Braided DR line for dummies!

[Tailspin]

What are single terminal gear leads? Sounds like a good idea. I have just been using the red stops doubled up, a pain when stacking having to hit the button twice.

www.tailspincharters.com

 

[beemer]

hey tailspin , they are the little leads you get when you buy your scotty cannonball clips. When you squeeze them on use the wirecutter portion of your pliers (go easy) then give them a squeeze to flatten them out.

 

[drhook]

I've just switched this summer to 150 lb Power Pro as well and have had trouble with the release clips abrading the power pro to the point that it breaks after only 4 days fishing. I wonder if some of the 'unexplained' breaks that some of you have expressed having was caused by this. Other than slipping plastic tubing over the line and locking it in place with the red beads, I don't have a solution.

 

[Derby]

Needs to be 200lb. 150 lb is to light. Scotty new Lighter braid has the same breakage problem
[]

 

[Island Fish Lifter]

quote:Originally posted by Smiley

IFL, what knot do use to make the loop in the end of the DR braid?
A simple overhand on doubled braid would work but would this knot decrease the strength of the braid?


Thank you.

Smiley.

Overhand knot is fine...I havnt broken it yet.

Fill the dam tub!

 

[scott craven]

Wire rusts and breaks, braid does not!
i have not broken braid on a hangup yet...
either the downrigger clip gives, or the ganyon leader breaks.
Cheap wire will cause a lot more problem's in the long run.

 

[chris73]

I have just finished the 5th season with my SS wire (still the same)and there is nothing wrong with it. Besides snipping off 2-3 feet after few weeks and flushing after each day I had nothing else to do with it. See no reason to change.

 

[searun]

I fish a 80+ days a year, and have never had wire last a season. The other issue with wire is if you hang on bottom, 7 out 10 times it will break. With dacron or spectra you very often get the ball off by backing up...so long as you have time to stop before you rub the rocks.

I also use a swivel as a stopper just above the cannon ball. Works every time and no need for those useless stoppers. I like the idea of using a crimp further up the line for holding your clip in place...nice idea!!!

When you weigh the cost of wire vs dacron it is cheaper in the long run because you can get multiple seasons of hard fishing with dacron. With wire you will replace it more often.

 

[the fog ducker]

I agree Searun , I may try the crimps next season as well ,just hope the crimp does not create a week spot over time , or abrasion to line on the rigger spool ! working it repeatedly on and off ..[?], ..... the red beads do slip a little here and there , especially when fishing deep water year round, WCVI , as we do , like yourself , 5 years on SS , That's incredible , 1 -2 years is all we ever got ,if SS works for ya , stick with it.

Cheers ...FD...

 

[Dogbreath]

quote:Originally posted by The Fog Ducker

I agree Searun , I may try the crimps next season as well ,just hope the crimp does not create a week spot over time , or abrasion to line on the rigger spool ! working it repeatedly on and off ..[?], ..... the red beads do slip a little here and there

Crimps will abrade Spectra, if you want those red beads to stay put take two short pieces of Spectra and tie a 4 turn uniknot above and below the bead tighten well and secure with a drop or two of superglue.

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by r.s craven

Wire rusts and breaks, braid does not!
i have not broken braid on a hangup yet...
either the downrigger clip gives, or the ganyon leader breaks.
Cheap wire will cause a lot more problem's in the long run.

My wire doesn't rust or break? I haven't broken a cable on a hangup in years? I must be doing something wrong, must be I don't use "cheap" cable?

quote:Originally posted by Bag-Juan

Yeah, seem,s like a bit of a riddle, I know some guy,s swear on the black box. They gotta set it to .5 for this fish & .9 for that fish! Like you say, probably helps if you're running hot. Other-wise just one more gadget to fart around with. Thanx for the come-back.

It’s not really a riddle. Your boat has an electrical charge around the hull in water. If a boat is properly bonded and properly zinced, that charge should be slightly positive when measured from ground to the downrigger cable. When the stainless steel downrigger cable is lowered into the water, the natural ionization between the cable and the boat creates a positive charge of 0.7 to 0.9 volts in saltwater and 0.3 to 0.6 volts in fresh water. This natural voltage is dependent upon salinity and mineral content of the water. In saltwater, make sure the sacrificial zincs are replaced when half dissolved. This ensures that the boat will run with a neutral or slightly positive charge. Clean zincs on a regular basis with a non-corrosive brush.

Drop backs of 10 to 20 ft. are typical. A drop back of somewhere between 50 to 100 ft. will entirely negate any effects, good or bad as the current won’t travel that far.

In short… save your money, don’t buy a black box, buy zincs!

quote:Originally posted by smiley66
The only thing that is bad though is that when you snag a ball with cable. You can get stress fractures in the cable.
This causes it to get frayed, and unwind over time.

If your drag is set correctly, there shouldn’t really be enough additional stress to create frays, but if it does fray, you should be able to see that… just cut it off and go on?

quote:Cable dragging especially in water tends to vibrate creating harmonic frequency sound in water. Does it matter? maybe... I combat it by using a good principle. Plastics/rubbers are good insulators, so I use a snubber which dampens the frequency. I have found the sound of the cable is gone.

I actually look for that sound! If you watch your cable, the pitch of that sound changes with your cable angle.

quote: Sorry I probably bored you with engineering stuff I tend to do that sometimes.

All in all I think it is a personal choice. The wire I run is the cheapest I can find. Usually Angler/gibbs. Last time I looked braided was well over 40 per 300ft. I can get three spools of wire for that.

It isn’t always a personal choice… I have Cannon, so I can’t use braid, due to the “short stop” system, but I probably wouldn’t use braid anyway?[:0]

Cheap is NOT where you want to be with your downrigger cables and I would NOT run the “cheapest” I could find? I would run the "BEST" I could find, at the "cheapest" price! All cables are not create equal! [:0][:0]

My cables are well over 5 years old and I probably fish more than the average, as I do fish year round. I watch them for kinks and frays and I rinse with fresh water and put WD40, after every use!

There is very much and a lot of difference in quality of cable. I used Scotty and Angler once… never again! I personally don’t like their cables. Neither held up and both were taken off way to soon into the season. They did nothing but fray and break! Scotty and Angler both use 304 Stainless Steel. I will only run 7 strand 316 Stainless. If it doesn’t say 316 SS on it, save your money, buy braid! I would very much prefer braid to using cheap wire!

In the end I guess it is personal choice, but it sounds from everyone on this thread, braid is a lot more trouble than my wire? I like my wire!

 

[wolf]

Do a search on this topic and you will lots of info on it and HOW to stop SS wire from breaking I know L.C. used the method I have mentoned and he didnt lose any more cannon balls.


Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by smiley66

Charlie just for the record:

304 SS vs 316 SS

316 has better corrosion resistance that 304.It is the cadillac of stainless.

316 is more expensive material than 304. Quite high twice in most cases only due to material availability from suppliers.

316 has a marginal higher break strength vs 304.

The 7th strand is probably stronger, and would be a little better. Most likely probably using the WD 40- is what saves you. I hate the smell of that stuff,so I would never I use it.

Why thanks for agreeing with me on 316 is better! I am guite sure the 7th strand, the additional strength, rinsing, and the WD 40 is what helps! No doubt in my mind, at all!

Oh... and just for the record:
Stainless Steel 304 has good mechanical properties and corrosion resistance. = Cr 17-19% Ni 8-11% Fe BAL, Applications include: Springs, Wire Gauze, Wire Cloth

Stainless Steel 316 has slightly better corrosion resistance than 302 and 304. It also has better non-magnetic properties. = Cr 16.5-18.5% Ni 10.5-13.5% Fe BAL Mo 2.0-5%, Applications include: More suited to Marine, Food and Medical application than 302 and 304

It must be the molybdenum compounds that are used in high pressure and high temperature applications, as pigments and catalysts that makes the difference?

Sorry, I just couldn't resist! [:0]

 

[cliffjumper]

juandesooka, the palomar is a great knot but if you're attaching looped wire, like swivels or tie on stoppers, you can easily get one of the two palomar threads getting hung up around the swivel-eye and not notice. The knot will break easily.

For terminal end joins I always use a doubled uni knot on my braids. Never ever had a break on anything. But, mid-line, it is usually a palomar because it's easy to tie & a good knot. But I'll still use a doubled uni now & again.

 

[TheBigGuy]

quote:Originally posted by cliffjumper

juandesooka, the palomar is a great knot but if you're attaching looped wire, like swivels or tie on stoppers, you can easily get one of the two palomar threads getting hung up around the swivel-eye and not notice. The knot will break easily.

For terminal end joins I always use a doubled uni knot on my braids. Never ever had a break on anything. But, mid-line, it is usually a palomar because it's easy to tie & a good knot. But I'll still use a doubled uni now & again.

I use the San Diego Jam Knot for connecting my Power Pro 200 to the cannon ball. I have been using the San Diego Jam knot for almost 20 years. It is an extremely strong knot, and is highly regarded for big game fishing. It has only recently been widely recognized as a great knot for spectra use as well. I have used it for at least fifteen years on spectra knots and have never had one slip. For use with braided lines increase to 10-12 turns, instead of the standard 5-7. This is a very easy knot to tie, and works great with all tests of lines from super heavy mono, to flouro, to spectra. Field and Stream rated it "The Strongest Terminal Knot" in it's extensive testing recently.

Below is the link to the Field and Stream knot test results:

http://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/fishing/bass/where-fish/2009/02/strongest-fishing-knots

Below is another link with video tutorials on how to tie the single and Double San Diego Jam Knot(which is bulkier, but even stronger). Video's aren't necessary as it's such an easy knot to tie, but some people prefer videos so I thought I'd include.

http://ultimatefishingblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/san-diego-jam-knot-reverse-clinch-knot.html

 

[TheBigGuy]

quote:Originally posted by UNKNOWN

Plainly dressed spectra crimped joins break. They fail do to exesive wear. A simple solution is to use a protective dacron line as a sheath over the area join where the crimps and the main run of line are secured as your stopper. Placing dacron over the spectra and sliding two aluminum crimps over both lines to create the crimp stopper locations is easy to do and lasts for some time. This will be more abrasion proof, it is not 100%, however does extend the wear time substantially as compared to the plastic red stopper system.

The line eventually breaks when the unprotected dacron scuffs off and the spectra wears through, or the line is put under a heavy load, such as pulling balls that are jammed off bottom. This technique will out last a bare line with normal stoppers and metal clips.

Another solution is 3mm vinyl tubing threaded on the main line with a stopper or crimp secured at each end of the tubing, there by creating a spot to clip onto at various depth locations. A little crazy glue will help stop sliding with the red plastic stoppers.

Always remember to add a stopper in the system that will trigger the off switch before the pulley reaches your depth location or your snubber to help hamper loss of clips and balls.

[edit to add]
There is one final solution, that in theory should work very well...I have not had the opportunity to try yet. It is a variation of the tubing and red plastic locater solution. Follow the same steps above, crazy glue and then add enough shrink tube to lap onto both plastic locater beads. Heat shrink the tubing into place. This now connects the entire system together and creates extra holding distribution between all points and adds a layer of extra protection against wear. I'll be trying it soon...

- UNKNOWN -

Another option worth testing is a heavy dacron sleeve section about 6 inches in length tied in at each end with a simple granny knot. This knot has been tested at 90% strength with a dacron sleeve on spectra lines. With the heavy dacron section anchored at each end by a granny knot a stopper bead could be added that should not then slip. This could also be used as an anchor point for clips to prevent them slipping up the line.

Below is a link to an interesting site that tested this knot:

http://www.fishingkites.co.nz/fishingknots/spectra_fishing_line.html

This might be an easy solution to the problem of slippage on braided lines. Just a thought.

 

[AlK]

I switched to 200 lb power pro a couple of years ago and since then have not lost any cannon balls. With the brakes on my downriggers set to around 30 lbs the brakes will let the downrigger line slip should I get hung up on the bottom which hopefully gives me a chance to retrieve the ball.

I purchased 500 yards of 200lb Powerpro in January 2008 for $100 Can ($95 US), which was a lot less than SS.

As far as stacking lines you can attach barrel swivels anywhere on your line as shown by the following picture.

 

[Olde School]

Thanks to all who posted on my request.
Updates to come!
Smiley.