IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
Please watch this important message from Jesse Zeman on a development that affects all resident hunters in British Columbia. Our press release follows, and there is information below that on how you can take action
BC trades away outdoor recreation rights to continue industrial encroachment in the Peace region
- Thread starter IronNoggin
- Start date
Bryan Allen
Well-Known Member
And there will be more...........Please watch this important message from Jesse Zeman on a development that affects all resident hunters in British Columbia. Our press release follows, and there is information below that on how you can take action
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
My friend who is an avid hiker unloaded on my last weekend about how they are closing trail everywhere. Even though there are groups that will fundraise and pay to maintain trail, the government wont issue the permits. They choose to let the trails get dangerous and then they close them. So its just putting more people on the few maintained trails left, then they close those because of the issues that happen with overcrowding. Also losing trail to First Nations not wanting people in their traditional territories.
The theme seem pretty clear they don't want people to have use of the wilderness.
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
Looking that way, and certainly will unless we stand up to them.
As a result of the Blueberry Band court ruling last year which stated the BC government infringed on their rights, the same government just made a back door deal with the band which allows them to continue with the resource extraction in the band's territory - in exchange for limiting hunters/anglers/campers/hikers (and more) access to the areas in question.
This is wildlife management by social pressure not science. The NDP has once again sold out the general public for their own gain.
This is a massive blow that completely undermines the entire science-based wildlife management model.
However, a response campaign has been organized, letters are flowing, and meetings being set up with MLA's around the Province to express our concerns. I am hopeful this will get their attention. If this is a cause of concern for every one of you reading this, I strongly suggest at least a letter to your own MLA. A template letter is presented on the BCWF link above.
I am also hopeful that should they try and proceed that we have legal grounds to pursue the matter further (being investigated now).
Nog
walleyes
Well-Known Member
Once again governments driving devision in people rather than dealing with the issue. Industry rather it be forestry, oil and gas and mining being made the villain. Turning people’s view of it and then eventual stoppage. And if it would stop the hunting privileges will never be returned. Stop playing into their hands and demand they stand up to the issue.
Industry in that area is not encroaching on the First nations right to hunt and fish or their traditional way of life. It’s not the 1700’s any longer those people for the most part buy their food at the grocery store like everyone else. What it is is a group of people holding the people of the province and that includes industry and hunters and fishers hostage for a ransom. Your NDP government will not stand up to them because Natives and Unions are their voter base and they will never do anything to infringe on that voter base.
Most ungulates have flourished in AB in most regions where there has been heavy oil and gas activity and logging. Oil and gas sites and pipelines lines provide ample food for ungulates during times of poor feeding like cold harsh winters. Cut blocks provide a balanced eco system that support a wide range of animals and a much needed bio diversity.
On the coast they have used First Nations and the whales as an excuse to get us off the water. In land they are using First nations and industry to get us off the land. WHEN ARE PEOPLE GOING TO WAKE UP AND SEE THE TRUTH BEHIND IT ALL and stop blaming each other and start going after the real problem.
Industry in that area is not encroaching on the First nations right to hunt and fish or their traditional way of life. It’s not the 1700’s any longer those people for the most part buy their food at the grocery store like everyone else. What it is is a group of people holding the people of the province and that includes industry and hunters and fishers hostage for a ransom. Your NDP government will not stand up to them because Natives and Unions are their voter base and they will never do anything to infringe on that voter base.
Most ungulates have flourished in AB in most regions where there has been heavy oil and gas activity and logging. Oil and gas sites and pipelines lines provide ample food for ungulates during times of poor feeding like cold harsh winters. Cut blocks provide a balanced eco system that support a wide range of animals and a much needed bio diversity.
On the coast they have used First Nations and the whales as an excuse to get us off the water. In land they are using First nations and industry to get us off the land. WHEN ARE PEOPLE GOING TO WAKE UP AND SEE THE TRUTH BEHIND IT ALL and stop blaming each other and start going after the real problem.
The court ruling tied their hands.
They could have halted all further resource extraction to comply with the BC Supreme Court but took the route that screws the citizens instead.
Just read the thread on the Joran River Disaster. Once the resource extraction is no longer of interest to big business taxpayer gets stuck holding the financial bag and nature gets screwed again.
Nobody throwing a line in that estuary as industry killed it off.
There should be a hefty security deposit for reclamation after they leave town but if nobody asks for that why would they bother.
It seems its the crazy right continuing to cause division, sure government should be doing better but the right wing lunatics are the ones denying reality and creating division. Industry and development are the causes of our problems 100%, government is responsible for this by not regulating them properly. Industry is definitely encroaching on their rights to hunt and industry is why wolves and lazy hunters and poachers have easy access to ungulates in areas they never would reach without the roads and massive cut blocks that allow the easy access. First nations in the area rely heavily on hunting for survival maybe its easy for you to go to the grocery store not so much for them living in remote areas and wanting to rely on their traditional ways of living. How do oil sites and pipelines help feed ungulates? wtf. Pipeline right of ways and oil sites require roads that make it easier for predators to access ungulates, it is the main driver or extinction for ungulates in bc. Cut blocks provide a balanced ecosystem? again wtf. Its not the 1700's anymore you're right its also not the 1950's anymore and first nations are not the problem and didn't cause the problems. Unchecked industry and development has ruined our province and recreational opportunities, racism and blaming those who lived here for 20,000 plus years without destroying the place wont fix anything or bring back recreational opportunities. If you are unaware the bc ndp is almost no different then the former liberal governments and extractive industry is still plugging along unchecked and they pay little concern for the environment or first nations rights.
walleyes
Well-Known Member
Taken directly from the manifesto.
Can we not walk and chew bubble gum? Too much to ask?
Industry has caused damage to salmon runs in particular (logging primarily) but also mining. To dispute this is wild.
Why can't we have a well-regulated industry with hefty fines for habitat destruction? Ensure that whatever damage needs to be done is done in a manner that doesn't significantly degrade wildlife/habitat (IE science focused). Thus, ensuring we still have access to the backcountry.
Need to acknowledge both sides. Clearly, industry has made great strides over the years, however, it still can be done much better. The Mount Polley disaster for example was not even 10 years ago.
Industry has caused damage to salmon runs in particular (logging primarily) but also mining. To dispute this is wild.
Why can't we have a well-regulated industry with hefty fines for habitat destruction? Ensure that whatever damage needs to be done is done in a manner that doesn't significantly degrade wildlife/habitat (IE science focused). Thus, ensuring we still have access to the backcountry.
Need to acknowledge both sides. Clearly, industry has made great strides over the years, however, it still can be done much better. The Mount Polley disaster for example was not even 10 years ago.
Some great comments on here.
I - like many others - have been involved in resource management for too many years - and seen the same patterns as described here.
In a perfect World - that we don't currently live in - there would be adequate directed regulations directing adequate and timely enforcement that is capable of regulating poor and excessive and greedy behaviour. And we would manage that resource locally from a ground-up governance model that has the goal of being able to harvest that resource indefinitely into the future for our kids and their kids into perpetuity. I think we could all agree with that scenario - except of course those whom are currently many miles away and don't have to live with the consequences of their actions and inactions - and instead line their own pockets for their own selfish short-term gain.
Corruption - let's call it what it is. Even tho we don't normally see it day in and day out as it happens following the briefcases in the halls of Ottawa or Calgary or elsewhere - or in the boardrooms where the CEOs get their pat on the back and their bonuses for making ever greater profits for whatever company they work for or for whatever party they donate to - we get to see the consequences on the ground - and live with those consequences - as do out future generations.
The only way to realistically change that MO is to change the governance model to one of a collective consensus-based model where the checks and balances are one whom the regulators live with. This was the model that FNs used to have and in are the process of slowly reclaiming and I acknowledge there is much fear about that change.
But the standard colonial model has also failed miserably. Look @ where we are at wrt fish stocks. Look @ what happened to the Atlantic cod and many other species on the East Coast that started that process a couple hundred years earlier than the West Coast. Look at the forestry impacts. Look at the mining impacts as mentioned previously on this thread by Terrin, Steeler, dradons and others. Greed is running the show and winning.
So how does one stop that? By whining about the FNs reclaiming a governance role within their own territories and then painting them as the enemy on order to stop effective collaboration & cooperation in local management? Is that an effective strategy to change our currently broken regulatory mechanism? Seems to me that a group of people that care about the future and also have to live with the long-term impacts might not be our real enemies.
Or you can remain unconnected and rant on in a fishing forum about those governance changes that are happening and will continue to happen - and see if that helps change anything wrt effective management. i think the effective choices are obvious but not necessarily easy @ the start. Carry-on...
I - like many others - have been involved in resource management for too many years - and seen the same patterns as described here.
In a perfect World - that we don't currently live in - there would be adequate directed regulations directing adequate and timely enforcement that is capable of regulating poor and excessive and greedy behaviour. And we would manage that resource locally from a ground-up governance model that has the goal of being able to harvest that resource indefinitely into the future for our kids and their kids into perpetuity. I think we could all agree with that scenario - except of course those whom are currently many miles away and don't have to live with the consequences of their actions and inactions - and instead line their own pockets for their own selfish short-term gain.
Corruption - let's call it what it is. Even tho we don't normally see it day in and day out as it happens following the briefcases in the halls of Ottawa or Calgary or elsewhere - or in the boardrooms where the CEOs get their pat on the back and their bonuses for making ever greater profits for whatever company they work for or for whatever party they donate to - we get to see the consequences on the ground - and live with those consequences - as do out future generations.
The only way to realistically change that MO is to change the governance model to one of a collective consensus-based model where the checks and balances are one whom the regulators live with. This was the model that FNs used to have and in are the process of slowly reclaiming and I acknowledge there is much fear about that change.
But the standard colonial model has also failed miserably. Look @ where we are at wrt fish stocks. Look @ what happened to the Atlantic cod and many other species on the East Coast that started that process a couple hundred years earlier than the West Coast. Look at the forestry impacts. Look at the mining impacts as mentioned previously on this thread by Terrin, Steeler, dradons and others. Greed is running the show and winning.
So how does one stop that? By whining about the FNs reclaiming a governance role within their own territories and then painting them as the enemy on order to stop effective collaboration & cooperation in local management? Is that an effective strategy to change our currently broken regulatory mechanism? Seems to me that a group of people that care about the future and also have to live with the long-term impacts might not be our real enemies.
Or you can remain unconnected and rant on in a fishing forum about those governance changes that are happening and will continue to happen - and see if that helps change anything wrt effective management. i think the effective choices are obvious but not necessarily easy @ the start. Carry-on...
Last edited:
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
My presentation to the Alberni Fish & Game Club went very well. Better than I had hoped for.
I will be sending along more information to them shortly, and helping design a template letter.
They are taking this matter to the Region One BCWF meeting soon as an urgent matter of discussion and action.
I would like to suggest that any who can attend the local Fish & Game Club meetings in your Community, and enlighten them on developments in this regard. If you need, I can and will provide a copy of what I presented last night.
Given the political atmosphere that is predominant in this community, it was a pleasant surprise.
I very much hope others will follow suit and inform their local clubs of what is occurring here...
Cheers,
Nog
I will be sending along more information to them shortly, and helping design a template letter.
They are taking this matter to the Region One BCWF meeting soon as an urgent matter of discussion and action.
I would like to suggest that any who can attend the local Fish & Game Club meetings in your Community, and enlighten them on developments in this regard. If you need, I can and will provide a copy of what I presented last night.
Given the political atmosphere that is predominant in this community, it was a pleasant surprise.
I very much hope others will follow suit and inform their local clubs of what is occurring here...
Cheers,
Nog
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
Their form of "consultation" is now up and running.
Log in with your BC FWID, scroll to the bottom and hit the OPPOSE Button.
apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca
This is nothing but the government using us as pawns and selling us out in order to continue, and actually escalate the industrial environmental damage being done in this area. Note there is zero mention of the increase in industrial permits these actions have and will allow going down the road, simply a focus on us - the low hanging fruit as it were. Also note than when the Province walked away with the related tentative agreement in hand, they immediately granted 193 more Industrial Permits within the area in question.
Hunting was not even mentioned in the court's proceedings and findings whatsoever.
Not acceptable.
Nog
Log in with your BC FWID, scroll to the bottom and hit the OPPOSE Button.
Close Peace Caribou Hunts and Reduce Peace Moose Hunts (Region-wide) | AHTE
This is nothing but the government using us as pawns and selling us out in order to continue, and actually escalate the industrial environmental damage being done in this area. Note there is zero mention of the increase in industrial permits these actions have and will allow going down the road, simply a focus on us - the low hanging fruit as it were. Also note than when the Province walked away with the related tentative agreement in hand, they immediately granted 193 more Industrial Permits within the area in question.
Hunting was not even mentioned in the court's proceedings and findings whatsoever.
Not acceptable.
Nog
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
A draft template letter to note your concerns:
Date
To (select your MLA here https://www.leg.bc.ca/learn-about-us/members ),
I am writing to express my extreme concerns regarding your Government’s response to losing the Yahey vs BC (Blueberry River FN decision) wherein the Supreme Court of BC found that the Blueberry River First Nation’s treaty rights to hunt, trap and fish in their territory have been breached by allowing industrial development in Blueberry’s territory at an extensive scale.
Instead of focusing on wildlife management and habitat restoration in the region, and addressing the impacts of industrial activities while providing support for on-the-ground actions that benefit wildlife and habitat in Treaty 8 territory, your government decided to engage in secret backroom deals with the intent of punishing hunters & other recreational users of the area in question.
There is nothing in the court proceedings, findings and decision that specified that resident hunters are or were a problem whatsoever.
The proposed outcome of those secret dealings is to reduce moose hunting opportunities by fifty percent in Region 7b, make most of the area a Limited Entry Hunting Zone, and to completely eliminate all caribou hunting with the Region. Additionally they propose to increase the Guide Outfitter’s share of the remaining quota up to twenty-five percent from the stand nine percent in BC, representing a drastic increase in their allocation and further reducing resident hunting opportunities. This represents wildlife management by social decree, and about as far from scientific management as you can possibly get.
Note that the Peace region has the highest density moose populations in the province. The province’s own data indicates hunting is sustainable and that licensed hunter harvest is extremely low. Caribou populations in the area are also noted as “stable or expanding”. There is no conservation rationale for your government’s approach. It has now become obvious that your Government is willing to negotiate licensed BC hunters’ and recreationists’ opportunities away in favor of Site C, logging, and oil and gas.
This is a an extremely unsettling move by your government, using hunters as pawns and selling them out in order to continue, and actually escalate the very kind of industrial environmental degradation and damage that was the heart of the court case itself. The fact that your party is willing to sacrifice our access and ability to feed our families simply so business can proceed as “normal” is unacceptable. It has come to my attention that after the tentative agreement was in hand, the NDP Government immediately granted over one hundred and ninety industrial permits within the area in question. That I consider both disingenuous and intolerable.
Given your Government’s stated drive to harmonize hunting seasons and numbers in all of Northern BC, we are expecting this same type of secret dealings will occur in Region Six and elsewhere. In fact the Tahltan have already stated they will make sure of that. They also noted the desire of government to harmonize the seasons for moose and caribou in Northern BC, suggesting they will also soon seek a cessation of caribou hunting and a gross reduction of moose harvests by resident hunters.
The Yahey vs BC (Blueberry River FN decision) was about industrial activity, not hunting, and it is extremely inappropriate to punish hunters for the cumulative effects of industrial activity.
The type of division these types of deals create will not help with your stated goals regarding Reconciliation, but rather further fan the flames of distrust and anger between Indigenous and Non Indigenous groups.
Reducing or stopping hunting will not restore fish, wildlife and habitat resources. That takes money and political will, not regulation changes.
The historical BC wildlife / habitat funding graph line is flat as it moves right, and has been for too many years. When adjusted for inflation and growth it actually represents a significant decline in available resources dedicated to properly managing these resources. That level of funding is beyond inadequate, and very much represents the fact we are “managing to zero” in this province.
Finally I would like to note that Together for Wildlife and the Ministers Wildlife Advisory Council were not consulted while the 7B caribou closure and moose reductions were being negotiated. Together for Wildlife and the Ministers Wildlife Advisory Council were briefed on the proposal last week when it was publicly presented. The Minister and her staff failed to follow the procedures that the NDP government itself has set out for wildlife decision making. Instead it strongly appears she simply acted unilaterally...
As a British Columbian, I am deeply concerned that the province is negotiating away opportunities for sustainable hunting instead of confronting the cumulative effects of unsustainable resource extraction.
I am writing you today to directly pose this question: Will you please confirm that you and your Government will act now to protect resident hunter access in Region Seven and beyond from this serious infringement? Further, I directly request an answer to this pressing query.
I am looking forward to your timely response.
Yours sincerely,
CC:
Premier John Horgan
( premier@gov.bc.ca )
PO BOX 9041 STN PROV GOVT VICTORIA, BC V8W 9E1
Katrine Conroy Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development
( FLNR.Minister@gov.bc.ca )
Room 248 Parliament Buildings
Victoria, BC V8V 1X4
Mike Farnworth Ministry of Public Safety & Solicitor General
(PSSG.Minister@gov.bc.ca )
PO Box 9282 Stn Prov Govt
Victoria BC V8W 9J7
Murray Rankin Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation
(IRR.Minister@gov.bc.ca)
Room 323 Parliament Buildings
Victoria, BC V8V 1X4
Nathan Cullen MLA for Stikine Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations & Chair of the Environment and Land Use Committee
nathan.cullen.MLA@leg.bc.ca
Room 027 Parliament Buildings
Victoria, BC V8V 1X4
Date
To (select your MLA here https://www.leg.bc.ca/learn-about-us/members ),
I am writing to express my extreme concerns regarding your Government’s response to losing the Yahey vs BC (Blueberry River FN decision) wherein the Supreme Court of BC found that the Blueberry River First Nation’s treaty rights to hunt, trap and fish in their territory have been breached by allowing industrial development in Blueberry’s territory at an extensive scale.
Instead of focusing on wildlife management and habitat restoration in the region, and addressing the impacts of industrial activities while providing support for on-the-ground actions that benefit wildlife and habitat in Treaty 8 territory, your government decided to engage in secret backroom deals with the intent of punishing hunters & other recreational users of the area in question.
There is nothing in the court proceedings, findings and decision that specified that resident hunters are or were a problem whatsoever.
The proposed outcome of those secret dealings is to reduce moose hunting opportunities by fifty percent in Region 7b, make most of the area a Limited Entry Hunting Zone, and to completely eliminate all caribou hunting with the Region. Additionally they propose to increase the Guide Outfitter’s share of the remaining quota up to twenty-five percent from the stand nine percent in BC, representing a drastic increase in their allocation and further reducing resident hunting opportunities. This represents wildlife management by social decree, and about as far from scientific management as you can possibly get.
Note that the Peace region has the highest density moose populations in the province. The province’s own data indicates hunting is sustainable and that licensed hunter harvest is extremely low. Caribou populations in the area are also noted as “stable or expanding”. There is no conservation rationale for your government’s approach. It has now become obvious that your Government is willing to negotiate licensed BC hunters’ and recreationists’ opportunities away in favor of Site C, logging, and oil and gas.
This is a an extremely unsettling move by your government, using hunters as pawns and selling them out in order to continue, and actually escalate the very kind of industrial environmental degradation and damage that was the heart of the court case itself. The fact that your party is willing to sacrifice our access and ability to feed our families simply so business can proceed as “normal” is unacceptable. It has come to my attention that after the tentative agreement was in hand, the NDP Government immediately granted over one hundred and ninety industrial permits within the area in question. That I consider both disingenuous and intolerable.
Given your Government’s stated drive to harmonize hunting seasons and numbers in all of Northern BC, we are expecting this same type of secret dealings will occur in Region Six and elsewhere. In fact the Tahltan have already stated they will make sure of that. They also noted the desire of government to harmonize the seasons for moose and caribou in Northern BC, suggesting they will also soon seek a cessation of caribou hunting and a gross reduction of moose harvests by resident hunters.
The Yahey vs BC (Blueberry River FN decision) was about industrial activity, not hunting, and it is extremely inappropriate to punish hunters for the cumulative effects of industrial activity.
The type of division these types of deals create will not help with your stated goals regarding Reconciliation, but rather further fan the flames of distrust and anger between Indigenous and Non Indigenous groups.
Reducing or stopping hunting will not restore fish, wildlife and habitat resources. That takes money and political will, not regulation changes.
The historical BC wildlife / habitat funding graph line is flat as it moves right, and has been for too many years. When adjusted for inflation and growth it actually represents a significant decline in available resources dedicated to properly managing these resources. That level of funding is beyond inadequate, and very much represents the fact we are “managing to zero” in this province.
Finally I would like to note that Together for Wildlife and the Ministers Wildlife Advisory Council were not consulted while the 7B caribou closure and moose reductions were being negotiated. Together for Wildlife and the Ministers Wildlife Advisory Council were briefed on the proposal last week when it was publicly presented. The Minister and her staff failed to follow the procedures that the NDP government itself has set out for wildlife decision making. Instead it strongly appears she simply acted unilaterally...
As a British Columbian, I am deeply concerned that the province is negotiating away opportunities for sustainable hunting instead of confronting the cumulative effects of unsustainable resource extraction.
I am writing you today to directly pose this question: Will you please confirm that you and your Government will act now to protect resident hunter access in Region Seven and beyond from this serious infringement? Further, I directly request an answer to this pressing query.
I am looking forward to your timely response.
Yours sincerely,
CC:
Premier John Horgan
( premier@gov.bc.ca )
PO BOX 9041 STN PROV GOVT VICTORIA, BC V8W 9E1
Katrine Conroy Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development
( FLNR.Minister@gov.bc.ca )
Room 248 Parliament Buildings
Victoria, BC V8V 1X4
Mike Farnworth Ministry of Public Safety & Solicitor General
(PSSG.Minister@gov.bc.ca )
PO Box 9282 Stn Prov Govt
Victoria BC V8W 9J7
Murray Rankin Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation
(IRR.Minister@gov.bc.ca)
Room 323 Parliament Buildings
Victoria, BC V8V 1X4
Nathan Cullen MLA for Stikine Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations & Chair of the Environment and Land Use Committee
nathan.cullen.MLA@leg.bc.ca
Room 027 Parliament Buildings
Victoria, BC V8V 1X4
Last edited:
SpringFever552
Well-Known Member
So to be clear? , you have admitted on a public forum to be part of the issue? ,being in your words "resource management for far too many yrs", and here we are?
Do you honestly think the 1st nations of this province/ country are going to go back to "the way it was before contact"?
They don't and can't, they are as greedy as any multinational corp you complain about here on an hourly bases, open your eyes.
We do not live in a perfect world, never will, never have, look whats happening around the world.
How do we stop it? You seem to have all the answers AND in resource management for far too many yrs? ..but here we are, and its going to only get worse with UNDRIP being forced down everyone's throats, or up our a$$
I think we are all part of the issue - as well as (I hope) part of any solution(s), SF. I think it is likely we all would agree that DFO's internal collusion and corruption and lack of accountability on the top end has helped exasperate many of the compounded issues and that a new model of resource management is long overdue - as is a drastic overhaul of DFO. Many, many sad examples Canada-wide of those legacies that are only getting worse over time - incl. most recently Pacific salmon.
About '97 or so I had enuff experience and interaction with DFO to understand how it works and see how helpless and ineffective their entrenched and dysfunctional system was (apologies to a few departments and individuals within the front end of DFO that are doing what they can with what they have - including stock assessment and C&P).
So I started thinking about that time - what other likely successful governance/regulatory options are out there to mitigate and minimize the influence of the unaccountable mandarins and crooks @ the top end of DFO. The only answer that I could see (and this view hasn't changed but only gotten stronger; the "far too many yrs" comment) was a bottom-up accountable locally-based twinned governance/regulatory process that could take over from DFO which meant it had to be constitutionally-protected.
Enter s. 35 of the Constitution Act and Hereditary systems.
I understand there is quite a bit of fear out there about change - but frankly I see no other viable options.
And no - nobody is expecting for all of us (FNs & settler descendants) to "go back to the way it was before contact", but rather what does a successful governance/regulatory process that has legal teeth enuff to take over from DFO look like?
You are right - We do not live in a perfect world, & never will - but that doesn't mean to me we should all give-up, neither.
Thanks for the respectful dialogue, SF.
About '97 or so I had enuff experience and interaction with DFO to understand how it works and see how helpless and ineffective their entrenched and dysfunctional system was (apologies to a few departments and individuals within the front end of DFO that are doing what they can with what they have - including stock assessment and C&P).
So I started thinking about that time - what other likely successful governance/regulatory options are out there to mitigate and minimize the influence of the unaccountable mandarins and crooks @ the top end of DFO. The only answer that I could see (and this view hasn't changed but only gotten stronger; the "far too many yrs" comment) was a bottom-up accountable locally-based twinned governance/regulatory process that could take over from DFO which meant it had to be constitutionally-protected.
Enter s. 35 of the Constitution Act and Hereditary systems.
I understand there is quite a bit of fear out there about change - but frankly I see no other viable options.
And no - nobody is expecting for all of us (FNs & settler descendants) to "go back to the way it was before contact", but rather what does a successful governance/regulatory process that has legal teeth enuff to take over from DFO look like?
You are right - We do not live in a perfect world, & never will - but that doesn't mean to me we should all give-up, neither.
Thanks for the respectful dialogue, SF.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
there giving the natives the woods, so they can keep the cash cows (the cities).
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
I might suggest shelving the what if's and what could be fantasies long enough to address the survey linked above, and send out a letter or three.
Hell of a lot better chance of making a difference than waxing pontifically on the Forum don't you think?
Nog
Hell of a lot better chance of making a difference than waxing pontifically on the Forum don't you think?
Nog
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
More interesting developments:
Together for Wildlife and the Ministers Wildlife Advisory Council were not consulted while the 7B caribou closure and moose reduction was being negotiated.
Together for Wildlife and the Ministers Wildlife Advisory Council were briefed on the proposal last week when it was publicly presented.
The Minister and her staff failed to follow the procedure that the NDP government itself has set out for wildlife decision making.
Instead she simply acted unilaterally...
Together for Wildlife and the Ministers Wildlife Advisory Council were not consulted while the 7B caribou closure and moose reduction was being negotiated.
Together for Wildlife and the Ministers Wildlife Advisory Council were briefed on the proposal last week when it was publicly presented.
The Minister and her staff failed to follow the procedure that the NDP government itself has set out for wildlife decision making.
Instead she simply acted unilaterally...
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
A little incentive for the fence sitters was added today...
"as some incentive/reward for actually exercising our voices. I put together a giveaway from Kifaru, Mike Jones knife & tool, tyto, mtngear and a few other that are confirming what they are sending. It’s on our home page www.wildernesslocals.net
if you’ve already opposed this like everyone here so far. Go ahead and just click. You can still enter. Trying to create more buzz for those on the fence / a little lazy."
Hope more realize it is time to stand up for ourselves NOW!
Nog
"as some incentive/reward for actually exercising our voices. I put together a giveaway from Kifaru, Mike Jones knife & tool, tyto, mtngear and a few other that are confirming what they are sending. It’s on our home page www.wildernesslocals.net
if you’ve already opposed this like everyone here so far. Go ahead and just click. You can still enter. Trying to create more buzz for those on the fence / a little lazy."
Hope more realize it is time to stand up for ourselves NOW!
Nog
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