Cap Mouth Closure - Port Authority

[Prairie Locked]

With all due respect, lets not sugar coat this with a safety issue blanket. They are supposedly closing the ambleside boat launch. Doesn't this create a "safety issue" for someone in say a 14' boat who can no longer access this area safely? I will say it before you do. It creates a hazard for the multitudes of people walking in that area. When we drive our car a bad mistake in judgement can result in a fatality. Do we stop all cars driving because of the potential for an accident? If someone is stupid enough to be in front of a cruise ship or freighter and they get hit that is there fault. I am glad you got to the real agenda here. The MONEY the poor shipping company and the business that need those ships running will lose. Bingo! When you people no longer have a place to fish because the waters are too polluted or you are no longer "allowed" to fish, look in the mirror and you can tell yourself I am a good citizen. I trust the government to look out for my best interest. I am not entitled, I have rights when I am told I have rights. Prior to 1997 I could go and catch lingcod and rock cod locally. For nineteen years and the foreseeable future no has been or will be able to legally catch rock cod or lingcod locally. When your boats get in the way of their money they will find a reason like safety issues to shut down your fishing. Right now you guys have the big boats, the money and ability to travel to get fish but the day will come when this will affect YOU and we will see who keeps toeing the line.

Again, all due respect.

Simply put, I'd argue that you're blurring the lines. This isn't the DFO, this isn't the federal government, it's the local Port Authority. It has nothing to do with fishing. Regardless of whether it is safety or money, does it really matter.

And I adamantly disagree about the safety issue blanket. That's all it is. Plain and simple.

Your analogy of driving and collisions is a poor one at best. See, this is because we have roadways with defined boundaries, traffic control devices, etc. Distracted driving laws are meant to make roads safer yet people continue to text while they drive. Why? Because they are ignorant and think they know best, thinking"who are they to tell me what I can do when I'm driving?" So, if you, who has a sense of 'entitlement' swerves out of your lane while texting and driving, it's simply an 'accident'? Nope, it's not. Here's where the irony is. We, who work in public safety do not refer to them as 'accidents' any longer. They are called collisions. May be a formality but since we know that all 'accidents' are preventable and avoidable as accident's are usually associated with an 'oops' moment. When a person willfully makes a decision to drive drunk, stoned, or text and drive, it's not an accident. If you make a decision to not follow the rules of the road or the sea, it's not an accident, it's called willful negligence. Keep in mind, rules are always based on the lowest common denominator. Laws are usually for public SAFETY.

As a good citizen, if an area I like to fish is closed, I follow the law and go somewhere where it is open. Since you're not an 'entitled' person, what are the rights that you have that you feel are being violated? What gives you the right to fish in the shipping lane that the P.A is restricting access to, and how does that right supersede the P.A's authority?

The simplest picture I can paint for you is, even if you have the right of way or even have a legal right, you always yield to the size and weight advantage. Why? Because you never truly win when you are dead.

 

[Eastmon]

I think it's more frustration of being constantly pushed around. Compounded by a tough year.

 

[Peahead]

Right now.

Thanks for photo - just flipped it right way up.... although the boats being shown upside down in the channel is rather ironic considering what could happen if fishing in a shipping lane lol

 

[Peahead]

Thanks for your posts Prairie Locked. I think your texting while driving example is a good one .....to add, I think perhaps this type of person not only thinks they are above the law or "intitled" but also maybe that nothing bad will happen to them (They won't get caught or they won't ever cause a collision) Maybe we should remind fishyfish of the Quok incident off Horseshoe Bay?

My first thought when reading fishyfish's first post that he was just a troll or someone frustrated with laws and rules and thrashing out. As he continued his posts I think he's just an example of how some people just can't see the forest through the trees. By that I mean no matter what logic or comparrisons you throw at them they have a belief and won't or simply can't think see logic. If someone doesn't understand the difference between right or wrong.....or don't care, what's next ?

 

[Prairie Locked]

Thanks for your posts Prairie Locked. I think your texting while driving example is a good one .....to add, I think perhaps this type of person not only thinks they are above the law or "intitled" but also maybe that nothing bad will happen to them (They won't get caught or they won't ever cause a collision) Maybe we should remind fishyfish of the Quok incident off Horseshoe Bay?

My first thought when reading fishyfish's first post that he was just a troll or someone frustrated with laws and rules and thrashing out. As he continued his posts I think he's just an example of how some people just can't see the forest through the trees. By that I mean no matter what logic or comparrisons you throw at them they have a belief and won't or simply can't think see logic. If someone doesn't understand the difference between right or wrong.....or don't care, what's next ?

Very valid points Peahead, and thanks BTW.

I don't typically get into a discussion with people like you are describing. The problem for me is, these are the people that almost run me and my co-workers over at an accident scene.

Only because I have some time will I even try to be a voice of reason, otherwise, I wouldn't bother. I don't see any level of frustration in the broader sense of the posts, I see it being more ignorance. Frustration I get. Ignorance, I do not.

 

[Gilligan22]

Very sad to just hear about this and knowing we will never be able to fish this area again. I have some good memories catching fish with family and friends and spending beautiful fall days fishing the Cap (despite the odd day crowded with boats). It was especially nice hitting this on a weekday with only a handful of boats out there.

If I reckon correctly though the area in front of the pink apartments is still in bounds - do I have that right?. I have always had some luck in this area although not nearly as good as closer to the mouth. That small area left open in front of Ambleside is also an area where I have caught a few fish, but it is so small I can't imagine one could make this work with any more than a few boats in this area. Good luck to all fishing what is left of the area.

 

[Rednex3]

Still waiting for this answer...... @fishyfish .

Look deep into it for the irony, and there the answer will be!

Just going to sit back with the popcorn here. Maybe pine for the activities and sport I've been told I can't do by my trusted government in the name of 'public safety' since, let's say, 1995 (probably a more significant year than 1997 for rights we used to have).

Public safety my butt!

 

[jeff candy]

Thanks for photo - just flipped it right way up.... although the boats being shown upside down in the channel is rather ironic considering what could happen if fishing in a shipping lane lol

View attachment 29559

Hmmmm if the Port Authority was out there at this time they would have had to chase those boats up on dry land, I get why they are pissed off last yearI saw a guide boat crossing over from the marker while a freighter was coming through the bridge and laying on his horns. They used to come out and herd everybody back closer to the marker but allowed us about 50-60' of leeway. Be interesting to see how they enforce tomorrow

 

[fishin_magician]

Well, let us see now... if the Cap Hatchery could release 2.5 million Coho and 2.5 million Chinook....and the ocean were capable of supporting that....we would not need to get within a half mile of the Cap mouth at any time of year to catch fish... lol.

I think we should look for another river where we can manufacture a fishery....

 

[TheBigGuy]

It definitely seems like the hatchery will be producing fish to be caught by everyone else but Vancouverites once the new boundaries are in place. Yes you can catch fish down the entire west van shoreline, but most of the fish hold off the river mouth till the river is high enough. If you are lucky you will pick up the odd fish down Ambleside and west bay these days, but it's mostly only a fall back to get out of a strong NW wind. Take away the cap mouth fishery, and the hatchery seems like a colossal waste of production for local anglers. If the smolts were all held in net pens in West Bay or elsewhere before being released at least then local anglers would get a bit of a Crack at the returning fish. Put hatchery on the Indian River and the guys would have nice protected waters to fish with no problems interfering with commercial traffic. The Cap hatchery seems like nothing a big snafu without being allowed a terminal fishery.

 

[Peahead]

It definitely seems like the hatchery will be producing fish to be caught by everyone else but Vancouverites once the new boundaries are in place. The Cap hatchery seems like nothing a big snafu without being allowed a terminal fishery.

Woh there .....lets get some catch facts first before you right off the cap hatchery for locals for goodness sakes TBG. Just so you know some of my Howe Sound winter feeders (3 year olds) have come from cap hatchery. As well from the outer harbour in spring/summer. All my local and obviously cap bound coho so far this year have been from no where near the cap mouth PA closure area. Off Bowen, Worlecome and Popham for example -Even the hump as early as May 1st ! Don't be so quick to put down the importance of the cap hatchery for locals....it provides. Breath in and exhale slowly.....I've said it before on this forum... 'Think outside the box' ( the closure area lol )

 

[TheBigGuy]

Woh there .....lets get some catch facts first before you right off the cap hatchery for locals for goodness sakes TBG. Just so you know some of my Howe Sound winter feeders (3 year olds) have come from cap hatchery. As well from the outer harbour in spring/summer. All my local and obviously cap bound coho so far this year have been from no where near the cap mouth PA closure area. Off Bowen, Worlecome and Popham for example -Even the hump as early as May 1st ! Don't be so quick to put down the importance of the cap hatchery for locals....it provides. Breath in and exhale slowly.....I've said it before on this forum... 'Think outside the box' ( the closure area lol )

Ya ok maybe I got a little carried away there, but this will definitely make a huge difference to guys who live in Vancouver. If you live elsewhere it's probably not such a big impact. Living and fishing in Vancouver most of my adult life this is a huge change in the local fishing opportunities for guys with smaller boats who want to fish sheltered water.

 

[Tugcapitan]

Public safety my butt!

Then what's this all about? A Port Metro conspiracy against recreational fishing? Ha!

If some hapless fisherman without experience or situational awareness manages to maneuver himself in front of an outbound grain ship and gets himself run over, what would the front page announce the next morning?
"BELOVED LOCAL MAN KILLED BY TANKER"
Never mind the facts, I'm sure the article would call into question the BC Coast Pilot and ship Captain's actions, and after a suitable amount of conjecture, would then launch into the marine consequences of twinning of the Kinder Morgan pipeline. Perhaps the Exon Valdez would be brought up for good measure.

The general public has no stomach for the popular "Darwins law" attitude (no matter how correct it might be.)
Those standing watch who followed the rules, made radio calls, blew the horn and reduced speed would still go to court, and forever wonder what they could have done to save a life.
The precedent in Canada has already been set, when not too long ago in Rupert, a ship intentionally grounded on the soft shallows off Digby Island instead of running over a commercial fishing vessel on autopilot with nobody at the wheel. The pilot was patted on the back for saving lives. He probably wasn't as worried about the donkey who should have been on lookout, as he was about the possible wife, kids or crew members asleep below.
So, instead of running over said "problem boat" at the Cap, do we run the ship aground at Stanley Park or the Cap mouth instead? Would the public rather the fisherman died than the ship go aground? Maybe, but no one will ever make that call with a clear conscience.

It's getting bad out there. Of my many transits of first narrows this summer, I'd estimate 2 out of 3 held situations of concern with errant pleasure craft. Personally I have more problems with sailboats than fisherman, but how do you target enforcement on sailboats? Fishing activity at the Cap is easier to curtail, and unfortunately for those of us who love fishing there, too many fisherman are also getting in the way. I've had some really great days of fishing the Cap, and "the zone" is now closed. It sucks.
I'd personally rather see a Port Authority boat out there directing traffic instead of a closure, I think it would be more effective than a closure only those who read the rules know about. That way the sailboats and yachts prancing about in the wrong place at the wrong time could be slapped on the wrist too. Seems like the Port guys are only out there during cruise ship season though.
The only silver lining I see here is that enforcement may be on the scene more if nothing else but to enforce the new boundaries, although it sounds like even after a warning is given and ship's bows are still crossed, nothing much will happen. Maybe if people were worried about hefty fines or boat impoundment they might think twice, although it blows me away that the risk of death doesn't seem to be enough.
Just like the texting/drinking and driving analogy above.....

 

[bones]

It definitely seems like the hatchery will be producing fish to be caught by everyone else but Vancouverites once the new boundaries are in place. Yes you can catch fish down the entire west van shoreline, but most of the fish hold off the river mouth till the river is high enough. If you are lucky you will pick up the odd fish down Ambleside and west bay these days, but it's mostly only a fall back to get out of a strong NW wind. Take away the cap mouth fishery, and the hatchery seems like a colossal waste of production for local anglers. If the smolts were all held in net pens in West Bay or elsewhere before being released at least then local anglers would get a bit of a Crack at the returning fish. Put hatchery on the Indian River and the guys would have nice protected waters to fish with no problems interfering with commercial traffic. The Cap hatchery seems like nothing a big snafu without being allowed a terminal fishery.

We used to fish cap Coho from Pender harbour down to Gibson's ever year. Caught tons of hohos from the cap and never fished in front of it. No hatchery on the Indian unless it is FN as they have rights there now. If you want a cap fishery it starts with money. Cap hatchery used to release 1.7m smolts and production is now only 400 -500K. Want fish write a letter to minister asking for increased production.

 

[wildmanyeah]

CAP has been on fire these last 2 weeks! Springs are starting to darken up tho! Hope this BS closer don't get in the way. With how hot its been soon everyone in the lower mainland will be down here when they figure out sandheads is a dud!

 

[fishyfish]

It is a matter of frustration from being constantly told what to do and to maybe seemingly always getting the short end of the stick. I realize this posting is about the port closure. I am probably more concerned about when the ambleside boat launch will be closed. I don't know how I will safely be able to access the cap in my 14' boat. Getting old is tough when you remember how good things use to be. I guess we still have the memories. At least I can still read the reports from "the arrogant ones" who have the ability to jump into their large moored boat and go to where they are allowed to still catch fish.

 

[Blackmax]

CAP has been on fire these last 2 weeks! Springs are starting to darken up tho! Hope this BS closer don't get in the way. With how hot its been soon everyone in the lower mainland will be down here when they figure out sandheads is a dud!

I have hooked 6 there in past 2 weeks in 3 outings, all over 20 and yes they are turning.Saying that tho there are always new fish arriving, I have caught all fish at a certain point of tide at the bottom with either cut plug or chovie.They seem to want a certain speed and current direction or will not bite but that could be due to my gear, I always fish 6-7 foot leaders if using flashers at Cap. I would have reported this earlier but wanted a few trips by myself.

 

[TheBigGuy]

I have hooked 6 there in past 2 weeks in 3 outings, all over 20 and yes they are turning.Saying that tho there are always new fish arriving, I have caught all fish at a certain point of tide at the bottom with either cut plug or chovie.They seem to want a certain speed and current direction or will not bite but that could be due to my gear, I always fish 6-7 foot leaders if using flashers at Cap. I would have reported this earlier but wanted a few trips by myself.

Thanks for the report that was nice of you to offer the information.

I feel for the older guys with the smaller boats like fishy fish. With the closure of the 14th street ramp, and now the entire area close to the mouth of the cap it really doesn't leave a lot of easily accessible productive waters locally to fish on the ocean.

As I mentioned in an earlier post the waters in Indian Arm are some of the calmest most protected waters locally. It was great when they were raising springs in net pens in Indian Arm. That was a great fishery for smaller boats that started in July and basically lasted all summer and into the fall. It would be nice to see some funds be redirected to an alternate location like Indian Arm so there's a safe location with good fishing that doesn't cause concerns with the commercial traffic (like the cap and South arm). The fish were released near the water outlets of the Buntzen powerhouse. So, those fish stayed staged there with no way to get upstream. In the fall most of the remaining fish probably wandered off to find the Indian River to spawn in. That was an awesome alternate option for windy days for guys with smaller boats.

 

[fishin solo]

It is a matter of frustration from being constantly told what to do and to maybe seemingly always getting the short end of the stick. I realize this posting is about the port closure. I am probably more concerned about when the ambleside boat launch will be closed. I don't know how I will safely be able to access the cap in my 14' boat. Getting old is tough when you remember how good things use to be. I guess we still have the memories. At least I can still read the reports from "the arrogant ones" who have the ability to jump into their large moored boat and go to where they are allowed to still catch fish.

Who you calling arrogant ? Just cause we can moor our boats ? Wtf?

 

[bones]

wow....