2015 Halibut Regulations

Hi Searun, answered that one quite a few times on here - first and foremost, despite making multiple trips to the saltchuck every year, my home area is in the Interior and the local groups have no interest in saltwater fisheries or the halibut issue. Second, and maybe more importantly, I am very unsupportive of a system that is closed, secretive and not inclusive - particularly when we're talking about the management of a public resource for a public recreational fishery.

The fact I, as an Interior resident, have no meaningful way to get involved is a pretty clear indication of a faulty system. The fact a closed meeting of fishing charter guides (i.e. no where near representing the diverse users of the resource) can come up with a possession slot limit regulation (that made no sense then, and makes even less sense now that we have the data that clearly shows its ineffectiveness) and have it endorsed and implemented cements the fact that the way rec fisheries are managed and the way the rec sector is represented in those decisions needs to be revisited and updated. There is no reason with modern technology the Washington and Oregon models of full inclusion and full disclosure of all decision making information shouldn't be the standard we demand here in BC. I for one can't imagine a single valid argument against a fully open and inclusive system.

Just one opinion of many out there. Promised myself a couple of years ago I wouldn't let this issue get to me anymore. Hard not to speak up some times.

Cheers!

Ukee


If I could suggest the BCWF.. I believe they have meeting in your area & I could get u the contact information if u would like...... the BCWF has very good representation in the process & do a great job speaking up for the recreational anglers B C .....
 
I have removed some content due to the nature of the personal attacks involved. The Halibut debate has been as divisive as any topic ever posted in this forum, but we will not allow any comments that will further divide this community and certainly not tolerate attacks on people who place themselves in the crossfire simply because they are willing to volunteer their time and energy, to the best of their ability, to represent the Recreational Fishing Community in these difficult decision making processes. You are welcome to disagree with anyone's position and offer your opinions, but, as always, it must stay respectful.

Brian
 
I would like to see Katy Perry topless but it's not going to happen. Our allocation isn't going to let 3 fish happen. Tailoring regs to suit those not from the coast who only make a trip or two per year would shut things down too quickly.

My beef with everyone venting on here about what's wrong with the system is that they are pointing out everything they see wrong without giving any or realistic alternatives. I don't think the current system or regs are perfect but it's not as simple as some seem to believe. Personally I don't have the answers. I think the current system balances the needs of everyone pretty well. It will be interesting to see how close we get to allocation this year. It should be pretty close which is the goal.


What's a realistic alternative? Let our limits get whittled away while commie guys are throwing dead oversize halibut away as bycatch? How's that fair?
 
In addition, the department has been asked to consider whether it might be possible to alter licence conditions in-season to improve opportunity and expectation now that all licenses are issued electronically, providing a data base by which it is possible to contact anglers about rule changes..

Any word on this part or will we have to wait till the new license comes out?
 
What's a realistic alternative? Let our limits get whittled away while commie guys are throwing dead oversize halibut away as bycatch? How's that fair?

The limits have been the same for many years and the commies don't throw the oversize ones back. Maybe get your facts straight before you shoot from the hip
 
The limits have been the same for many years and the commies don't throw the oversize ones back. Maybe get your facts straight before you shoot from the hip

Actually Bud, limits did change not too many years ago. Didn't we lose one fish? Weren't there changes mid season last year? And someone posted a video on here showing exactly that. Alaskan Commercial fisherman throwing large dead halibut over the rail. Caught as by catch. My facts are as straight as they need to be. You want to just roll over and take it, good on ya. I'm not your enemy man just trying to get a fair shake.
 
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Brian-- I see that my post with Gerry K,s email has been deleted. I think this is a mistake. Gerry is doing good work for all of us, but as the head of the SFAB he is the focal point for decisions that are made jointly by OUR reps and DFO. In past threads relating to the SFAB, there have been complaints that no member would step forward and explain how they determined their recommendations. Its supposed to be a transparent process-- but it sure isnt if a poster has no idea who is represent him!

The C&P email that I posted was directly from G.K on SFAB letter head . He initially posted his email , not me. The letter from the SFAB was meant to explain how this years allocation came about. It was widely distributed. Derby took the initiative to post it on this forum, and I thank him for that. But I feel that fishers will want to know who signed it off.

For the record I am a member of the Courtenay and District Fish and Game Association, and I am a committee chair. My name, telephone number and email is posted on the club's webpage under contacts for Committee Chairs. Anyone can get in touch with me. And this is the way it should be with the SFAB too. If anyone wants Gerrys PM me and I will be happy to provide it. Thanks
Bryan
 
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Hi Searun, answered that one quite a few times on here - first and foremost, despite making multiple trips to the saltchuck every year, my home area is in the Interior and the local groups have no interest in saltwater fisheries or the halibut issue. Second, and maybe more importantly, I am very unsupportive of a system that is closed, secretive and not inclusive - particularly when we're talking about the management of a public resource for a public recreational fishery.

The fact I, as an Interior resident, have no meaningful way to get involved is a pretty clear indication of a faulty system. The fact a closed meeting of fishing charter guides (i.e. no where near representing the diverse users of the resource) can come up with a possession slot limit regulation (that made no sense then, and makes even less sense now that we have the data that clearly shows its ineffectiveness) and have it endorsed and implemented cements the fact that the way rec fisheries are managed and the way the rec sector is represented in those decisions needs to be revisited and updated. There is no reason with modern technology the Washington and Oregon models of full inclusion and full disclosure of all decision making information shouldn't be the standard we demand here in BC. I for one can't imagine a single valid argument against a fully open and inclusive system.

Just one opinion of many out there. Promised myself a couple of years ago I wouldn't let this issue get to me anymore. Hard not to speak up some times.

Cheers!

Ukee

Uke, halibut interests don't end at the coast, the current South Coast chair of the SFAB lives in the interior and we have several groups from the interior that participate in halibut discussions and even in working groups, so where you live geographically doesn't exclude you from being involved in halibut discussions. If you really wanted to get involved you would, you wouldn't make excuses as to why you can't. People from the North Coast, Central Coast, BC Interior, Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island all participate. The system isn't closed, or secretive as you put it, these people are volunteers that come from local committees that are open to the public, and if you wanted to participate you could, any of you could. But few of you do.

The rest of the "I can't get involved because of blah blah blah, and its a "secret society of charter guides"...is just BS. The fact that you are foolish enough to even write this is a true testament to the fact that you have no idea what's going on. You are only serving the rumour mill and providing even more mis-information which is exactly what people DON'T NEED. Instead you should be appreciating the hundreds o hours that committed individuals make on a voluntary basis to speak for and represent the interests of the recreational fishery, so people like you can come to the coast and have a meaningful opportunity to fish for halibut.

Come to a local SFAC meeting, get elected move up in the SFAB if you want to help out the sector, it's all possible. Like Searun says, rocks don't help volunteers do.
 
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Hey Derby does this mean I will be getting another case of moosehead???
 
What should the system do? Fly interior residents out to meetings on the coast? Host meetings that focus on hali in Kelowna? The meetings are in areas where a large majority of anglers who fish tidal waters live. That's an unfortunate geographic reality.


What "inclusive system" do you think should be implemented? This thread clearly shows a forum where guys can sit down, drink a beer and type whatever they want just doesn't work. You can write to those involved in the process or go to meetings and get involved.


Going back to your previous post you use Oregon and Washington as an example of what works. Have you seen their general regs? Short season and allocation aside, the sheer amount of regs down there would make most British Columbians heads spin.

Kelly, I've referenced the Oregon and Washington models as well as the IPHC process - all three of which are open to everyone to participate, both in person and online, openly receive online submissions from anyone, provide all relevant background info and data on which decisions are made online for everyone to access and have web-based meetings. So not sure where your confusion about "what inclusive system" comes from?

I definitely don't disagree that they're regs down south are very complex but, the fact is they are managing a much more limited resource with an exponentially larger rec group, it works.

To expect a system that was developed decades ago to still meet the needs of an ever diversifying fishery and membership, and to ignore the modern tools available, is optimistic at best. Also, pointing out issues with how the system is performing today does not in anyway take away from all of the good work that has been done in the past - at the time the current system was developed it was world class and has accomplished may things. However, like all things, the management approach needs to be constantly reviewed and modernized, something that has not occurred here in BC. I stand by my experience with the current system, which is a lot more extensive than has been portrayed here, and my knowledge of its representation - fact is participation is extremely low, representation is a fraction of the sector membership and the system remains extremely closed and secretive with regard to the data and decisions pertaining to the management of a public resource for a public user rec sector.

As always, I appreciate the constructive discussion of this interesting fisheries issue and the many differing views and perspectives.

Cheers all!

Ukee
 
Uke, halibut interests don't end at the coast, the current South Coast chair of the SFAB lives in the interior and we have several groups from the interior that participate in halibut discussions and even in working groups, so where you live geographically doesn't exclude you from being involved in halibut discussions. If you really wanted to get involved you would, you wouldn't make excuses as to why you can't. People from the North Coast, Central Coast, BC Interior, Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island all participate. The system isn't closed, or secretive as you put it, these people are volunteers that come from local committees that are open to the public, and if you wanted to participate you could, any of you could. But few of you do.

The rest of the "I can't get involved because of blah blah blah, and its a "secret society of charter guides"...is just BS. The fact that you are foolish enough to even write this is a true testament to the fact that you have no idea what's going on. You are only serving the rumour mill and providing even more mis-information which is exactly what people DON'T NEED. Instead you should be appreciating the hundreds o hours that committed individuals make on a voluntary basis to speak for and represent the interests of the recreational fishery, so people like you can come to the coast and have a meaningful opportunity to fish for halibut.

Come to a local SFAC meeting, get elected move up in the SFAB if you want to help out the sector, it's all possible. Like Searun says, rocks don't help volunteers do.

Sorry Gamechanger but I have to call out misinformation from your post above. It is a fact that the Guides Association held an emergency, closed meeting and came up with the ridiculous possession slot and the current system enabled this. It's also a fact that this action not only pissed off a good portion of the rec sector but it pissed off and disenchanted a good number of the SFAC/SFAB membership. Many of us were made aware of the meeting and resulting regulation from many different avenues but it has also been confirmed publicly here on this forum.

Not sure if you "have no idea of what's going on" or are trying to "provide misinformation" but I agree with you that it does this discussion no good to forget or try to misrepresent that past. Past mistakes should only be embarrassing if they are repeated or we don't learn from them.

Cheers!

Ukee
 
Well-- its a election year. There are deals to be made. But how many will be willing to seriously lobby those that want our votes to get 20% of the TAC ???
 
Actually Bud, limits did change not too many years ago. Didn't we lose one fish? Weren't there changes mid season last year? And someone posted a video on here showing exactly that. Alaskan Commercial fisherman throwing large dead halibut over the rail. Caught as by catch. My facts are as straight as they need to be. You want to just roll over and take it, good on ya. I'm not your enemy man just trying to get a fair shake.

The possession limit has been 2 since 2008.......i'm just being realistic and happy that we can catch halibut in Sept and Oct
 
Ukee, you really are betraying your lack of real knowledge of the issues and motivations of the WCFGA. Let me shed some light please as your comments are particularly harmful to our organization and I must set the record straight as President.


The WCFGA did not have any "emergency meeting" this year to discuss and recommend regulations changes to the SFAB Halibut Committee. The WCFGA does hold membership meetings where we do discuss these issues, and we then act upon them for the benefit of our members in much the same manner as other great organizations like the BCWF for example.


To suggest that the Association can somehow hijack the SFAB process is patently disingenuous. We did not write any letters to the SFAB to provide advice on this year's regulations. We did however write the SFAB a few years ago to provide our views because we naively thought that was the way to be involved in the process. Those letters have been posted here for all to see. We were subsequently advised that the appropriate venue for making those views known was to attend meetings and join the process, and not to write letters directly to the SFAB. So we do what any one here can do...we get involved and help where we can. We attend meetings. Not sexy, lots of work, but its the right thing to do because we can contribute and we can hear other's views and actually learn by listening to the debates.


So to address any conspiracy theorists, it is true that the WCFGA has a seat on the IPHC Conference Board....just like other organizations do. We joined to help the Canadian Delegation by adding our vote to the Canadian cause, and we showed up and voted as a team player. One of the reasons Canada did well at the IPHC is this team work and ability to make professional arguments. Together we can accomplish a lot, divided we are going no where fast. As guides we wanted to help make a difference for Canada. Some will be suspicious of our motives, and I can't change that.


We strongly encourage our members to attend their SFAC meetings and provide input into the process, which is open to all to participate - yes even lowly self absorbed guides. Yes we discuss and agree upon how we see the halibut fishery and regulations from the best interest of all recreational anglers. Our number 1 value is ensuring a full season for all anglers, which might seem at odds with tilting the regs to favour allowing us to whack a bunch of barn doors so we can market those to customers and attract more business. If we were a self absorbed Association, we certainly would lobby for no slot limit so we can go catch all the TAC and be done in July but still be able to book out trips to unsuspecting guests who had been sold on catching barn doors. That would certainly screw over a lot of resident rec anglers for sure.


However, our group strongly felt that was and is the wrong headed approach. Rather that the best approach was to think about what worked best coast wide...that included supporting things like Feb openings because we came to understand that the Victoria Area fishery for example, has some unique tides and needs early season, and the right thing to do was to ensure those folks had equal access to these wonderful opportunities, just as folks on the north island who benefit from a fall fishery.


I can confirm that we did meet in the fall of 2014 (prior to the TAC announcement) and assumed we would get a similar TAC as in 2014. After debating the options available or assumed to be available, we agreed that what was best for the coast wide fishery was status quo. However, we did feel that after the catch results were known in August and if there was truly a harvestable surplus that we recommended members support opening up to 2 possible options in September. Those being remove the upper slot entirely or if there wasn't enough TAC left then to increase the upper size to 144 cm. There you go...transparency. There is no smashing conspiracy. Those comments are simply libellous.


I should point out (because it has been slightly under-represented on here) that one of the big issues at the IPHC meetings that most are not too savvy to on here is the halibut release mortality issue. Canada was charged 42,000 pounds in 2015 towards recreational release morts. We feel that is an unfair assessment. But it will continue to be attached to Canada's TAC in years to come. That makes this a huge issue, and one where we need to take off line into another thread to get input on how to reduce release mortality. I've seen some good practices and also bad ones. We need to start addressing this to develop best practices so we can help reduce the catch mortality being charged to our TAC going forward.


Cheers
 
Great post Pat. I have one question not directly related to any of the above. In past years, unused TAC was allowed to be added to the next year's TAC since the additional biomass contributed to the total available biomass the following year. It seems that this is no longer the case and I am wondering if you know why this change in policy. Did IPHC or DFO make this decision?

Thanks
 
Ukee, you really are betraying your lack of real knowledge of the issues and motivations of the WCFGA. Let me shed some light please as your comments are particularly harmful to our organization and I must set the record straight as President.


The WCFGA did not have any "emergency meeting" this year to discuss and recommend regulations changes to the SFAB Halibut Committee. The WCFGA does hold membership meetings where we do discuss these issues, and we then act upon them for the benefit of our members in much the same manner as other great organizations like the BCWF for example.


To suggest that the Association can somehow hijack the SFAB process is patently disingenuous. We did not write any letters to the SFAB to provide advice on this year's regulations. We did however write the SFAB a few years ago to provide our views because we naively thought that was the way to be involved in the process. Those letters have been posted here for all to see. We were subsequently advised that the appropriate venue for making those views known was to attend meetings and join the process, and not to write letters directly to the SFAB. So we do what any one here can do...we get involved and help where we can. We attend meetings. Not sexy, lots of work, but its the right thing to do because we can contribute and we can hear other's views and actually learn by listening to the debates.


So to address any conspiracy theorists, it is true that the WCFGA has a seat on the IPHC Conference Board....just like other organizations do. We joined to help the Canadian Delegation by adding our vote to the Canadian cause, and we showed up and voted as a team player. One of the reasons Canada did well at the IPHC is this team work and ability to make professional arguments. Together we can accomplish a lot, divided we are going no where fast. As guides we wanted to help make a difference for Canada. Some will be suspicious of our motives, and I can't change that.


We strongly encourage our members to attend their SFAC meetings and provide input into the process, which is open to all to participate - yes even lowly self absorbed guides. Yes we discuss and agree upon how we see the halibut fishery and regulations from the best interest of all recreational anglers. Our number 1 value is ensuring a full season for all anglers, which might seem at odds with tilting the regs to favour allowing us to whack a bunch of barn doors so we can market those to customers and attract more business. If we were a self absorbed Association, we certainly would lobby for no slot limit so we can go catch all the TAC and be done in July but still be able to book out trips to unsuspecting guests who had been sold on catching barn doors. That would certainly screw over a lot of resident rec anglers for sure.


However, our group strongly felt that was and is the wrong headed approach. Rather that the best approach was to think about what worked best coast wide...that included supporting things like Feb openings because we came to understand that the Victoria Area fishery for example, has some unique tides and needs early season, and the right thing to do was to ensure those folks had equal access to these wonderful opportunities, just as folks on the north island who benefit from a fall fishery.


I can confirm that we did meet in the fall of 2014 (prior to the TAC announcement) and assumed we would get a similar TAC as in 2014. After debating the options available or assumed to be available, we agreed that what was best for the coast wide fishery was status quo. However, we did feel that after the catch results were known in August and if there was truly a harvestable surplus that we recommended members support opening up to 2 possible options in September. Those being remove the upper slot entirely or if there wasn't enough TAC left then to increase the upper size to 144 cm. There you go...transparency. There is no smashing conspiracy. Those comments are simply libellous.


I should point out (because it has been slightly under-represented on here) that one of the big issues at the IPHC meetings that most are not too savvy to on here is the halibut release mortality issue. Canada was charged 42,000 pounds in 2015 towards recreational release morts. We feel that is an unfair assessment. But it will continue to be attached to Canada's TAC in years to come. That makes this a huge issue, and one where we need to take off line into another thread to get input on how to reduce release mortality. I've seen some good practices and also bad ones. We need to start addressing this to develop best practices so we can help reduce the catch mortality being charged to our TAC going forward.


Cheers

I was referring to how the initial possession slot reg came into place a few years back, not about this year's decisions, but I think you know that as we've engaged in these discussions in the past.

Cheers!

Ukee
 
No change in policy, we (rec fleet) were never "technically" allowed to carry over. DFO had previously allowed us to be "over" as they could move things around between sectors, however those were different times at the IPHC and in DFO. Some may recall in more abundant years when rec fleet did not catch our TAC, that some was allowed to be sold to commercial fleet (who can carry over a portion of their TAC under IPHC process BTW).

DFO will not allow any overage going forward, and put SFAB on notice of same through the process.

Things are drastically different, and the whole issue of by-catch and release mortality is gaining real traction at IPHC. Canada accepts that approach of being responsible for our catch mortalities, but was boxed in by IPHC on using AK release morts data because we did not have any of our own etc (I'm over-simplifying this a bit to be brief). We believe our actual release morts are way lower than Alaska because our slot regime has fewer actual released fish than the reverse slot system they have in place in AK. BUT, no solid evidence or best practices in releasing fish to offset etc. Big issue we need to tackle. Will have to start another thread on this one as it is off topic on here.

I probably missed some of the key historical points, others can probably answer them better than I.
 
Well Ukee, then you clearly understand the value of getting involved in the SFAB process - which I invite you to do. We got that advice some time ago and acted on it.

Posting stuff on here thinking it will somehow add to the decision making process is simply like having a conversation with yourself and thinking you will somehow influence others to act...just weird. You seem like a really thoughtful person, and it is a shame to waste that effort on having what amounts to a conversation with yourself in the mirror.

Hope to see you at some meetings soon.
 
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