White Springs
- Thread starter spring fever
- Start date
Excellent post CB2SQRD! Agree w @SF - a very well reasoned & insightful response. I'll add my $0.02 worth:
I think genetics plays into the skin colour - but not directly.
I think genetics determines what clade the Chinook belongs in ("ocean type" or "stream type" as you mentioned) - and that life history focuses the availability of prey items - and those prey items that turn out to be more crustacean/krill (in the deeper more open ocean) determine the amount of Astaxanthin - or the red colour deposited in the flesh.
In fact, FFs add this to their feed for Atlantics some days before harvest to give their flesh saleability on the market.
The more Southern & the more coastal the Chinook stocks are - the more likely they will be ocean-type. And the more interior & Northern they are - they more likely they will be river-type. With the notable exceptions you & other posters pointed out already on this thread.
Just guessing - but I would anticipate that the river-type would key more on FW inverts & fish earlier in their life history - and that prey recognition/preference for forage fishes may continue later on when they outmigrate as subadults. That would make their flesh more white w/o keying in on krill & other SW invertebrates/zooplankton - where maybe the ocean-type do - and get their dose of Astaxanthin.
And then there is the smell factor, as well - which could be related also to life history.
And most reading this thread will recognize - unlike coho - some Chinook stocks smell very heavily & pungent like yellow cedar - and you can even smell it in the water when they are present. Maybe posters reading this can comment on their observations of Chinook smell and possible stock differences?
I’m in your camp. White spring is the first to be ‘gifted’.
Newf
Crew Member
I'm not a highliner like many on here but for me a chinook has the worst smell (before it's cleaned) than any of the others and it doesn't have to be white to fit in that category. On another note, of the 4 that I caught this year that were between 75-80cm, 3 of them were white. My wife don't care for them but I think it's more mental. Should do a blindfold taste test for her.
Aquaholic
Crew Member
Johnny Winter Feeder?
CalCom
Member
I caught a nice 22lb white two days ago (and a smaller marbled). I chose to cut it into steaks and what I found was that its flesh was significantly firmer than a typical red spring, almost to the point of feeling rubbery. It put up one of the best fights I’ve had for a low 20’s chinook.
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Aquaholic
Crew Member
Those salmon steaks look very appetizing. I usually end up filleting the tail portion. (No pin bones to deal with, young grandkids love it)
searun
Well-Known Member
Another reason folks appear to be encountering more whites these days is DFO increased the production of chinook in Chilliwack hatchery to feed SRKW. This year should be the last year of the effects of returning adults from an additional 2 million smolts released, so enjoy the abundance. That program and the increased smolt releases has ended.
Harrison returns (whites) have also been recovering/increasing. Historically there have been returns over 200k, which also contributes significantly to the recreational fishery and encounters of whites.
Harrison returns (whites) have also been recovering/increasing. Historically there have been returns over 200k, which also contributes significantly to the recreational fishery and encounters of whites.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Yeah they quietly ended it, will see what future years bring now.
Even if survival was low as 3% that’s an extra 60k gone for future years. Chiliwack tends to have pretty high survival rates to compared to most systems.
That’s a big difference to the fall fishery. It’s will certainly be felt.
I think there was some interbreeding now tho. There’s some stinky reds out there now that got Harrison genetics.
very interesting - didn't know this. Thanks for posting, Chris!
There's 2 studies out on this, I could find. The 1st one crossed Big Qualicum red-fleshed × Harrison white-fleshed Chinook:
Quote: "We propose that an ancestral mutation partially disrupting BCO2-l (i.e. hypomorphic mutation [41]) in proto-salmonids provided an adaptation that allowed the group to exploit carotenoids as an antioxidant resource in their muscle tissue during stressful spawning migrations and nest building, thereby facilitating the evolution of anadromy [2]. Within Chinook salmon, a more recent mutation that elevated BCO2-l activity (i.e. hypermorphic mutation [41]) and increased the rate at which carotenoids were metabolized into colourless derivatives [22] probably drove the evolution of the white flesh phenotype prior to the end of the last glaciation"
So, following that hypothesis - one would see longer migrations in large watersheds that reach more interior spawning grounds (like the Fraser verses the numerous smaller coastal watersheds). That does sound like stream/river-type Chinook life history to me.
The lead author was interviewed on the white/red study at:
and the other study was more of a genetic one:
Red and White Chinook Salmon (Oncorhynchus tshawytscha): Differences in the Transcriptome Profile of Muscle, Liver, and Pylorus - Marine Biotechnology
Astaxanthin (Ax), the main carotenoid responsible for the distinct red flesh color in salmonids (Oncorhynchus, Salvelinus, Salmo, and Parahucho), is added to the diet of farmed fish at a substantial cost. Despite the great economical value for the salmon industry, the key molecular mechanisms...
link.springer.com
fishbadger
Active Member
We don't catch a lot of whitey's south of the border, and the ones I've handled have been either in the SJF or Neah Bay across from the Rat's nose. I'm thinking there aren't many (any?) whitey's returning to the Columbia drainage or rivers south, and not many (any?) returning to Puget Sound either. That would jive with most being of Harrison origin from what I've heard. Those "marbled" kings I don't think are related to whitey's. Most (at least down here) are either Tule strain or coastal strain chinook. I'm no expert, but my experience has told me that a Tule (marlble) bright from the ocean in June or July is decent table fare, but when it gets near its river later the grade significantly drops. I've only ever caught white kings in the ocean, and in June/July, and they've all been good eaters, but I'd imagine as the summer wanes and they start to sniff their home gravel, as with any other salmonid, their grade tanks too. Interesting discussion,
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Aquaholic
Crew Member
I posted on social media a white chinook I caught at Sand Heads recently, it somehow got lots of comments from US enthusiasts who were adamant it was a Tulie, as they called it. A few knew correctly of Sand Heads and the Fraser River arms and where the chinook was trying get to so it could spawn. They are different for sure.
northwest wind
Member
Some people like them others don’t. I’m one of the ones that don’t. Don’t know if it’s common knowledge or not but you can tell if a spring salmon is red or white without bonking it. Just look under the gill plate at the bottom and you can see the colour of the flesh. I do this with fish beside the boat fish in the water if I’m in an area that has higher possibility of white spring.
scott craven
Well-Known Member
Oh, I think so. The whites are so much oilier than the reds.
JMHO
JMHO
Aquaholic
Crew Member
Texture , for sure.
