the way to go. Aboriginal Groups have access to a near endless source of money from the federal government for all kinds of projects. There's a particularly sweet spot for youth employment projects. Some of those projects can help salmon. Knowing that, why would someone not partner with them? We had an Aboriginal woman from Alert Bay heckling the Premier the other day about salmon farms, got lots of media attention. We all know Salmon Farming can affect wild salmon stocks. So why not partner with them?

Look at how many Aboriginal groups have been partnered by these envirobullies and have taken their anti-pipeline stance. They've been completely bamboozled by them, and are missing out on huge economic opportunity. Those groups who do oppose the pipeline are in conflict with those groups that stand to make a lot of money from it. This is what happens when aboriginal groups are partnered with, versus being opposed.

(we don't see too many mammoths or ground sloths today))

That's a raspberry if I've ever seen one. Both these species died off in the climate change post Ice Age.

I think that the only way out of this fisheries management mess, that the DFO and the Federal Politicians have created, is to have our Provincial Government take over the management of our fisheries from the Feds.

This would take a constitutional amendment, so it's not going to happen.

 

[Floater]

They sure aren’t acting like an ally.

Policing their own would go a long way for me to believe they care about the resource.

And if you are going to self describe yourself as a variant of the population based on your race, then you can’t shout “racism” when that same group is referred to by the rest of the citizens they wish to be separated from.

As soon as someone flippantly uses that term to drive their point home, I know damn well they don’t have a valid point.

 

[The Jackel]

Che go bang your drum and have a little smudge at the same time, your **** is tiresome

 

[calmsea]

No, it's racism and it's got to stop. Aboriginal groups are just as concerned if not more about salmon stocks and survival. If your entire culture and identity relied on it, you would be too. I'm not some social justice warrior who thinks that the evil white man is responsible for all the blights of the aboriginal people. There are a lot of groups that are being shut out from fishing, then they see Aboriginal fishing and get jealous. I'm telling you that its the wrong tree.

Aboriginal groups are not our enemy, adversary or rival. They're a key ally. Cooperation and collaboration with them is the way to go. Aboriginal Groups have access to a near endless source of money from the federal government for all kinds of projects. There's a particularly sweet spot for youth employment projects. Some of those projects can help salmon. Knowing that, why would someone not partner with them? We had an Aboriginal woman from Alert Bay heckling the Premier the other day about salmon farms, got lots of media attention. We all know Salmon Farming can affect wild salmon stocks. So why not partner with them?

Look at how many Aboriginal groups have been partnered by these envirobullies and have taken their anti-pipeline stance. They've been completely bamboozled by them, and are missing out on huge economic opportunity. Those groups who do oppose the pipeline are in conflict with those groups that stand to make a lot of money from it. This is what happens when aboriginal groups are partnered with, versus being opposed.




That's a raspberry if I've ever seen one. Both these species died off in the climate change post Ice Age.



This would take a constitutional amendment, so it's not going to happen.

I'd pick the upper Fraser bands as an ally to shut down the frigging poaching in the lower Fraser. Does that make the Nicola band racists too? You are a smart cookie, really!

 

[Che]

They sure aren’t acting like an ally.

This is the disconnect. Aboriginal groups don't NEED the sport fishing community's support, permission or approval to do what they do. They have the full mandate. Butting heads with them, when we all want the same thing, is just not a good approach.

Aboriginal groups have come a long way and are on an upward path. Look at Vancouver Mayor candidate Ian Campbell. Is he the old stereotype or the new archetype? How about a guy like Clarence Louie? Have you listened his TEDx talk on YouTube?

The children and grand children of the residential schools and sixties scoop are coming in to lead these groups. These new leaders are educated and have the vision to build their own people's future. Those who hold on to the old ways and ideas are going to be left behind.

This thread has no sufficiently been side tracked by the "Inconvenient Indians."

#FEEDTHEWHALES #HELPTHEKELP #SEALSKILLSALMON

 

[Floater]

Buddy, no one that I’ve seen here is being demeaning to FN people.

You don’t have to educate anyone here of the plight of Indigenous communities.

I’ve never met anyone who would genuinely like to see FN people held back and denied opportunity for success.

Quit the virtue signaling because it almost seems to me that you sir, are taking the stance that these people can’t make it on their own without white guys like yourself “helping” them. That’s the only racism I see in this thread, it’s soft bigotry, but it is bigotry nonetheless.

Many here see a crisis in Salmon and being politically correct with fishing rights won’t solve anything.

 

[The Jackel]

Well back on topic, no whales yet seen in Jordan River, i have been watching a nice little zodiac fishing for the last 3 days, must be nice having the place all to themselves.

 

[Whitebuck]

Che...you are more out to lunch than our PM.
You obviously have ZERO interaction with the lower Fraser bands.

 

[oldtimer]

We have employed over a dozen FN guides and staff in our business for the past 28 years so there are a few FN that are involved in the Sports fishing business. Che not sure where your head is at or where you hang your hat but you have managed to side track this thread and I find your rants to be very distracting and non productive. How many FN have you employed in your business?

 

[Gear'n'beer!]

Well back on topic, no whales yet seen in Jordan River, i have been watching a nice little zodiac fishing for the last 3 days, must be nice having the place all to themselves.

HUGE group headed west from sherringham yesterday, I personally have never seen a group that large. We literally watched them go by for over half an hour.....of course harrassed by the usual dozen whale watchers. 200 metres.....nope. Engines off.....nope. Leap frogging......yup. Just cruising along with whatever group they were attached to

 

[The Jackel]

View attachment 38392

HUGE group headed west from sherringham yesterday, I personally have never seen a group that large. We literally watched them go by for over half an hour.....of course harrassed by the usual dozen whale watchers. 200 metres.....nope. Engines off.....nope. Leap frogging......yup. Just cruising along with whatever group they were attached to

Well they must have done a 180 because they never made it to Jordan River and neither did the chaser boats, take videos or pics of the fleet harassing the whales we need more proof to get them out of the study area

 

[searun]

Wow that was a major side track. While I agree with many of Che’s thoughts that FNs are a potential strong ally and are not the “problem”, I also have concerns that unless there is a strong central conservation control mechanism that any fishery has risk of uncontrollable over fishing.

Back to the whales....pretty distressing to hear the fleet of whale watchers are still practicing their bad habits. Time for DFO to get out on the water and start writing tickets.

The proposed 200 m spatial exclusion zone isn’t enough. These guys just can’t help themselves. They can’t even respect the current 100m zone, what makes us think they will respect 200m. At least a 400m zone makes it pretty safe that if they cheat on the bubble zone boundaries there is some wiggle room that offers protection.

I can’t believe these guys aren’t able to help themselves when they should know there is a lot of public scrutiny. Guess we have to ask more people on the water to keep reporting their observations of whale watchers not abiding by the current 100m zone. Perhaps that will shame DFO into taking action.

 

[wildmanyeah]

The american WW seem to be keeping to themselves... Canada once again however seems like the wild west

Boat-free zone to protect orcas expands near San Juan Island
https://www.king5.com/article/tech/...as-expands-near-san-juan-island/281-559261627

"But the zone has its critics. The rule is a source of ire among fishermen, especially charter businesses that depend on the summer season for income that often helps them make it through the rest of the year. Some say they're an easy target for government action that will do nothing significant to help the whales."

The orcas we know and love are finally back – will they stay all summer?
https://blog.seattlepi.com/candacew...e-are-finally-back-will-they-stay-all-summer/

"Where are the hordes of boats? Even when more boats accompanied these whales later there was little to no detectable underwater engine noise reported on hydrophones. The Pacific Whale Watch Association has self-imposed voluntary reductions in speed and distance from the whales and spend more time with the other local orcas – the Transients, which are dynamic and interesting orcas in their own light."

 

[Che]

Whale watchers are not the target?

Whale watchers are another easy ally to make. They take out hundreds of tourists a year to experience this emotional connection with the majestic orca... How easy is it to tell them "Hey, these orca's need salmon to eat. Wanna kick in a couple bucks to the kitty and help us clean up an estuary or install some large woody debris structures?" That's an easy cow to milk.

#FEEDTHETHEWHALES

 

[SpringVelocity]

Whale watchers are not the target?

Whale watchers are another easy ally to make. They take out hundreds of tourists a year to experience this emotional connection with the majestic orca... How easy is it to tell them "Hey, these orca's need salmon to eat. Wanna kick in a couple bucks to the kitty and help us clean up an estuary or install some large woody debris structures?" That's an easy cow to milk.

#FEEDTHETHEWHALES

Yes they are a great ally. Look at the Juan de fuca straight. Oops I am not allowed to say that.