Upset about the Chinook Closures? What to do next?

scott craven said:
A protest will get us nothing, a protest fishery might bring it to the forefront.
pick a day, all area's , any day that people can fish,and kill one fish per person.
mark them on your license as a protest against the regulations.
Make it known this will happen to DFO.
The people that get busted take it on the chin.
It will soon be known that the rec. fishing community have backbone and won't be
steamrolled.
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If there are fines we should create a fund to pay them from, so that no individual takes the full cost of the protest fishery. Kind of like unions upping their dues to to cover another unions strike pay.
 
Ok let me get this straight . The public perception upon us right now is that whales are starving and Chinook stocks are depressed. That is a fact.

So we have a protest were we kill salmon very illegally publicly. Think about the media would absolutely rip us apart. I mean it would get ugly.

Look I would never say anything do what you want, but all that does is fuel groups like the MCC Caucus to just push the minister to just shut it down.

Just my thoughts.
 
Good post and I think I agree with just about everything you said there. My initial beef with the “reallocation” comments were in the very literal sense. There are many people who still think that the FN fisheries and currently open and that the commercial troll fisheries are currently open while the only ones shut out are the rec sector. I had chatted with many of my good buddies who fish a ton who still seem to think that because they read something on this forum or in Facebook that kinda sounded like that was the case.

I hear ya on the more subtle “reallocation that is not reallocation” conversation but that is not what I was referring to in my initial comment. Who woulda thought a forum post could be misinterpreted

Jencourt said:
Funny you would post this. I just jumped on to ask what it is that some of you would be protesting. Then I read this.

I know what you are saying . At face it is all very legit and all bases have been covered by the minister.

By you saying this is not a reallocation I respectfully think you are confused between what has been done and why, as it compares to what will take place and what it will end up becoming.
You are very correct in stating that DFO has followed the law and that in order to keep FN off they first must keep us off.

The trade off that was made was that we could continue with a “non retention “ instead of full closure, and FN would continue to have limited FSC openings.
So, yes you are also correct from a point of law and technically it is not a reallocation.

Let us not all forget that we also took a 50% reduction of daily limits in much of the east coast VI approaches last year and it will continue. Also no fin-fish areas in south areas. To add we have now bin hit with a 66% percent cut on our allowable annual limit. Whether one feels 10 is enough or 30 was way too many or not, It was a 66% reduction in allowable take. Worth mentioning the troll fleet has lost the entire spring quota. I suspect that will never be made up in the late summer opener.

I would suggest that those few things alone equate to a reallocation as our access to what we are allowed starts as the supposed FN reductions come to an end. The commercial troll later than that .

This all has worked out very well for the minister as he was able to make these restrictions that create huge ramifications, thus giving the appearance of doing a significant amount of good for the fish.
It also allowed him to appease the ENGO groups by removing retention for well over half of our traditional spring/summer season. Combine that with the sabotage of the troll fleets spring season and this is significant.

It also worked out as he was able to tell everyone that FN fishing during the non retention will be very minimal .

Then it worked out for the portion of FN that will continue to fish as much, wen ever, and where they please.

We will see at a very minimum these same regs for at least 5 years as stated by the minister. I would expect longer and likely heavier, or more closures.

History has shown that a portion of the Fraser FN do not believe they need to comply and they will fish. Make no mistake. A good portion of the small percentage we will contribute to entering the river will meet the fate of gill nets and black market sales.

Combine all these cuts (that are so easily justified) and the public fishery and commercial troll fleets allocation of Chinook looks significantly different than it did a short time ago. Hence we have the reallocation that is not a reallocation.

I stated above that the minister was able to appease the NGO. This is only true to a point.

Make no mistake the ENGO see this as a half measured beginning The notice was not even public yet and some where crying foul and said it must be a closure. Not non retention. They then immediately went after catch and release as is some FN and others I am told.

These actions taken by the minister are about things that reach far beyond the early timed upper Frazer Chinook and SRKW.

This is my take after taking time to consider the ton of stuff that I have read and has been said by many who are far more knowledgeable in all this than I.
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Chinook_Map_E-1-768x820.jpg
tincan said:
Good post and I think I agree with just about everything you said there. My initial beef with the “reallocation” comments were in the very literal sense. There are many people who still think that the FN fisheries and currently open and that the commercial troll fisheries are currently open while the only ones shut out are the rec sector. I had chatted with many of my good buddies who fish a ton who still seem to think that because they read something on this forum or in Facebook that kinda sounded like that was the case.

I hear ya on the more subtle “reallocation that is not reallocation” conversation but that is not what I was referring to in my initial comment. Who woulda thought a forum post could be misinterpreted
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TinCan... any clarity on this?

Very unclear about whether or not First Nations nets are in the water between now and July 14th.

One DFO Map says "Very Limited Ceremonial Access until after July 14th. Does this refer to the Area 28 in the Ocean or Coastwide? See abovemap..

With Scenario A, which we now have, the First Nations were to have a 60 percent reduction in harvest on the stocks of concern. So, with that in mind, one would assume they would have openings over the next few months until July 14th, then ramp up?

Below text is from a similar document.

• First Nations food, social and ceremonial fisheries: these fisheries, which have a constitutionally protected priority, will not commence until July 15 – concurrent with the opening of the recreational retention fishery.
 
SpringVelocity said:
Ok let me get this straight . The public perception upon us right now is that whales are starving and Chinook stocks are depressed. That is a fact.

So we have a protest were we kill salmon very illegally publicly. Think about the media would absolutely rip us apart. I mean it would get ugly.

Look I would never say anything do what you want, but all that does is fuel groups like the MCC Caucus to just push the minister to just shut it down.

Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...

You are right, I was just pissed off....

:(
 
Fishtofino said:
Yes but you know it’s nearly impossible to stop the netting. We tried for many years to try and save the Thompson Steelhead but there were too many of them.
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Sorry, if you think it was FN nets that have caused the destruction of the Thompson steelhead stock, you know nothing about this run and it’s significant issues ... FN nets and commie chum gill nets may be what finishes it off but late season bycatch had very little, if anything, to do with why that stock that historically numbered up to 5000 is currently barely over 100. The same landscape level watershed destruction and water mismanagement that has killed off the Thompson Steelhead are the same issues that have contributed to the decline of Interior Chinook and coho.

DFO mentioned freshwater habitat destruction and drought (ie water mismanagement) as key causes of decline, along with Ocean productivity, fishing exploitation and predation (not jus pinniped, but also bull trout and fish eating birds). We know about the fishing closures ... what are we doing to hold DFO accountable to communicate their plan on how they are going to address and fund the others?

Cheers!

Ukee
 
scott craven said:
You are right, I was just pissed off....

:(
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No problem. Anyone that watched the mainland video last night can see how these professionals work. I would hate to see one of us getting large fines and just being used to make the point.

This is a very tough position we are in right now. We can though start calling the misinformation out when we see it. In order to move forward we need to think of different strategy.

If any one has been watching it feels like boxes are being ticked off to get that pipeline through. Look at the sequence of events in timeline. I think there is more going on than we think we know and it is in Ottawa.

Personally I am making my change with my vote.
 
UkeeDreamin said:
Sorry, if you think it was FN nets that have caused the destruction of the Thompson steelhead stock, you know nothing about this run and it’s significant issues ... FN nets and commie chum gill nets may be what finishes it off but late season bycatch had very little, if anything, to do with why that stock that historically numbered up to 5000 is currently barely over 100. The same landscape level watershed destruction and water mismanagement that has killed off the Thompson Steelhead are the same issues that have contributed to the decline of Interior Chinook and coho.

DFO mentioned freshwater habitat destruction and drought (ie water mismanagement) as key causes of decline, along with Ocean productivity, fishing exploitation and predation (not jus pinniped, but also bull trout and fish eating birds). We know about the fishing closures ... what are we doing to hold DFO accountable to communicate their plan on how they are going to address and fund the others?

Cheers!

Ukee
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I know plenty about that run as I spent 20 years of my life fighting for those fish. As with all failures in andronomous fish runs there are more than 1reason for failure. I was part of ss group that was targeting an illegal netting/selling ring in the canyon. Hay bales wrapped in barbed wire was our weapon of choice
 
Ukee...I know a little bit about our Thompson and interior steelhead...lol.

I will.agree with you on the habitat problems, however to say that a run coinciding with peak sockeye and chum netting isn't the main cause of decline is your opinion. Myself and many others will agree to disagree with you.

I do wish that more of a spotlight was on the Thompson tributaries though!
 
Jencourt said:
... This is my take after taking time to consider the ton of stuff that I have read and has been said by many who are far more knowledgeable in all this than I.
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NAILED IT!
Pozitive.gif
 
Whitebuck said:
Ukee...I know a little bit about our Thompson and interior steelhead...lol.

I will.agree with you on the habitat problems, however to say that a run coinciding with peak sockeye and chum netting isn't the main cause of decline is your opinion. Myself and many others will agree to disagree with you.

I do wish that more of a spotlight was on the Thompson tributaries though!
Click to expand...

Glad you point out the overlap w/ sockeye fishing as the DFO revisionists would like to ignore the fact the Thompson steelhead run used to have a significant early portion that overlapped that fishery, and that fishery is likely why there weren’t many early-timed fish in the past 20+ years, allowing DFO to pretend the run has a later migration. Having said that, this run was still robust until the habitat and water availability crossed a significant threshold.

I agree with both yourself and Fishtofino that it’s never a single factor that causes a significant stock collapse but rather multiple issues .... which brings me back to my comments about holding DFO accountable. We have rec closures that have been widely reported and publicized (and commercial closures, too - sorry Nog!) ... we need to hold DFO accountable to publicize there plans on how they will ensure the FN fishery meets the mgmt measures (personally I feel we should be holding them accountable to no gill nets in the river if this truly is a conservation crisis), how they will manage predation mortality, what they’re doing about ocean productivity in relation to the billions of hatchery chum and pink salmon oversubscribing ocean resources, how they will regulate watershed development to ensure the watersheds at risk don’t get worse and we don’t add more at risk watersheds to the list, how water will be managed to ensure adequate conditions for the fish we are doing our part to ensure return (low snowpack and another early melt mean significant risk of another Interior drought), etc, etc.

Cheers!

Ukee
 
SerengetiGuide said:
Should be a rec angler watch up there that checks for nets when they have time. And if they see them pull them!
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That might be going too far, and incite violence. Filming discreetly and posting everywhere will get the job done.
 
Gill net in the river today at 1pm off Wellington point in Ladner.

So...How do you find out if a FN or commercial fishery is open in an area? I just spent 20 mins on the DFO site but its just so frustrating....
 
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Pearl dog said:
Gill net in the river today at 1pm off Wellington point in Ladner.

So...How do you find out if a FN or commercial fishery is open in an area? I just spent 20 mins on the DFO site but its just so frustrating....
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Heck I’d just report it on the poaching line and let DFO sort it out. They seem to have problems disseminating information! Sometimes on purpose so as not to raise embarrassing questions. But maybe even if it’s legal they’ll start getting the hint that their site isn’t exactly user friendly.
 
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