Aluminum boat builders - why have they become so greedy???

[kaelc]

It is literally half the cost. I'll be in mine for just over $100k total (tax-in) with brand new 250 main, kicker, pod, hardtop, radar/electronics, and new trailer. Sure it's an '06 hull but still great condition and most important mechanical stuff is new. Went to the boat show looking for anything close to comparable, with a cuddy & similar functionality (knowing what I'd find)
-Grady White adventure 218, no electronics & no kicker (not even a place to mount the damn kicker!) $180k plus tax
-Silver streak Phantom 21' pretty cool boat actually with a cuddy, rare for thsat size aluminum. $225k plus tax, also no kicker
you get the idea...
-And the selection of aluminums as mentioned with sloppy welds and sub-par fit-and-finish that are $140+ with no area to sleep.

Makes the 24' Cutwater at $235k look like a deal. Man that is a beautiful boat in and out, if I was a 55+ cashing in on equity that's what I would be retiring on.

I did a video of the Cutwater down in Seattle, I wish I had done one on the 23 Ranger as a comparison but I did do a video on the RT 27. Nice boats for sure, under the luxury tax for the 24 but still a lot of cake to get into a boat. At least the cutwater comes with a head and small galley at that price.

I would have loved the welding critics to have looked at the new Stabicraft 2250 they had at the Seattle show, it was their first boat at their new factory. Flew in tons of crew from NZ to help the Americans build it right.

You seem to get a pretty good package for 220k shipped from NZ to Vernon, so we should be able to put together a nice 25 in BC for 200k or 180k if bought directly from the manufacturer but that might just be wishful thinking and Gibbons may be selling this one without an engine or trailer.

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The only problem with investing 50-100k in podding it is hard to sell unless and recoup costs unless there is a factory option for the same boat. At least it limits the money that someone is financing or not investing.

 

[walleyes]

Yeah none of you understand the pain until you have to fix one, because they all cracked at the welds because of the little tiny stitch welds they do. Under the hatches they use grey silocone to make the seems look pretty, however it just attracts salt and when they all crack.. buy a million extra sanding dics and wear a mask with a vacuum. What a nightmare. Good times

Probably less work than what it takes to replace gas soaked stringers, rotten transoms, floors and separated glass. Which if experience on watching this forum alone has taught us probably 75% of glass boats over 30 years old suffer from. Owners just don't want to check or are to scared to or don’t care.

You can sink 50 - 75 g’s into a 30 year old glass if you want to but at the end of the day you still have a 30 year old glass boat that you are into for 100 grand and wont get half your money out of.

 

[ship happens]

Probably less work than what it takes to replace gas soaked stringers, rotten transoms, floors and separated glass. Which if experience on watching this forum alone has taught us probably 75% of glass boats over 30 years old suffer from. Owners just don't want to check or are to scared to or don’t care.

You can sink 50 - 75 g’s into a 30 year old glass if you want to but at the end of the day you still have a 30 year old glass boat that you are into for 100 grand and wont get half your money out of.

That's fair. However these boats are not more than 10 - 20 years old. I would say if foam filled then yes it's about the same amount of work as doing a stringer transom job on a glass boat. Really it's only on these production boats that I've noticed the problem. Any of them that used extruded aluminum for the 2 piece bottoms, and the ones who did not enough welding are cracking. The foam just makes a mess of things with aluminum. I get why the production guys do it, it's cheap floatation that has to meet the transport regulations, however I find it just nuts that the prices don't reflect. If that makes sense

 

[walleyes]

Someone in your line of work I’m sure can attest to the fact people can wreck anything, and they do. From what I've seen people buy an aluminum boat and for some reason think they are indestructible which nothing is. They seem to run them pretty hard. Glass boats some certainly not all again, people take it a little easier so they don’t bust up the glass. We’ve all seen the pics of glass boats with broken transoms, cracked hulls and what does everyone say, oh the asshole ran it to hard. We see a pic of an aluminum with an issue and its a piece of junk. Not saying there aren’t issues with some for sure not, and if we are being honest here we all know there are plenty and I mean plenty if glass boats made that were pieces of junk and had issues hand over fist.

I’ll own my little KF a lifetime, Lord willing I’ll be running it another 25 years plus. I’ll garuntee you it will never have a cracked weld, a separated floor or stringer. Other than the odd scuff it will be in the same shape it is in today. Now,, you going to convince me they are junk or that some asshole wrecked his so they are all junk..

 

[ship happens]

Someone in your line of work I’m sure can attest to the fact people can wreck anything, and they do. From what I've seen people buy an aluminum boat and for some reason think they are indestructible which nothing is. They seem to run them pretty hard. Glass boats some certainly not all again, people take it a little easier so they don’t bust up the glass. We’ve all seen the pics of glass boats with broken transoms, cracked hulls and what does everyone say, oh the asshole ran it to hard. We see a pic of an aluminum with an issue and its a piece of junk. Not saying there aren’t issues with some for sure not, and if we are being honest here we all know there are plenty and I mean plenty if glass boats made that were pieces of junk and had issues hand over fist.

I’ll own my little KF a lifetime, Lord willing I’ll be running it another 25 years plus. I’ll garuntee you it will never have a cracked weld, a separated floor or stringer. Other than the odd scuff it will be in the same shape it is in today. Now,, you going to convince me they are junk or that some asshole wrecked his so they are all junk..

You raise good points for sure. I realize peioke have pride in ownership and we all should 100 percent. Myself when talking about marine engineering I throw pride in ownership right out the window. I have 3 aluminum boats. They serve a small purpose. Never the less I guess the point I'm making is I think the price should reflect that. How the actual **** is someone going to buy a 22 or 25 foot aluminum boat for 200k with foam plywood decks, and get by with the least welding as possible?

 

[walleyes]

You raise good points for sure. I realize peioke have pride in ownership and we all should 100 percent. Myself when talking about marine engineering I throw pride in ownership right out the window. I have 3 aluminum boats. They serve a small purpose. Never the less I guess the point I'm making is I think the price should reflect that. How the actual **** is someone going to buy a 22 or 25 foot aluminum boat for 200k with foam plywood decks, and get by with the least welding as possible?

We certainly agree on the plywood decking 100% and you are right the price should reflect that. ( Was a specific request when I put in my order was to have aluminum decking) . But people keep buying them at these prices so they’ll keep charging it. I doubt we’ll ever see the price go down they’ll just produce less of them is all.

 

[ship happens]

We certainly agree on the plywood decking 100% and you are right the price should reflect that. ( Was a specific request when I put in my order was to have aluminum decking) . But people keep buying them at these prices so they’ll keep charging it. I doubt we’ll ever see the price go down they’ll just produce less of them is all.

It's amazing isn't it. Watching the aluminum boat trend over the last 15-20 years. Plywood decks and salt water are like this.. the vinyl covering acts like a plastic baggie. Trapping moisture. If it were fresh water it would be fine. The salt builds up between the wood and the aluminum floor joists, and will build up so thick it creates pressure between the 2. Eating the aluminum over not long periods of time. I've even seen the joists get warped. The moisture has nowhere to go really. Most of the flooring is ontop of foam as well do it can't breathe in those areas. You ca pull up some of these flooring panels and literally scrape 1/4inch thick or more in some areas of salt and aluminum corrosion. I dunno it just amazes me

 

[wolf]

I’ll own my little KF a lifetime, Lord willing I’ll be running it another 25 years plus

OH CMON we know thats not true LOL LOL you like new shiney things and something will catche your "eye" terry and you will be all over it LOL

 

[walleyes]

OH CMON we know thats not true LOL LOL you like new shiney things and something will catche your "eye" terry and you will be all over it LOL

Lol,, well I won‘t say never.

But hey, its what Im tellin momma anyways.

 

[zurk]

y'all should upgrade to 40 foot catamarans. highly recommended.

FYI i got 2 showings last week. for my KF at $80k. so the market is hopping.

 

[A-a-Ron]

The only problem with investing 50-100k in podding it is hard to sell unless and recoup costs unless there is a factory option for the same boat. At least it limits the money that someone is financing or not investing.

That is true for sure. Wouldn’t be doing it if the plan wasn’t to keep her for a while. It’s gonna be my forever boat for at least another few years…

 

[Charter Tofino]

They have been doing that as long as I can remember.

It’s a normal practice for some welds to be spaced and siliconed for aesthetics or a water seal. A fully welded seam can cause warping or creasing depending on the scenario.

It’s not greed driving aluminum builders, it’s simple costs/supply/demand. Most of them aren’t running a charity, they’re running a business. If the costs and demand increase then their prices will follow. Sucks when buying an aluminum but hard to blame a builder.

 

[ship happens]

It’s a normal practice for some welds to be spaced and siliconed for aesthetics or a water seal. A fully welded seam can cause warping or creasing depending on the scenario.

It’s not greed driving aluminum builders, it’s simple costs/supply/demand. Most of them aren’t running a charity, they’re running a business. If the costs and demand increase then their prices will follow. Sucks when buying an aluminum but hard to blame a builder.

I guess you didn't read what I wrote. I said their welds are too small. I know welding is stitched. It's called stich welding. Some of theirs are about 2 to 3 inches and way too far apart. No need for silicon. Lol that's the funniest thing I've ever heard

 

[Charter Tofino]

Haha honestly read the thread title, half scanned this thread for 30 seconds, saw the the reoccurring use of silicone complaint on aluminum boats and assumed. Guilty as charged.

I guess you didn't read what I wrote. I said their welds are too small. I know welding is stitched. It's called stich welding. Some of theirs are about 2 to 3 inches and way too far apart. No need for silicon. Lol that's the funniest thing I've ever heard

 

[Charter Tofino]

Haha honestly read the thread title, half scanned this thread for 30 seconds, saw the the reoccurring use of silicone complaint on aluminum boats and assumed. Guilty as charged.

That said, who are good builders in your opinion? North river is allegedly garbage and allegedly Silverstreak can’t weld?

 

[ship happens]

That said, who are good builders in your opinion? North river is allegedly garbage and allegedly Silverstreak can’t weld?

Most of the guys doing production use extruded aluminum joining either the center of the 2 piece bottoms, or on the edges where it meets the sides, (thunderjet use one piece) those most all Crack and or will have issues at some point for sure. I don't know how many buikders rhere are on that level. Alot. Pretty well all the production guys build that way up to 24ft. Think it has to do with them being cheap. They don't want to spend extra money on the bigger slabs of aluminum sheets, they also don't want to spend and invest in bigger tooling. Really it's because they are building them the easy way and pumping them out.

There's lots of shops building proper aluminum boats, some of our local shops like shore, northwest, jacksoncraft, walker, adrenalin, raider used to be, Daigle was and then they sold to kingfisher. Think their still doing the 28 or 30, can't remember. I'm sure there's more. Any custom boat shop will build a properly designed boat for a client.

Silver streak can weld just fine, they just cheap out and do little dumb stich welds not long enough and too far apart. Then they silicon in between the stitches. Dumb. I've owned 2. I've fixed I don't know how many.

Foam is a cheap way to get flotation. Now days with new transport canada regs (along with USA) the minimum requirements have changed. Boats have to not list to bow or stern when filled with water and gunnel height must stay above waterline. This is for new builds. Not sure how some get away with not having that however that is the regulation. Sealed bulkheads are the best, but more work.. foam makes a big mess. I've seen some guys wrap plastic sheet and then fill with foam so at least it's not bonded to the inner skin, however it's still not nice.

Then you start comparing to properly build glass boats and go down the rabbit hole. I'm so far down the rabbit hole I'm pretty sure I told Alice I'll see ya later

 

[Charter Tofino]

I hope you don’t inspect my Northwest or Walker.

 

[smp747]

Just curious how if everyone thinks that all these aluminum boats are over priced how the knock off made in china ones like the Stabicraft copies stack up against the mass produced North American ones? I've personally never seen them up close but could they be any worst? at least their cheaper??

 

[Brando]

Foam filled hulls are also a total pita to weld if there’s any corrosion repair to be done.

 

[Thunder21]

I would crank my prices through the roof as well if I had a lineup out the door. If demand drops I’m sure prices will follow.

Podding old boats isn’t a bad option but it’s also getting close to not worth it in a lot of cases. Engines have gone up a lot . My boat cost me around 70k to put twins on 3.5 years ago. That’s hull cost, glass, pod, new 200s, two sets of digital controls, install and electronics. I see old Commanders for sale in the 30k range. If you buy that and pod it, you’ll be way upside down. You need to basically steal the thing.