Climate: LNG in B.C. vs Alberta tarsands

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MIT CLIMATE SCIENTIST: GLOBAL WARMING BELIEVERS A ‘CULT’

global_warming
An MIT professor of meteorology is dismissing global-warming alarmists as a discredited “cult” whose members are becoming more hysterical as emerging evidence continues to contradict their beliefs.

During an appearance on this writer’s radio show Monday, MIT Professor emeritus Richard Lindzen discussed the religious nature of the movement.

“As with any cult, once the mythology of the cult begins falling apart, instead of saying, oh, we were wrong, they get more and more fanatical. I think that’s what’s happening here. Think about it,” he said. “You’ve led an unpleasant life, you haven’t led a very virtuous life, but now you’re told, you get absolution if you watch your carbon footprint. It’s salvation!”

Lindzen, 74, has issued calm dismissals of warmist apocalypse, reducing his critics to sputtering rage.

Last week, government agencies including NASA announced that 2014 was the “hottest year” in “recorded history,” as The New York Times put it in an early edition. Last year has since been demoted by the Times to the hottest “since record-keeping began in 1880.”

But that may not be true. Now the same agencies have acknowledged that there’s only a 38 percent chance that 2014 was the hottest year on record. And even if it was, it was only by two-100ths of a degree.

Lindzen scoffs at the public-sector-generated hysteria, which included one warmist blogger breathlessly writing that the heat record had been “shattered.”

“Seventy percent of the earth is oceans, we can’t measure those temperatures very well. They can be off a half a degree, a quarter of a degree. Even two-10ths of a degree of change would be tiny but two-100ths is ludicrous. Anyone who starts crowing about those numbers shows that they’re putting spin on nothing.”

Last week, after scoffing at Vermont socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders’ call for a Senate vote on global warming, Lindzen was subjected to another barrage of diatribes. At his listed MIT phone number, Prof. Lindzen received a typical anonymous call:

“I think people like you should actually be in jail,” the male caller told him, “because you must know where this is all leading now… the people you support and take your money from to make these outrageously anti-human comments (also ‘know’)… In other words, you’re a sociopath!”

Lindzen chuckled when the voicemail was replayed.

This writer asked him if, as has been alleged in some of the warmist blogs, he is taking money from the energy industry.

“Oh, it would be great!” he said with a laugh. “You have all these people, the Gores and so on, making hundreds of millions of dollars on this, Exxon Mobil giving $100 million to Stanford for people who are working on promoting this hysteria. The notion that the fossil-fuel industry cares – they don’t. As long as they can pass the costs on to you, it’s a new profit center.”

Lindzen said he was fortunate to have gained tenure just as the “climate change” movement was beginning, because now non-believers are often ostracized in academia. In his career he has watched the hysteria of the 1970’s over “global cooling” morph into “global warming.”

“They use climate to push an agenda. But what do you have left when global warming falls apart? Global normalcy? We have to do something about ‘normalcy?’”

As for CO2, Lindzen said that until recently, periods of greater warmth were referred to as “climate optimum.” Optimum is derived from a Latin word meaning “best.”

“Nobody ever questioned that those were the good periods. All of a sudden you were able to inculcate people with the notion that you have to be afraid of warmth.”

The warmists’ ultimate solution is to reduce the standard of living for most of mankind. That proposition is being resisted most vigorously by nations with developing economies such as China and India, both of which have refused to sign on to any restrictive, Obama-backed climate treaties. Lindzen understands their reluctance.

“Anything you do to impoverish people, and certainly all the planned policies will impoverish people, is actually costing lives. But the environmental movement has never cared about that.”
 
Missed this again i see.

What is wrong with your brain?
Both links explain the 38%, do I have to hand hold you through the science?
Can you not even read or understand the table?
Do you understand the concept of probability or did you not take math in school?
You expect the members here to value your ideas yet you have no understanding of what this 38% means.
Why in the world would anyone take you seriously if you can't understand a simple table.
Why don't you make an effort to learn what it means so you can have an intelligent comment.
Is that asking too much from you?
Too lazy to learn but just enough effort to play the court jester.....
 
Look a special group for you to join so you wont have to worry any more.

Hey thanks.... perhaps watch this video, I think you will know what group you belong to.
"The denialists are denying it's the warmest year. Which makes sense if you're in denial" LOL

[Qbn1rCZz1ow]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbn1rCZz1ow
 
This will surely put a bur under OBD saddle... LOL

Look your pause just disappeared in to thin air with the new 2014 temp record.
2014 is a bulls-eye on the trend line. So much for your "paws"
We all new it was BS but you bet the farm on it and it turns out you were wrong again.
Are you getting a little tired of being wrong all the time?
Perhaps you should rethink your hoax theory.
there-is-no-pause.gif

I hear your team is looking for a new starting point for a new "paws"
Some say you will have to go to 2009 now.
No global warming for 5 years..... LOL
Don't forget to update your silly sig
 
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150121135156.htm

Two lakes beneath the ice in Greenland, gone within weeks

Date: January 21, 2015

Source: Ohio State University

Summary: Researchers discovered craters left behind when two sub-glacial lakes in Greenland drained away -- an indication that the natural plumbing system beneath the ice sheet is overflowing with meltwater. One lake once held billions of gallons of water and emptied to form a mile-wide crater in just a few weeks. The other lake has filled and emptied twice in the last two years.
 
http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/cour...cle_ba75104c-78ee-5e9c-b914-15706cd0d8d7.html
Nearly 3M gallons of brine spill in N.D. oil boom’s largest leak
Zack Nelson
Crews dig up land Jan. 12 at a saltwater spill site near Blacktail Creek outside Williston, N.D.
Posted: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 9:37 pm
Associated Press

Nearly 3 million gallons of saltwater generated by oil drilling have leaked from a North Dakota pipeline, an official said Wednesday, the largest such spill since the state’s current oil boom began and nearly three times worse than previous record spills. Two creeks have been affected, but the full environmental effect might not be clear for months.
 
Just finished reading this whole thread. Never read read anything quite like it before. I'm not going to weigh In on either side but thought this article (copied from Castanets news service) might be of interest.

Doomsday clock closer to midnight
Photo: Contributed
The Canadian Press - Jan 22 9:59 am
WASHINGTON - The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists says Earth is now closer to human-caused doomsday than it has been in more than 30 years because of global warming and nuclear weaponry.
The U.S. advocacy group founded by the creators of the atomic bomb moved their famed "Doomsday Clock" ahead two minutes on Thursday. It said the world is now three minutes from a catastrophic midnight, instead of five minutes.
This is the second closest the world has been to midnight in the 68 years of the doomsday clock. The only closer time was two minutes till midnight in 1953 when the United States and the then-Soviet Union pursued the hydrogen bomb.
Group executive director Kennette Benedict called both climate change and modernization of nuclear weaponry undeniable threats to humanity's continued existence.
 
ummm...95% of the published science.....

OBD - If I spend a tiny bit of effort here - would you reciprocate like-wise - and not immediately jump to cut and paste whatever the "anti" of my view is here - and show a bit of respect and at least rationally consider what I am trying to say here - also respectfully? Think of it as a challenge to both of us.

1 - Science is never "perfect" - although it tries (or should, anyways) to - mostly through the venue of peer-review. Yes, some internet bloggers and news stories also are very trustworthy - but many - as you know - are not.

2 - Most people outside of those employed in the sciences - often do not have enough experience, familiarity, training and/or experience in the peer-review world to really understand what the peer-review process is, and how it works. Same can be said for a number also in the sciences.

3 - Most people in the sciences at least recognize that there is a difference between blogs, news, and published science. Some have even developed enough critical skills to critique, gauge, and "rate" the published work. The best way to do that - officially and scientifically - is to write back to that journal and submit a letter of comment. Sometimes that precipitates several scientific comments back and forth that are very enlightening and provide much depth and insight into anyone who wishes to immerse themselves in the debate. Generally, most thorough and "good" scientific papers generate less debate on an article-by-article basis. This would be the appropriate place for the climate blog deniers to publish their critiques. Not surprisingly - there have been very few if any scientific letters of comment that I have witnessed from the climate change deniers compared to the extent of the available peer-reviewed literature. There is of course a reason for that. Can you guess why?

4 - News and blogs do not work as above. News people are told there are always 2 sides to a story - and they normally give equal time to opposing views IRRESPECTIVE of any scientific consensus. That is if there is say 95% consensus that climate change is real, largely caused by human activities, and somewhat avoidable - we should have 95 scientists beating up on 1 industry hack on a talk show bench - but that seems to never happen. Again - can you guess why?

5 - Individual scientific papers are judged on a stand alone basis - but the field of science moves ahead by consensus. That is why we no longer believe the world is flat for example - or that the Earth is *NOT* the center of the solar system - although it is the center of our observable Universe - a very different reasoning. The courts similarly have what they call the weight of evidence when they reach decisions - and the weight of evidence in the scientific literature is that Climate Change exists - the predicted extremes are largely human-induced and potentially something we should take seriously.

6 - Whether or not human-induced Climate Change exists or not - our supply of hydrocarbons is limited - and we are burning through them. This is something that I have never seen the climate change deniers mention. Developing new technologies such as "green" energy based on renewable sources, along with the jobs-jobs-jobs mantra to extend our oil-based supplies should be welcomed by the business community. All of the business community - except for big oil, apparently. I don't see how any climate change denier could seriously argue against this - even you OBD.
I see you have posted a few posts since I asked these questions, OBD. Are you planning on responding to these points, or will you be ignoring them - hoping this discussion will go away?
 
... I'd be convinced that a dilbit pipeline fracture would have a larger volume of spill...
Well - I guess maybe it is...

From: http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/179.13 ..."tank cars, built after November 30, 1970, or any existing tank cars that are converted, may not exceed 34,500 gallons (130,597 L) capacity "...

From: https://docs.neb-one.gc.ca/ll-eng/l...Results_-_A4C8X9.pdf?nodeid=2526155&vernum=-2 ..." the Board notes that only 6 of the 104 MWCs identified by Enbridge to date appear to have valves installed within 1 km on both sides of the water crossing, while the majority appear to have valves installed more than 10 km from the water crossing on at least one side"...

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enbridge_Northern_Gateway_Pipelines ..."The crude oil pipeline would have a diameter of 36 inches (910 mm)"...

From: http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/cylinder.cgi?submit=Entry ...11 km of that pipeline holds 7,154,271 L or 54 rail car tankers worth.

So between shut-off valves on the proposed Enbridge pipeline - there is 54 rail tanker cars worth of dilbit - as well - there would be dely in shutting-off valves in both the detection of a leak - as well as the length of time it would take to engage the valves. To avoid heavy hydraulic hammering - I would expect there to be a slow shut down.

What is Enbridge's response to this?

From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...-pressure-on-line-9-pipeline/article21277294/ ..."Enbridge Inc. says it should not be required to install shut-off valves at every major water crossing of its Line 9 oil pipeline because it has a smarter way to minimize potential leaks from the line. "...

In any derailment - what is the likely number of damaged and leaking tanker cars? More than 54?

Well the Lac-Mégantic rail disaster - from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Mégantic_rail_disaster it was a 74-car freight train and the Transportation Safety Board said that of the 75 - 63 derailed due to high speeds: http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/recommandations-recommendations/rail/2014/rec-r1401-r1403.pdf and 5.98M L of petroleum crude oil were released - almost comparable to the calculated Enbridge amounts above. However, averaging the amounts released for 8 rail car accidents over the past 4 years of TSB records - the average is 284,206L or 25 times less than the higher Enbridge estimation.

SO - I would agree that the likelihood of an accident with the Enbridge pipeline proposal would be quite a bit less - esp. for the 1st 20-30 years or so of operations - the consequence of that potential release would be more severe than an average rail accident due to volume.

BUT - there has been quite a slew of the smaller rail car derailments in the past few years: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/ra...+five+year+high+with+chart/9772919/story.html

A total of 110 incidents in 2013 marked a five-year high, according to the Transportation Safety Board - using the average amount - that's like 4 potential Enbridge disasters in 2013. I'd say using this criteria - yes you are right Califbill and GLG - rail is worse when compared to a new pipeline.

However, it appears that the older pipelines leak frequently and in smaller amounts:

http://westcoastnativenews.com/harv...leaked-100000-litres-of-toxic-produced-water/
Harvest Operations Corp pipeline just leaked 100,000 Litres of Toxic produced water

http://westcoastnativenews.com/apac...er-25000-litres-from-a-pipeline-in-zama-city/
Apache Canada spills another 25,000 litres from a pipeline in Zama City

http://oilspillalberta.com/cnrl-spi...ced-toxic-water-near-red-earth-creek-alberta/
CNRL spills 29,000 Litres of Produced toxic water near Red Earth Creek Alberta

Total amounts released by older pipelines seem to be somewhat less than that released by ruptured rail tankers on average - but not necessarily insignificant, either.

New pipelines seem to be the least risk.
 

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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150123081723.htm

Arctic ice cap slides into the ocean

Date: January 23, 2015

Source: University of Leeds

Summary: Satellite images have revealed that a remote Arctic ice cap has thinned by more than 50 metres since 2012 – about one sixth of its original thickness – and that it is now flowing 25 times faster. The findings show that over the last two decades, ice loss from the south-east region of Austfonna, located in the Svalbard archipelago, has increased significantly. In this time, ice flow has accelerated to speeds of several kilometres per year, and ice thinning has spread more than 50km inland -- to within 10km of the summit.
 
<iframe width="767" height="431" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/x1SgmFa0r04" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
WATCH: How Carbon Dioxide Travels Around The Globe
 
<iframe width="854" height="510" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-cv8pp4HjCQ?list=UUNVJhdLLn3zkudE5VbAf-wg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
What Are the Challenges of Fracking Natural Shale Gas Reserves?
 
http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/greenhouse-gas-emissions-explained-in-7-balloons

In 2010 human activity caused 50 Gt CO2e of greenhouse gas emissions.

These emissions were 76% carbon dioxide (CO2), 16% methane (CH4), 8% nitrous oxide (N20) and 2% F-gases.

The big terrestrial emitters were China (23%), the USA (14%), Europe (10%), India (5%) and Russia (5%).

And the primary sources of emissions were energy (35%), industry (18%), transport (13%), agriculture (11%), forestry (11%), buildings (8%) and waste (4%).

The sources are explained in more detail in the balloons below, which technically shouldn’t float so well ;-). These balloons don’t look very threatening, but they represent the large majority of positive climate forcings.

Which in English means they are major causes of climate change.


Read more at http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/greenhouse-gas-emissions-explained-in-7-balloons#CYkeeeFivOm7SuMs.99
 

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Roy Spencer PhD.

How the Climate System Works (for Dummies)
January 23rd, 2015
climate-system-for-dummiesNo, I’m not talking about how the climate system has helped dummies make money off it.

I’m taking the occasion of continued pestering by our Aussie friend Doug Cotton, and questions I still get about his views, to go over the basics.

The atmosphere is complex enough that, from time-to-time, I try to explain the average operation of the climate system in as simple terms as I can muster. It’s actually quite difficult to simplify it.

I’m going to make some broad generalizations here, and my statements should be accurate to at least the 90% level. Maybe even 97% ;-) What follows is for the “global average” climate system.

The source of energy for the climate system is the sun, primarily in the form of visible sunlight.

About 30% of the sunlight which reaches the Earth is reflected back to space, and most of the rest is absorbed by the land surface and the upper 10 meters or so of the ocean.

The absorbed sunlight would cause the temperature of the land, ocean, and atmosphere to eventually increase without bound unless there were ways to lose the accumulated energy. The most important energy loss mechanism for the climate system as a whole is infrared (IR) radiation (yes, Doug, IR is also “electromagnetic radiation”, as is visible sunlight), which is how the Earth as a whole maintains energy balance and an approximate constant temperature: the total sunlight absorbed by the Earth equals the total IR energy emitted out to space by the Earth. Here “Earth” means the earth-atmosphere system.

Since the rate at which the Earth emits IR radiation goes up as the 4th power of the absolute temperature (measured in Kelvins), this provides the ultimate stabilizing mechanism for the temperature of the climate system. (There can be no “runaway greenhouse effect”. Even Venus has a stable temperature.) In crude terms, the sun warms the climate system up until it emits IR energy to space at the same rate it absorbs solar energy.

Anything that changes the balance between energy input and energy output of the Earth has the potential to change its temperature. This “energy-balance-determines-temperature” concept is basic physics, and is fundamental to the calculation of the temperature (or change in temperature) of anything, and is accounted for in the design of most energy-consuming devices humans have invented.

So, if clouds change, the temperature can change. Or, if the amount of IR-emitting and IR-absorbing gases in the atmosphere (primarily water vapor and CO2) change, the temperature can change. Anything that changes the rates of energy gain or energy loss can change global temperatures.

Now, a good portion of the solar energy that warms the surface causes convective air currents, which transport heat upward (not downward, as Doug claims), which then warms the troposphere. Evaporation of surface water is a major portion of this process: evaporated water at the surface absorbs the “latent heat of evaporation”, which is then released to the atmosphere when the water condenses into clouds and precipitation. This is what drives most clouds, all precipitation systems, thunderstorms, hurricanes, etc. They all convectively transfer heat from the surface to the atmosphere (not from the atmosphere to the surface)

Importantly, with this convective energy input into the atmosphere (and some direct sunlight absorption by the atmosphere), the atmosphere (specifically, the middle and upper troposphere) must have some way of losing this energy, or its temperature would also increase without bound. This cooling mechanism is accomplished by IR emission to outer space by those “greenhouse gases” in the atmosphere I mentioned earlier.

But those gases don’t just emit IR radiation upward to outer space, they also emit downward, reducing the net IR cooling rate of the lower atmosphere and surface. (Sideways emission and absorption are almost exactly the same locally, and are the same in the global average, so are ignored). The net result of all of this up- and down-welling IR radiation is that greenhouse gases make the upper atmosphere cooler, and the lower atmosphere warmer, than they would otherwise be without those greenhouse gases. This was first demonstrated by Manabe and Strickler 50 years ago (a nice summary of their model is here).

I have often used the analogy of a blanket over your warm body. A blanket keeps the warm side warmer, and the cool side cooler, than if the blanket was not there. Yes, I know, a blanket primarily works by conduction, but in terms of energy transfer in general, the concept of the atmosphere as a “radiative blanket” is the same. (Real radiative blankets really are used in the design of some instruments flying on satellites, to help keep them from getting too cold when they are not in the sunlight.)

Not to belabor the point, but this is really important, and some people are creating confusion with their misinformation. The rate of energy input alone does not determine the temperature of an object, (Doug). If you can insulate the object sufficiently, you can elevate its temperature arbitrarily high with relatively little energy input. All you have to do is prevent it from losing energy as fast. Temperature is determined by rates of energy gain and energy loss.

Due to greenhouse gases, the rate at which a layer of the atmosphere absorbs IR is relatively independent of its temperature; but the rate at which it loses IR is very dependent on temperature. Thus, layers of the atmosphere are, in general, not emitting IR at the same rate they are absorbing IR.

If not for the emission and absorption of thermal IR by different layers of the atmosphere, we would not have the IR temperature sounders on satellites that provide atmospheric temperature structure data on a global basis that have greatly improved daily weather forecasting. Nor would John Christy and I be able to monitor the temperature of different layers of the atmosphere due to the (extremely weak) thermal microwave emission by oxygen in the atmosphere.

In fact, without the greenhouse effect cooling the upper troposphere and warming the lower troposphere, the atmosphere would not become convectively unstable, and weather as we know it would cease. Sunlight and IR radiation transfers, by themselves, “try” to make the troposphere very unstable to convection, and it is the resulting convective overturning that makes the tropospheric lapse rate somewhere between the dry adiabatic value (9.8 deg C/km) and moist adiabatic (~6 to ~9 deg. C/km).

This is key: without IR absorption and emission by the atmosphere, surface heating by the sun would eventually warm the atmosphere to the same temperature as the surface, and such an “isothermal” atmosphere cannot support convection. The observed tropospheric temperature profile (warm below and cool above) is mostly the result of convective overturning, responding to constant destabilization by surface heating combined with middle- and upper-tropospheric IR cooling to outer space.

Yes, gravity is important to the whole process – but not in the simplistic way a few people think. Gravity is indeed a necessary part of determining what the dry convective lapse rate is, but that lapse rate only occurs in response to convective overturning, which in turn requires the greenhouse effect to destabilize the atmosphere in the first place.

The equations representing all of these physics can be put into a time-dependent one-dimensional model (we and many others have done this) that computes temperature changes at hundreds of different levels throughout the atmosphere. You can initialize the model at absolute zero temperature, or 1,000 Kelvin, it doesn’t matter…the resulting equilibrium temperature profile the model settles down to when it is run looks almost identical to the observed temperature profile.

Until someone does the same time-dependent modeling with their “alternative” physics (which are supported by laboratory measurements, as are [for example] the IR absorption properties of various gases), their hand-waving about gravity explaining lower atmospheric temperatures should be taken by non-specialists with a huge grain of salt. Specialists already ignore it entirely.

I realize the above explanation is too technical for some. But the atmosphere is an amazingly complex place, and atmospheric radiative transfer isn’t easy to grasp with intuition alone. I’ve been down the road of questioning the standard explanation of the “greenhouse effect”, and convinced myself it is, indeed, real.

But whether our ~1% enhancement of the natural greenhouse effect after 100 years of burning fossil fuels will cause enough warming to worry about is another matter entirely.
 

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http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion...lines+halt+transportation/10751914/story.html

Editorial: Opposing pipelines won’t halt transportation of oil


VANCOUVER SUN JANUARY 22, 2015

8

Environmentalists, focused on an epic battle against pipelines, have been mostly silent in the face of a growing number of oil shipments traversing B.C. by rail these days.

This does not make sense because a consensus exists that rail shipments of petroleum and petroleum products are more dangerous than pipeline transport.

The environmentalists’ opposition to new pipelines for the province ignores the practical reality that oil not moved by pipeline will be put on trains, and to a far lesser extent, trucks, to get the product to market.

B.C. experienced no fewer than 110 derailment incidents in 2013. Not all of those mishaps involved cars carrying petroleum but, with oil shipments increasing year to year, the possibility of serious accidents cannot be discounted.

A year ago, Canada’s transportation safety board warned “the amount of crude oil now being shipped by rail in North America is staggering.”

As Sun reporter Larry Pynn has written, six carloads carrying 251 tonnes of oil were transported into B.C. in 2009 During the first nine months of 2014, 3,133 carloads containing 250,185 tonnes of crude were transported into the province. The numbers suggest that when final figures are in, 2014 will be a banner year for rail shipments.

The 2013 derailment tragedy in Lac-Megantic, which devastated the core of that Quebec town, with the loss of 47 lives, underscored for British Columbians the dangers inherent in shipping oil by rail.

Yet two proposals for pipeline expansion in B.C. to handle increasing capacity are receiving such a rough ride, some predict they may never be built.

The $5.4-billion Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion, running from Edmonton to Burnaby, is under review by the National Energy Board, while the $7.9-billion Northern Gateway pipeline that would carry oilsands product to Kitimat is confronting 19 lawsuits, many from aboriginal opponents.

Environmentalists have been fighting tooth and nail against the two projects, without seeming to recognize that preventing B.C. pipeline expansion will neither shut down the oilsands development nor curtail the transport of oil into and across B.C.

The oil simply arrives by alternative, and potentially more dangerous, means.

That is because British Columbians continue to use energy products and oil continues to be exported out of Port Metro Vancouver.

With the price of oil recently in decline, news reports reveal that both U.S. and Canadian consumers have been purchasing more gas-guzzling SUVs and pickup trucks and fewer fuel-efficient sedans.

Whether or not the new pipelines are built in B.C., little will change the fact fossil fuels continue to meet the bulk of the world’s energy needs.

Moreover, according to the International Energy Agency, global energy demand is slated to increase by 37 per cent over the next 25 years.

So, environmental activists would be smart to concentrate their efforts on convincing consumers to become more energy efficient rather than working to nix a means of oil transport that — while certainly not foolproof — is safer than the alternative being deployed by default.

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
 
I see you have posted a few posts since I asked these questions, OBD. Are you planning on responding to these points, or will you be ignoring them - hoping this discussion will go away?
So - not interested in "informed" debate using the available science, eh OBD? Still avoiding the tough questions? cut and pasting from anonymous blogs much safer on the brain and ego? Easier - less thought process that way?
 
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