ATTENTION: JOIN THE WAR ON FISHFARMING!

quote:Originally posted by sockeyefry

I agree with Milligan. I have not read anything in these posts which I would classify as anything other than someone's opinion. It is for this reason that the legal system has cross examination. It prevents an opinion from becoming fact. And as for your suggestion that he go away and read up on this issue, I would challenge you all to do the same.

http://www.watershed-watch.org/publications/files/WWSS_Sea_Lice_Report.pdf
Please read this report. Go to page 8 where it describes how our future has already happened in European countries. COMPLEATE COLLAPSE OF WILD SEA TROUT IN WATERSHEDS NEXT TO FISHFARMS. Also, to add to Patches point on farm food. Don't forget about the tonnes of krill netted out of Georgia Straight and herring which directly competes with wild salmon as well as all wild fish/animals.
 
quote:Originally posted by Sager01

Hi Gimp;

Nimo had mentioned that Norway has 'closed containment'.

Unfortunately, the attachment you provide is to a system that is not 'close' contained. Apprently, this trial (which hasn't been built yet?) simply pumps water into a solid walled system, collects about 40% of the fish poop, while the remaining poop and all the water poors over the top. This doesn't qualify (in my mind anyways) as 'closed' containment.



I also understand that the environmental impacts from the pumps required to move saltwater aren't too 'eco' friendly.

So, I keep hearing about 'closed' containment, but I have not been shown this system yet.

http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/fisheries/technology/agrimarine.htm

sorry try this one and can you answer my first post please thanks Im sure you can do the math
 
quote:Originally posted by patches

o.k its just not about the lice though guys . the impact of the world loss of energy feeding farm fish make it unsustainable.for a lb of farm fish there is a loss. plus where do you think the food comes from?.it ''comes from the ocean'' they will say .ok....then where? it comes from country's in South America where the mercury levels are so high...and the environment is so polluted. they catch and grind up all the shrimp crabs fish ..but mostly bottom feeding animals at the bottom eating high levels of mercury. then we put that dry pellet into the ecosystem ...it gets digested , **** out ,and then gets bio accumulates into the ecosystem by bacteria that converts it into an organic form called methylmercury...if you check any long term site or even a hatchery with a silty area below you will find high levels of mercury. if it does not get wash away where nobody sees..


and then there is the medications that could cause a coast wide collapse of the fishery.....but first any body know any more about the feed they would like to add ?
I can talk about this **** for hrs.
but why.. like chis73 said ...why talk about it...actions speak louder than words!once you see the hole picture ...
a power plant at the top!
a tree farm in the middle!
and a farm at the mouth!
its shameful.. "why spend money on wild salmon" is what they think...
"then its the peoples and not ours"...

and it all goes to the highest bidding corporation from another country .
makes me ashamed of my government and how they sold out my children's resources....

I so agree with you

So what happens these norwegian fish farmers play the finger pointing game (Ie) look at Alaska they are salmon ranching and those salmon are eating our salmonoids wild food. So it must be there money backing the enviro's When the alantics that they raise are eating food from a foodchain from what South America. So when they leave the lights on in the net pens and the pink salmon smolt are swiming in and out of the nets they don't get eaten also RIGHT? Whats the diffrence?!?!?!?!?! If you don't see the tree fall then did it really fall?
 
quote:Originally posted by gimp

http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/fisheries/technology/agrimarine.htm

sorry try this one and can you answer my first post please thanks Im sure you can do the math

Unfortunately the link you have provided is an experiment that failed. It is now out of business. Sorry to make you work so hard, but when someone says 'Norway has moved to closed containment', I assumed they actually had an example.

What was your first post, I'd be happy to do the math.
 
Sager: Just because nobody sends you the info straight to your mailing address doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Here's something to start because you seem a little lazy to do your own homework:

THE SILFURSTJARNAN FISH FARM
The Silfurstjarnan fish farm is a land-based system where fish are reared in a number of individual tanks of various sizes. Construction began during the autumn of 1988. Building of the fish tanks was more or less completed a year later. A small hatchery for arctic char was built elsewhere in Öxarfjördur in the same year. At the hatchery, artesian cold and hot waters from springs or drill holes are used. The temperature can be adjusted to increase or reduce the fish growth, which is important in order to secure delivery of the same size fish product throughout the year. Early on, the company hired an additional hatchery for salmon in S-Iceland with similar conditions. Now, the salmon smolt is bought from Stofnfiskur Ltd., where a breeding research programme based on Norwegian stocks has produced the best salmon stock in Iceland for fish farming. The main fish farm now consists of the following utilities (Figure 3):

Freshwater supply Seawater supply
Warm water supply Aeration system
Oxygenation system Tank rearing system
Effluent/filtering system Feeding system
Monitoring/control and Electrical supply and emergency
alarm system back-up system
Fish handling and Fish processing and packing plant
grading system

Water is pumped from the boreholes by downhole submersed pumps of 80 - 300 l/s capacity. Seawater is pumped by standard horizontal centrifugal pumps of 125 l/s each. Pumping head is variable, generally in the range of 20 -30 m. Presently, about 700 l/s of seawater are mixed with about 700 - 800 l/s of cold groundwater and 100 - 200 l/s of warm water, yielding a total of 1500 - 1600 l/s (5400 - 5700 m3/h) for the main fish farm of the Silfurstjarnan Ltd. in Öxarfjördur. Electricity cost is high; at present, about 800 kW are required. The fish farm is equipped with two reserve diesel engines, both with the capacity to produce 750 kW in case of electrical failure.


A schematic diagram of the Silfurstjarnan Ltd. Fish farm in Öxarfjördur, NE-Iceland.

Whereas, only about 10% of the water resources are of geothermal origin, a cascaded usage of the warm water is of interest. The hottest water (35 - 37°C) is first used for domestic heating in the floors of the fish farm. For heating the houses, only a minor addition of heat from external sources is required, now provided by geothermal water from well AE-3. The hot water pipes then extend into a dense pipeline network in concrete pavement between the outdoor fish tanks, where it serves for snow-melting before being mixed with the water used for the fish.

Water is connected to the farm through several mains, made of PEH plastic pipes. On arrival to the farm, the three basic water types (cold/fresh, warm/geothermal and cold/sea water) are mixed in different ways to suit the different fish sizes/types. Before the mixtures are admitted to the tanks, de-aeration/aeration takes place in order to equalize nitrogen, which otherwise would reach supersaturation due to the mixing with warm water. Nitrogen in supersaturation may kill fish. Following de-aeration, water flows by gravity to the tanks. Flow rate to each tank is adjusted by valves to suit the respective biomass; this being primarily governed by the oxygen needs, but also by other factors such as CO2 level, self-rinsing of fish excrements and food leftovers, suitable water velocities for proper swimming exercise, etc.

In nature, fish is generally offered oxygen saturated waters. In tank farming, this is not possible, and certainly not without separate oxygenation. Since oxygen is the key factor, total water pumping can be reduced if oxygen levels, and thereby, reducing stress which again improves fish health and growth rate. The oxygen is partially produced on site by molecular sieves and partially bought liquified in bottles. The oxygen generating plant has a total capacity of 70.8 Nm3/h. The oxygen is introduced to the tank water mainly by pressure injection in the water supply prior to admittance to the tank. The principle behind is the following. The pressure on part of the water to the tank is increased by sending the water through a narrow port by an extra pump. The 2-in. port is at a top of a fiberglass cone with a 1.2-m diameter at the bottom. The water is released into the cone and oxygen blended into it at the top. With the pressure fail the water and oxygen mix. The water is then led from the cone into the tank through a 110-mm plastic pipe with a minimum length of 18 m to ensure complete mixing. In some of the smaller tanks, the oxygen is introduced by defusers at the bottom. The complete mixing of the oxygen in the water is of major importance for the optimal growth of the fish.

The tanks are circular, different in diameter and depth, from few m3 in volume up to some 1500 m3, the smaller tanks generally used for fingerlings and the biggest for fish in the 1 - 5 kg size. The smaller tanks are made of fiberglass; whereas, the bigger ones are assembled from precasted concrete elements, held together by tensional steel cable girths and surrounding soil (Figure 4). Installed fish tank capacity at present is about 15,000 m3 in the mail plant; but, additional tanks are under construction.


Some of the larger fish tanks at Silfurstjarnan fish farm (photo by G. Ó. Fridleifsson).

By introducing the inlet water from the oxygen injectors in a tangential direction and at variable rates with depth, water movement is optimized in order to provide a suitable swimming velocity and also a self-rinsing effect, where the bottom velocity is high enough as to sweep fish excrements towards the centrally located outlet, without stirring up the water. Tank effluent flows by gravity through traditional sewage piping system towards a settling pond, where the bulk of fish excrements and food leftovers settle for periodic removal. From the settling pond, effluent is channelled to the nearby Jökulsá glacial river.

Fish feed, partly made on site from fish trash, fish oil, vitamins and binding agents, and partly purchased ready-made, is dispersed in the form of pellets over the water level. Pellet size is chosen to suit fish size. About 85% of the feeding is automatic through feeders programmed to feed the fish at proper rate and at selected times of the day. The remaining 15% is done by hand depending on the appetite of the fish, which varies with weather and daylight, preferably at sunrise and sunset. Thus, it is possible to maximize the growth rate of the fish and at the same time, decrease the feed waste and water pollution.

Fish are transported from the smaller tanks to the bigger ones as size increases, usually every two months. This is done by a special fish pump which is basically a pressure vessel connected to the tank in question by a flexible tube. The vessel is then subjected to vacuum; whereby, water and fish will eventually fill it. Then the process is reversed, the vessel is now pressurized, a suction valve closes and a discharge valve opens for flow in the discharge tube, through which the fish is piped to a second tank, generally passing through a fish grader, or if the time is right, towards the finals at the processing plant. The graders are connected directly to computers, thus ensuring automatic control on the fish growth. The tanks are cleaned thoroughly before smaller fish are put into them again. One of the advantages of the 90°C hot water provided by the Öxarfjördur Heating Services is in rinsing and disinfecting.

The fish processing plant is 450 m2, including the offices of the Silfurstjarnan Ltd. Here the fish are slaughtered, gutted and processed (filet) for the needs of the different customers and packed with ice in styrofoam boxes before being sent to the markets. The ice is produced at the site.

Emergency alarms are connected to the most sensitive parameters for the fish to avoid accidents. Oxygen levels in the outlet water from each tank are monitored continuously, raising alarm if the values deviate out of present boundaries. Alarms are connected to the water system indicating if pumps go out. Every oxygen pressure injector is monitored contin-uously and the alarm is raised if it is not working properly. Finally, the temperature of the inlet water to the tanks is monitored raising alarm if it becomes too high.

THE PRODUCTION OF THE SILFURSTJARNAN LTD.
Two main species have been raised from the beginning: Atlantic salmon (Salmo Salar) and arctic char (Salvelinus Alpinus). The farming temperature is kept more or less constant the year around and accordingly, the demand for hot water diminishes during summers. The optimal temperature for salmon are at 8 - 10°C varying with size (Figure 5). The arctic char starts in colder water, 6°C, but is later on reared in the same 10°C water. It is worth mentioning that a small number of arctic char is kept in the tanks with the salmon (7% of the total fish number). In this form of cohabitation, the arctic charr lies at the bottom and lives mainly on leftover fish feed. Thus, the waste of fish feed is minimized. The salinity of the farming water is kept constant throughout the year at about 10 - 12 ppt (Figure 5), which is an increase from the 8 -10 ppt salinity used before. The increased salinity is one of the factors that has allowed steadily increased biomass per m3. The process from hatch to the market takes 30 - 35 months. Average weight of the salmon product is now close to 4 kg gutted weight (gutted and in some cases, filet fish), and the arctic charr product is about 1 kg. Hitherto, the plant has been free of any kind of fish disease, which to some extent relates to the superb water quality for fish farming. So far, not a single dose of medicine has been used. The fish is slaugh-tered four times a week, about 50 weeks a year (Figure 6).


A schematic layout of conditions and fish growth at Silfurstjarnan Ltd.


Slaughtering of fully grown salmon in the processing plant (photo by G. Ó. Fridlefsson).

Presently, the annual production is 900 - 950 tonnes or 50 - 60 kg/m3, which is a record production. Of this, salmon is about 80%. The steadily increasing production strongly relates to the stability in reari[blue]ng conditions that can be held due to the geothermal energy, which the siting of the fish farm was based on. Not only the temperature control, but also the purity of the groundwater and the salinity control are of fundamental importance to that can be added successful experiments in increasing the oxygen level in the farming water. These optimal growing conditions are manifested in various ways, such as the exceptionally high yield where only 1.05 kg of fish feed are needed to produce 1.00 kg of salmon. These figures do not include the arctic char kept with the salmon (about 2% of the fish weight in the tanks).

Marketing is done by the company itself. About 90% of the product is exported, mainly as a fresh fish product; but, some is marketed smoked. Most of the customers make use of the fish farm's capability of delivering the same size of fish in similar quantity throughout the year. Despite fierce competition, this has resulted in fairly high prices for the product, which in turn directly relates to the use of geothermal water.

The transport of fresh fish to the markets in America and Europe needs to be quick, and therefore, most of the product is exported by air. From slaughtering in this remote fish farm in NE-Iceland to the markets, the iced and packed product is driven about 700 km by trucks overnight to Keflavik airport in SW-Iceland, to be air-freighted to the markets the same day. The whole process only requiring about 1.5 days, up to 3 days at the most.


Or here where the Norwegians claim that they can export land-based technology:

http://www.norway.org/News/archive/1997/199705fish.htm
 
A sea-friendly way to farm fish
Salmon in closed containers won't interfere with natural stocks

The Province


Sunday, February 24, 2008



CREDIT: Les Bazso -- the Province
Richard Buchanan holds a piece of the fibreglass composite used to build closed tanks for a fish farm opening in May.


CREDIT: Les Bazso - The Province
Richard Buchanan holds a piece of the fibreglass composite used to build closed tanks for a fish farm opening in May.

Closed containers are the wave of the future when it comes to farming salmon, according to AgriMarine Industries.

After successful tryouts in prototype closed containers, Campbell River-based AgriMarine will unveil its first full-size farm in May.

CEO Richard Buchanan says the containers are made of a laminated fibreglass that's used for Arctic rescue vessels and high-end yachts.

"It's stronger than steel but lighter than aluminum," he said.

"We originally thought we'd use aluminum, but there were corrosion issues, and the fibreglass is actually lighter." The closed containers recirculate sea water once per hour, keeping the fish swimming against the man-made current and making for leaner flesh, Buchanan said.

It takes about 14 months until the Chinook salmon are big enough to harvest.

At that point, fish farmers sieve out the most mature fish for harvesting and leave smaller fry to fatten up before sending them to market.

"It's a seine net, just like you'd have on the ocean," said Buchanan, an engineer who has 26 years' experience in the agriculture, aquaculture and fisheries industries.

"We've got rollers [that] will take the largest fish, and the others go back in the containers, just like a big sieve." Traditional sea-based fish farms create giant piles of excrement. Sea-lice infestations not only damage farmed fish but can spread to wild salmon stocks.

Buchanan claims that with closed containers the excrement will drop to the bottom of the containers, where it can be neutralized, composted and treated to minimize environmental effects before the water is recirculated into the ocean.

According to a confidential information memorandum provided by the company, plans are afoot to test the full-size technology at Middle Bay near Campbell River, then export the technology worldwide.

"With success from its Middle Bay Project, the company is planning to deploy the instalment of the systems and implementation of the business model worldwide," the document says.

"The company is working with the Chinese government and has selected sites for its solid-wall containment systems in fresh-water and marine environments, for the production of economically and ecologically sustainable fresh fish in China." Fish farming has been controversial in Canada. Responding to public controversy, a moratorium on new fish farms was instituted in this province.

AgriMarine clearly looks forward to a less-regulated environment in China.

"In B.C., there are certain regulatory requirements pertaining to the siting of salmon farms," the company document says.

"In comparison, there are fewer regulations on fish farming in China, and the government is encouraging environmentally sustainable technologies for rearing fin fish in clean mountain reservoirs.

"The company's operations in China are expected to result in significantly lower costs as compared to its Middle Bay operations." Closed containers are considered to be one of the most palatable ways to increase fish farming without upsetting natural fish stocks and environmentalists.

There are currently several ways to operate fish farms: n A system such as AgriMarine's prototype, with closed containers in the ocean.

n A land-based sea-water system, with closed containers on land circulating ocean water drawn from the nearby sea.

n A land-based fresh-water system, arguably the preferred solution, with closed containers on land that circulate fresh water, eliminating opportunities for sea-lice infection.

© The Vancouver Province 2008


Wondering how they could be out of buisness when this was printed Sunday, February 24, 2008
let me know where you are getting your information from PLEASE it is much easier to carry on a disscution with someone when they post where they are getting there facts from. It is easy for a poster to just say o ya they went out of buisness and that failed lets see the proof. I know they were bought out or there was a roomer that they were bought out by AXEA Energy Inc.

posted
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...principal-agrimarine-industries_423464_9.html

Jan 3 2008


AXEA Energy Inca capital pool company as defined under Policy 2.4 of the TSX Venture Exchange (the "TSX-V"), is pleased to announce that it has entered into an agreement dated December 31, 2007, (the "Letter Agreement"), for the arm's length acquisition of 100% of the common shares of Agrimarine Industries Inc. ("Agrimarine"), a company incorporated under the laws of British Columbia. Pursuant to the terms of the Letter Agreement and subject to completion of satisfactory due diligence and receipt of all necessary regulatory and TSX-V approvals, the proposed acquisition of Agrimarine will qualify as AXEA's "Qualifying Transaction" as defined in TSX-V Policy 2.4. In connection with this proposed transaction, AXEA has provided Agrimarine with a cash advance of $25,000.

Agrimarine is a private company located in Campbell River, British Columbia which has developed the world's first marine based commercially scalable, environmentally sustainable, closed-containment fish farming technology. This technology, which can be readily implemented worldwide through joint venture partnerships and license agreements within the aquaculture industry, will support the emerging demand by retailers and food service outlets for ecologically and economically sustainable fresh fish.

MY MATH QUESTON IS POSTED on page 15 please feel free to read it
 
the facts are this:
-there is not one example of farms coexisting with wild stock.
-if they fix the containment, then there are all kinds of issues to deal with after that.
-we need to fix our watersheds and stop wiping out salmon stock.
-we need to take control of the water so it is clean for our kids.
to all who think different....well...it is not only the wild salmon of our coast that you are driving to extinction. [xx(]
 
Howdy,

Patches: You are on the money man.

I find myself asking the same question over and over again: How many millions of wild salmon could our natural water-sheds, rivers and streams produce every year if our fuggin' government got as excited about committing the resources to riving the WILD component of the resource as they do about fishfarming?

How many?

Cheers,
Terry
 
http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=acf039da79&attid=0.1&disp=inline&view=att&th=118847ef2f66b61a

heres a little project our family has been giving a bunch of money a year to to help the areas silver salmon run and also the chum and pink runs in the area try and come back. The pink salmon numbers are not here. I will be trying to get them to post but, I can tell you that the scott cove hatchery will not be open this year because they had 0 and I repeat ZERO spawners come back to the river last year. wonder what killed them all off ????????? the water shead has been fixed the spawning beds are fixed but no salmon reutrned =(
 
Has anyone here ever visited a salmon farm?
Has anyone here ever been involved with the culture of salmon?
Has anyone here even attempted to find out for themselves actually what they are discussing at such a great length?
The fact that you become so emoptional and seem ready to destroy something of which you have little if any first hand knowledge and this is based solely on the opinions of others is down right scary.
None of the information sources indicated are anything more than someones editorial opinion printed on the internet. There is not much truth in any of these articles. Did you all forget Alexandra Morton's declaration in 2005 that if the Pink run recovered in 06, she would quit and go back to whale research? Well guess what, the run recovered, and she did not live up to her vow. She and all the other NGO's seem to have forgotten that little tidbit, and are hoping you all have also
 
Thank god she didn't quit and is still dedicated to her noble goal - revealing the truth about ruthless businesses in form of open pen fish farms. And yes, I have seen my share of fish farms. What about you, sockeyefry? What do you know that makes you feel so appalled by the truth? Feeling some pressure? Good! :D
 
Howdy,

S-fry: You should run for government!

The science has been in on the net-pen business for years now. And in case you missed it - while your head was wedged up your butt - the industry sucks big time.

But not to worry, I will see to it that part of the Alliance's agenda also includes recommendations to government to re-train and re-educate displaced fish-farm workers - like yourself.

We Alliance people are not heartless bastards; we are simply acting in the best interests of our wild salmon,where our pathetic government has failed - miserably.

Best wishes to you and your future.

Cheers,
Terry Anderson

Wild Salmon Alliance
 
Little Hawk,

I think it is you who should take your head out of your butt. Thank you for the typical response to a contradictory point of view. Ridicule is the weapon of choice when you have little fact to back up your position.

How can you be so supportive of a person who has gone back on her word. What else has she said which is untrue? She is the antithesis of a scientist. She is in fact acting like a lawyer. Lawyers start with what they want a conclusion to be: ie a gulity or not guilty verdict, then they build their case for whichever they desire, and ignore the information which does not support their case.

It amazes me that you can reduce the entire pacific coast salmon ecosystem and the problems within to a few fish farms. Usually when you reduce a complex bioloigical problem to one single root cause I will guarantee you that you are wrong.

Does it not alarm you that by focusing too much on the farms, that you ignore the real problems?

I guess you guys would not be interested about the recent article out of Washington State that indicated how salmon farms actually improve the environment in which they sit, by providing structure and cover for a variety of organisms. Nor would you be interested in the fact that some of the best fishing is found around salmon farms, both for Lobsters on the East Coast, and prawns out here. Of course the guys that have discovered this don't really share that info.

I would suggest that rather than trying to run the salmon farmers out of town, sports fishing groups should work with the farmers, much like Ducks Unlimited (I'm sure you have heard of them?) There are several industry groups, and every company has people employed to work with the public.
 
quote:Originally posted by sockeyefry

Little Hawk,

I think it is you who should take your head out of your butt. Thank you for the typical response to a contradictory point of view. Ridicule is the weapon of choice when you have little fact to back up your position.

How can you be so supportive of a person who has gone back on her word. What else has she said which is untrue? She is the antithesis of a scientist. She is in fact acting like a lawyer. Lawyers start with what they want a conclusion to be: ie a gulity or not guilty verdict, then they build their case for whichever they desire, and ignore the information which does not support their case.

It amazes me that you can reduce the entire pacific coast salmon ecosystem and the problems within to a few fish farms. Usually when you reduce a complex bioloigical problem to one single root cause I will guarantee you that you are wrong.

Does it not alarm you that by focusing too much on the farms, that you ignore the real problems?

I guess you guys would not be interested about the recent article out of Washington State that indicated how salmon farms actually improve the environment in which they sit, by providing structure and cover for a variety of organisms. Nor would you be interested in the fact that some of the best fishing is found around salmon farms, both for Lobsters on the East Coast, and prawns out here. Of course the guys that have discovered this don't really share that info.

I would suggest that rather than trying to run the salmon farmers out of town, sports fishing groups should work with the farmers, much like Ducks Unlimited (I'm sure you have heard of them?) There are several industry groups, and every company has people employed to work with the public.

I find it humourous how the farm supporters continually use POLITICAL TACTICS to defend themselvs. DISCREDIT people like Alexandra Morton to cast a shadow of doubt. But when it is brought up that Fishfarms have been PROVEN to distroy ecosystems and endronomous fish in Europe, they generally sit back and shut up. Why? because the distruction has already happened over there. You guys always focus on Alexandra, do you honestly think if she stopped the fight that everyone else would just roll over and move on? I don't think so.
Also, who here is reducing the entire pacific coast salmon ecosystem and the problems within to a few fish farms? The people here are simply chosing to fight one of the biggest threats. Who knows, once the farms are gone, maybe the group fights other threats or turns its resources to habitat restoration. Claiming that prawns and lobsters being attracted to uneaten fish food and fish crap is a sign that farms improve the environment is laughable. Big surprise, prawns are attrated to to fish pellets and Detrius!(rolls eyes)How is creating an unnatural situation improving the environment? This is simply another POLITICAL TACTIC, use the media to deliver doubt to the voting public.
FWIW, I have been on fishfarms including Lois lake and have seen with my own eyes the amount of escaped fish in that lake.
 
Sockeyefry; your comments are so shallow and your arguments so amusingly ridiculous that I don't even respond to this. One thing though - please read the threads thoroughly - you are missing key points that have been clearly stated.
 
CR, Chris 73

Name me the ecosystems in Europe that have been destroyed by salmon farms alone. Oh look I'm not sitting back or shutting up. Can't name any? That's because ther are none.

Just because you do not like the kind of habitat created does not mean that it is not as good or some how less of a habitat.

To say that Fish farms are the biggest threat to the existence of the Pacific salmon is laughable. There are many salmon stocks which have never seen a farm, and are in trouble. Stop making excuses for poor management of the resource. The total acreage covered by salmon farms is less than the tarmac of the Vancouver airport.

I have read the threads, and am responding to them. I do not think that resorting to insults is any way to have a discussion. I am merely pointing out that there maybe another side which you refuse to even acknoledge. The fish farming industry has made giant strides in the last 15 years toward sustainability, yet it is defiled by the same people serving up the same exagerated opinions. These arguments against salmon farming were formulated over 30 years ago. They were as false then as they are now.

Salmon farming depends on having a clean environment, and in order to continue to farm, they must maintain that environment. Farm leases are very hard to come by, therefore they must really take care of the ones they have, because the liklihood of getting a new one should is very slim.

Most of the publications you have cited have been written with an agenda, and are not scientific in nature. There has been no "cross examination" to ensure whether they are legit or not.

It is unfortunate that you find my arguments ridiculous, because you are missing the real point.
 
quote:Originally posted by sockeyefry

CR, Chris 73

Name me the ecosystems in Europe that have been destroyed by salmon farms alone. Oh look I'm not sitting back or shutting up. Can't name any? That's because ther are none.

Just because you do not like the kind of habitat created does not mean that it is not as good or some how less of a habitat.

To say that Fish farms are the biggest threat to the existence of the Pacific salmon is laughable. There are many salmon stocks which have never seen a farm, and are in trouble. Stop making excuses for poor management of the resource. The total acreage covered by salmon farms is less than the tarmac of the Vancouver airport.

I have read the threads, and am responding to them. I do not think that resorting to insults is any way to have a discussion. I am merely pointing out that there maybe another side which you refuse to even acknoledge. The fish farming industry has made giant strides in the last 15 years toward sustainability, yet it is defiled by the same people serving up the same exagerated opinions. These arguments against salmon farming were formulated over 30 years ago. They were as false then as they are now.

Salmon farming depends on having a clean environment, and in order to continue to farm, they must maintain that environment. Farm leases are very hard to come by, therefore they must really take care of the ones they have, because the liklihood of getting a new one should is very slim.

Most of the publications you have cited have been written with an agenda, and are not scientific in nature. There has been no "cross examination" to ensure whether they are legit or not.

It is unfortunate that you find my arguments ridiculous, because you are missing the real point.

If you have read them all then you have read my math figures about how many sealice the farms in the BA produce I WANNA SEE YOU COMMENT ON THAT. The fact is viner sound has been fixed and thousands upon thousands of dollars have been spent to repair and rehab spawning grounds rearing hatchery salmon as feed to bring back the silver populations and such just to see the sealice epidemic in the area kill what we have been working on for 10 years go to ****. Everytime I get close to a fish farm in the BA they send out a boat and tell us we are to close and must keep our distance. Get ahold of Billy Proctor and ask him why the farms are place where they are placed The farmers asked him where best fishing spots were in the area so they could say away from them ( so they said) every spot he told them about now has a farm. When the salmon are gone in 4 years from the BA I WILL HOLD YOU PARTLY TO BLAME.
 
Sockeyefry, your arguments are still laughable. I thought you read the threads? Who said that fish farms are the ONLY impact upon our salmon and ecosystems? Are you dreaming, man? The fact is that net pen fish farms are an obvious and significant impact on wild salmon that can be easily eradicated because the technology to move them onto land is there and the benefits from those farms can still be attained. How measurable the improvement of doing so will be at the end is not even the question. Alone the risk current practices involve is plenty enough reason to get those companies to cough up the investment to go on land or get lost. This risk alone is unacceptable especially in the face of the battered salmon stocks. Don't you know the simplest economical rule? You always start with the best bang for the buck. Therefore net pen farms will go. Simple as that. Oh, and by the way - next time you see a net pen farm (probably tomorrow morning) maybe take your snorkeling gear and have a look at the ocean floor below. Looks yummy, eh? So much for good housekeeping at the farms....Maybe try another forum to sell your fairy tales. You do not seem to have much else to contribute ...
 
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