Climate: LNG in B.C. vs Alberta tarsands

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Really they have been moving fish to the biq q. To raise them for years as the water was to warm.
BS.... they move Summer Run Chinook Broodstock to keep the morts low till they can harvest the eggs in the fall. They do not raise Puntledge fish there. Why is it you don't know this or are you just confusing the issue. The issue is Puntledge can not raise Coho smolts because the river temps are too high. They die, is that not clear? They could raise them years ago but things have changed. The climate has changed. Get it?
They can fix the problem that has been know for years by a deep water intake from the lake.
Yup and the costs are 22 million. Who is going to pay for this? Oil companies, after all they are the ones that got us in this mess. It would be a rounding error on their balance sheet but that would be unacceptable to a CEO yearly bonus..... cheaper to fund denial blogs that you read.
By the way, please explain the last eighteen years of no
Global Warming and the effect on the river?
The only paw's is in the minds of your team as I have posted that graph many times. Why is it your team likes 18 years and not 20 or 30? Such an odd number, perhaps there is a reason for that. Cherry pick the start date perhaps? Some old dogs can't be taught new tricks.

You were talking about global warming and this was caused only by man.
That man was responsible due to co2.
That it has never been this warm since man walked the earth.
Yup it's man's problem and it is up to us to fix it. You may not give a wit for future generations but I do. Like I said educate yourself and lead, educate yourself and follow or get the heck out of the way.
That here should never be any other opinion than the IPPC.
Yea take advice from dark money (oil companies) PR that stand to lose their profits from the world moving to clean energy. Yup i'll get right on that. LOL Do you suggest we all listen to some grand conspiracy theory that a one world government and a communist is under every bed?
That the ocean would rise and wipe out Vancouver and all the people living on the ocean in the near future.
1 meter of sea level rise is very dangerous to Vancouver. How much money do you think they will need to spend to adapt to that? Will it be our future generations stuck with the bill? You think that it will stop at 1 meter? Again you know zero about the issues as it also affects the Fraser River. Educate yourself and do some critical thinking.
That Al Gore really knew what he was talking about with global warming and we all should believe him.
Nice try... attack the messenger as this is your teams way of debating the subject. Most people see through this argument.
 
Global Temperature Update
It’s official: no global warming for 18 years 1 month
By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Yup you want to tie your horse to this guy? I don't like to attack the messenger but this guy needs to be singled out as a quack.
I'll post other videos on his debunked ideas.

[hl2lShU6zD0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl2lShU6zD0
 
Lord Bunken

[JfA1LpiYk2o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfA1LpiYk2o
 
Lord Bunken part 2
[duxG4lyeSlc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duxG4lyeSlc
 
GLC.
The puntledge is warm due to man. Man damned the river. Man diverted the river.
Man can resolve the problem and as it was due to HYDRO required for people then the people and hydro should pay for the deep water intake.

Again nothing to do with global warming and everything to do with mans decisions on how to get hydro.

And as for COHO, they DFO do not want to raise coho and have been cutting back on production for years.
There are to many returning so stop producing them. Costs to much so lets just stop.
Again MAN and it is all about money.
See they are doing well on the Oyster and with your same global warming.
 
Quote Originally Posted by OldBlackDog View Post
That the ocean would rise and wipe out Vancouver and all the people living on the ocean in the near future.
1 meter of sea level rise is very dangerous to Vancouver. How much money do you think they will need to spend to adapt to that? Will it be our future generations stuck with the bill? You think that it will stop at 1 meter? Again you know zero about the issues as it also affects the Fraser River. Educate yourself .

Go ahead and tell us how much the ocean has risen in the last 100 years.
As you keep telling us show us the facts.
Then show us the facts that are guaranteed to how much it will rise in the next 20 years.
 
GLC. The puntledge is warm due to man. Man damned the river. Man diverted the river. Man can resolve the problem and as it was due to HYDRO required for people then the people and hydro should pay for the deep water intake. Again nothing to do with global warming and everything to do with mans decisions on how to get hydro.
I agree with you 1st statement/comment/assertion, OBD. so-called man-induced changes have warmed many rivers through increases in solar radiation (i.e. logging), changes in hydrologic cycles (i.e. logging, urbanization, etc.) AND climate change. To suggest that the reason that the river warmed is because it was damed, is incorrect - and to assert that by simply removing the dam, the water should now magically "cool" is fantasy. Dams neither cool nor warm water - they retain it for some length of time and allow stratification to happen if the water is deep enough. The location of any water intake in relation to water depth may or may not facilitate warmer or cooler water being drawn into the penstock pipe relatively-speaking in comparison to surface temperatures of the impoundment. The dam, however - neither cools nor warms that water. In the winter, often cooler water is at the surface of the impoundment, while in the summer - cooler water can be contained below any thermocline - if it exists.

Let's be real here on this discussion.
 
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Quote Originally Posted by OldBlackDog View Post
That Al Gore really knew what he was talking about with global warming and we all should believe him.
Nice try... attack the messenger as this is your teams way of debating the subject. Most people see through this argument.

He put it out there. He made the predictions.
So, you are saying it is not ok to question them? Really?
 
As to satellite taking the global temperatures that you do not like, well science is not on your side.

No global warming for 18 plus years.

I know you cannot live with it.
 
"There are in fact two things , science and opinion,The former begets knowledge , the latter ignorance " Hippocrates

Please start using science.
 
"There are in fact two things , science and opinion,The former begets knowledge , the latter ignorance " Hippocrates

Please start using science.

Coming from you who choses to ignore the best scientific advice available (IPCC, AAAS, etc), this is RICH. :-) People who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.
 
The IPCC report said that sea levels have risen by seven inches (19cm) since 1901 and are expected to rise a further 10 to 32 inches (26 to 82cm) by the end of the century.
It added that concentrations of CO2 and other greenhouse gases in the atmosphere have increased to levels that are unprecedented in at least 800,000 years.
But the landmark report conceded that world temperatures have barely risen in the past 15 years, despite growing amounts of greenhouse gases being pumped into the atmosphere.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...curbing-rising-temperature.html#ixzz3K7M15SbQ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
So there has been no GLOBAL WARMING in the last 18 years.
Can explain that.
The IPCC agrees.


Coming from you who choses to ignore the best scientific advice available (IPCC, AAAS, etc), this is RICH. :-) People who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.
 
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Antarctic Ice Thicker Than Previously Thought, Study Finds
Written by Dr. Benny Peiser, GWPF on 24 November 2014.

drillingAntarctica’s ice paradox has yet another puzzling layer. Not only is the amount of sea ice increasing each year, but an underwater robot now shows the ice is also much thicker than was previously thought, a new study reports. The discovery adds to the ongoing mystery of Antarctica’s expanding sea ice. According to climate models, the region’s sea ice should be shrinking each year because of global warming. Instead, satellite observations show the ice is expanding, and the continent’s sea ice has set new records for the past three winters. --Becky Oskin, LiveScience, 24 November 2014

Read more... 8 comments
 
Needed: Accurate Climate Forecasts
Written by Paul Driessen & David R Legates, guest post on 24 November 2014.

cartoon-chinaPresident Obama’s agreement with China is about as credible as his “affordable care” pronouncements.

Pleistocene glaciers repeatedly buried almost half of the Northern Hemisphere under a mile of ice. The Medieval Warm Period (~950-1250 AD) enriched agriculture and civilizations across Asia and Europe, while the Little Ice Age that followed (~1350-1850) brought widespread famines and disasters. The Dust Bowl upended lives and livelihoods for millions of Americans, while decades-long droughts vanquished once-thriving Anasazi and Mayan cultures, and flood and drought cycles repeatedly pounded African, Asian and Australian communities. Hurricanes and tornadoes have also battered states and countries throughout history, in numbers and intensities that have been impossible to pattern or predict.

But today we are supposed to believe climate variability is due to humans – and computer models can now forecast climate changes with amazing accuracy. These models and the alarmist scientists behind them say greenhouse gases will increasingly trigger more “severe, pervasive and irreversible impacts for people, species and ecosystems,” a recent UN report insists.

In reality, carbon dioxide’s effect on devastating weather patterns is greatly overstated. We are near a 30-year low in hurricane energy (measured by the ACE index of “accumulated cyclone energy”), and tropical cyclone and storm activity has not increased globally over that period. In fact, as of November 18, it’s been 3,310 days since a Category 3-5 hurricane hit the US mainland – by far the longest stretch since records began in 1900. This Atlantic hurricane season was the least active in 30 years.

Moreover, there has been no warming since 1995, several recent winters have been among the coldest in centuries in the United Kingdom and continental Europe, the 2013-14 winter was one of the coldest and snowiest in memory for much of the United States and Canada – and the cold spell could continue.

Accurate climate forecasts one, five or ten years in advance would certainly enable us to plan and prepare for, adapt to and mitigate the effects of significant or harmful climate variations, including temperatures, hurricanes, floods and droughts. However, such forecasts can never be even reasonably accurate under the climate change hypothesis that the IPCC, EPA and other agencies have adopted. The reason is simple.

Today’s climate research defines carbon dioxide as the principal driving force in global climate change. Virtually no IPCC-cited models or studies reflect the powerful, interconnected natural forces that clearly caused past climate fluctuations – most notably, variations in the sun’s energy output.

They also largely ignore significant effects of urban and other land use changes, and major high-impact fluctuations like the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (El Niño and La Niña) and North Atlantic Oscillation. If we truly want reliable predictive capabilities, we must eliminate the obsession with carbon dioxide as the primary driver of climate change – and devote far more attention to studying all the powerful forces that have always driven climate change, the roles they play, and the complex interactions among them.

We also need to study variations in the sun’s energy output, winds high in the atmosphere, soil moisture, winter snow cover and volcanic eruptions, Weatherbell forecaster Joe D’Aleo emphasizes. We also need to examine unusual features like the pool of warm water that developed in the central Pacific during the super La Niña of 2010-2011 and slowly drifted with the wind-driven currents into the Gulf of Alaska, causing the “polar vortex” that led to the cold, snowy winter of 2013-2014, he stresses.

“The potential for climate modeling mischief and false scares from incorrect climate model scenarios is tremendous,” says Colorado State University analyst Bill Gray, who has been studying and forecasting tropical cyclones for nearly 60 years. Among the reasons he cites for grossly deficient models are their “unrealistic model input physics,” the “overly simplified and inadequate numerical techniques,” and the fact that decadal and century-scale circulation changes in the deep oceans “are very difficult to measure and are not yet well enough understood to be realistically included in the climate models.”

Nor does applying today’s super computers to climate forecasting help matters. NOAA, the British Meteorological Office and other government analysts have some of the world’s biggest and fastest computers – and yet their (and thus the IPCC’s and EPA’s) predictions are consistently and stupendously wrong. Speedier modern computers simply make the “garbage in, garbage out” adage occur much more quickly, thereby facilitating faster faulty forecasts. Why does this continue? Follow the money.

Billions of dollars are doled out every year for numerous “scientific studies” that supposedly link carbon dioxide and other alleged human factors to dwindling frog populations, melting glaciers, migrating birds and cockroaches, and scores of other remote to ridiculous assertions. Focusing on “dangerous human-induced” climate change in research proposals greatly improves the likelihood of receiving grants.

American taxpayers alone provide a tempting $2.5 billion annually for research focused on human factors, through the EPA, Global Change Research Program and other government agencies. Universities and other institutions receiving grants take 40% or more off the top for “project management” and “overhead.” None of them wants to upset this arrangement, and all of them fear that accepting grants to study natural factors or climate cycles might imperil funding from sources that have their own reasons for making grants tied to manmade warming, renewable energy or antipathy toward fossil fuels. Peer pressure and shared views on wealth redistribution via energy policies, also play major roles.

When Nebraska lawmakers budgeted $44,000 for a review of climate cycles and natural causes, state researchers said they would not be interested unless human influences were included. The “natural causes” proposal was ultimately scuttled in favor of yet another meaningless study of human influences.

The result is steady streams of computer model outputs that alarmists ensure us accurately predict climate changes. However, none of them forecast the 18-years-and-counting warming pause, the absence of hurricanes, or other real-world conditions. Nearly every one predicted temperatures that trend higher with every passing year and exceed recorded global temperatures by ever widening margins.

The constant predictions of looming manmade climate disasters are also used to justify demands that developed nations “compensate” poor and developing countries with tens or hundreds of billions of dollars in annual climate “reparation, adaptation and mitigation” money. Meanwhile, those no-longer-so-wealthy nations are implementing renewable energy and anti-hydrocarbon policies that drive up energy costs for businesses and families, kill millions of jobs, and result in thousands of deaths annually among elderly pensioners and others who can no longer afford to heat their homes properly during cold winters.

Worst of all, the climate disaster predictions are used to justify telling impoverished countries that they may develop only to extent enabled by wind and solar power. Financial institutions increasingly refuse to provide grants or loans for electricity generation projects fueled by coal or natural gas. Millions die every year because they do not have electricity to operate water purification facilities, refrigerators to keep food and medicine from spoiling, or stoves and heaters to replace wood and dung fires that cause rampant lung diseases. As Alex Epstein observes in his new book, The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels:

“If you’re living off the grid and can afford it, an installation with a battery that can power a few appliances might be better than the alternative (no energy or frequently returning to civilization for diesel fuel), but [such installations] are essentially useless in providing cheap, plentiful energy for 7 billion people – and to rely on them would be deadly.”

By expanding our research – to include careful, honest, accurate studies of natural factors – we will be better able to discern and separate significant human influences from the powerful natural forces that have caused minor to profound climate fluctuations throughout history. Only then will we begin to improve our ability to predict why, when, how and where Earth’s climate is likely to change in the future. Congress should reduce CO2 funding and earmark funds for researching natural forces that drive climate change.

Paul Driessen is senior policy analyst for the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow (www.CFACT.org) and author of Eco-Imperialism: Green power - Black death and coauthor of Cracking Big Green: To save the world from the save-the-Earth money machine. David R. Legates, PhD, CCM, is a Professor of Climatology at the University of Delaware in Newark, Delaware, USA.
 
GLC.
The puntledge is warm due to man. Man damned the river. Man diverted the river.
Man can resolve the problem and as it was due to HYDRO required for people then the people and hydro should pay for the deep water intake.

Again nothing to do with global warming and everything to do with mans decisions on how to get hydro.

And as for COHO, they DFO do not want to raise coho and have been cutting back on production for years.
There are to many returning so stop producing them. Costs to much so lets just stop.
Again MAN and it is all about money.
See they are doing well on the Oyster and with your same global warming.

Do you not remember this....
Fishery Notice

Category(s):
RECREATIONAL - Salmon

Subject:
FN0678-RECREATIONAL -Salmon - Non-retention of Coho and Chinook Salmon in Region 1 - Puntledge River




Coho and chinook salmon returns to the Puntledge River are forecast to be lower
than average in 2011. Local hatchery staff have indicated that hatchery coho
smolts experienced extremely high rearing mortality in 2008 due to high water
temperatures and unfavorable rearing conditions.


At this time returns are uncertain therefore the daily limit for coho and
chinook salmon will remain at zero (0) in the Puntledge River until further
notice.

This is an update to page 8 of the 2011-2013 BC Freshwater Salmon Supplement.


FOR MORE INFORMATION:

Contact the nearest Fisheries and Oceans Canada office or visit our website at
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca.
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0678
Sent August 5, 2011 at 1528
 
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