Unlicenced fishing charters a growing concern

You're right in that Canada Revenue is completely different than Transport Canada. It's just the "illegal guiding" aspect would be based on the Transport Canada rules.
An easier solution for Canada Revenue is the fact that you are offering your services as a fishing guide, either by word of mouth or advertising.
You could operate your business in such a way that you aren't breaking any transport Canada rules and still owe taxes to CRA.
Given the massive expenses related to operating a boat, it would be a near impossible task for CRA to prove that your buddy fishing cost is generating profit.

All that aside, I think that those of us who work within the rules and operate legally/safely will prevail in the long term. If a customer insists on using a shoddy fly by night operator, perhaps he isn't a "real" customer, and would never use a a legal guide and pay full price.

I would hate to be the guest or owner of the fly by night boat in the event of a major incident, I think they would all be in for a big dissapointment
 
As a guide for 31 years it is quite simple. If you advertise in any form and solicit for payment for a fishing trip you are a business and a guide. That can be in the form of an ad on a website, brochure, business card, newspaper, magazine, an affiliation and referrals from another business (hotels, restaurants, campsites, marinas, lodge etc) No reasonable guide is worried or cares about the guy who phones his bud the night before and says I've heard the fishing is on fire and I want to go out in the morning...you want to share costs and join me in the morning?
 
In the Sooke area the CRA would be interested in those legit guides who are generating well in excess of the $30,000 annual income that when exceeded requires they add and collect the GST. I've collected the GST since its inception as I'm over that thresh hold by double and then some in most years. There are 4 or 5 legit and busy operators (considerably busier than myself) who don't collect the tax and therefore have a 5% further advantage on price on the initial phone query. There is only one way to be this busy and not show income in excess of the thresh hold. Don't show all the income. So they cheat everyone by not collecting taxes which results in the rest of us paying more and in my case they use a government loophole as an unfair business advantage resulting in myself and others loosing revenue that supports our families.
 
Just out of curiosity, what qualifies someone as a "Reel professional"? there are many lodges and guiding outfits that simply put a warm body in the stern and have them travel 5 km to the hot spot and just drag some meat in the water, and yet these are considered guides, and there are others who have been in the business for decades and know damn near every possible movement each fish can make. To me these are the true pros. Its not just a job to them its a way of life and a passion for fish and people that 99% of the anglers just cannot emulate. Yet there are no courses or formal qualifications that separate the two. I have fished this coast for 40 years, does that make me qualified? Cause I sure don't feel like I should be.o_O

A friend of mine that's a qualified working guide has on a couple of occasions urged me to take the SVOP so I could work as a guide during the busy period at one of the lodges where he guests three weeks a year. I know I'm nowhere near experienced enough, but it's like the quoted post says - sometimes lodges just need a warm body aboard. When the fish are running you just need someone to get the punters to the bite.
 
It is pretty clear in Canadian law that sharing the cost of an adventure or life is not a business, ie having a roommate or ride sharing, where costs are shared but a profit is not made.

It sucks that there are unlicensed charters but they will never last and be the serious businesses like the guide professionals. I work in a heavily regulated and licensed business and see new unlicensed competitors every day. It really sucks but ever minute I spend worrying about it is a minute I don't service my clients. Government regulation does little to deal with unlicensed competition, compared to running a great business, IMHO. I'm always happy to recommend the great guides on this site.
 
Theres an american who has lots of friends everyday of the season who runs out of nootka. He has already been busted and convicted in washington state for shady guding practices.
 
Just out of curiosity, what qualifies someone as a "Reel professional"? there are many lodges and guiding outfits that simply put a warm body in the stern and have them travel 5 km to the hot spot and just drag some meat in the water, and yet these are considered guides, and there are others who have been in the business for decades and know damn near every possible movement each fish can make. To me these are the true pros. Its not just a job to them its a way of life and a passion for fish and people that 99% of the anglers just cannot emulate. Yet there are no courses or formal qualifications that separate the two. I have fished this coast for 40 years, does that make me qualified? Cause I sure don't feel like I should be.o_O

Firstly I don't think guiding is really any different than many other services/businesses that require operator training and credentials to legally operate. To be a "professional" simply means that you make money at doing it and have the legal requirements/training/ required. After that there is a ton that differentiates a good pro-guide from a bad pro-guide. Is that not the same with most/all professions ? Obviously with "professionals" there will be a large variability in experience levels as well. At that point its up to the client to choose an operator that is recommended and/or is known to be a quality experienced enough "professional". That may be a pro with 5 or 30 years experience. And 30 years experience with all the credentials in the world doesn't necessarily make that "professional" guide a good guide either. No there are no courses or formal qualifications that will separate the good from the bad, lol.
 
Hi guys,
Knowing how long it took me to think I have "figured it out", I would not offer my services as a guide, BUT, the prices for a mere 6 hour trip are becoming something an average family just can't afford. Those folks may never get an opportunity to see the fish roll over, ever watched those folks eyes, they just about pop out of their head.

Saying that, once a few years ago, I rented my boat out and these guys tried to get me to go with them and I declined fairly assertively. I could have gone and probably snagged a few and they did offer quite the buck and a half but I didn't.

Now though, with the super high prices, I might give some thought to "sharing" the cost of a trip, just to see the look of someone who can't afford $3 or 4 hundred bucks to maybe catch something that resembles bait and is hard to reel in because the throttle goes down.

Another consideration I now have is, I'm alone. I would not mind having someone with me, even if it is just to catch the rope at the dock.

I have fished the same area for 25 years now, I'm going to try out some other spots and species, I might need someone who is familiar, maybe share the gas costs or other incidentals, is that guiding?
 
I'm not sure that a 6 hour charter is something the average family can't afford. Most of the trips I take out are made up of 4 persons sharing costs. They get the 4 person group together before they start calling around to see who is available. My 6 hour trip is $555.00 plus GST so divided by 4 that is about $139.00 plus tax each. It costs me that much to take my own boat out alone for the day when I add up my costs for vehicle fuel, boat fuel, bait, tackle, moorage and insurance. I also have to worry about breakdowns and maintenance costs, they have no worries about that.
I know there will always be the part timers who already have a good pension and have retired earlier than most of us can. They are looking only to work the boat to cover costs and make a few bucks. My argument is that they can do that and not undercut those of us who rely on this as our main source of income. Example...a part timer does 100 - 6 hr trips in a season at $400 per trip. That is undercutting me by $155 for the same trip. So his gross for the 100 trips is $40,000.00 If he charged $555 so as to not undercut and did 75 trips his gross would be $41, 625.00. He would also keep the costs of the other 25 trips (gas, bait, tackle etc) in his pockets. He could still be on the water those other 25 days if he wanted to but take out friends sharing costs or fish on his own. So he still makes his money to cover his boat ownership costs and keeps from creating animosity with those of us still paying off mortgages and who don't have the luxury of an early retirement and pension.
 
Well said Profisher. While most of us on here appreciate the value of a true professional guide, as most of us have been guided at some point, I'm also sure most of us don't have a true appreciation for how frustrating this issue is to those same guides. While the rest of us rec anglers may view guiding as "living the dream" from the outside, I'm sure the reality of perpetual early mornings, maintenance issues, pressure of finding fish and the economic realities are all things we can't truly appreciate.

Cheers!

Ukee
 
Like I said, the average family, mom, dad, 10 yr old daughter, 8 yr old son, camping over on the island from Vancouver. 3 to 4 hundred for just half a day might tax the budget. I know guides that would likely stay out longer just to make it special and that isn't the same cost as going to a Canuck game, but it can still be expensive while already on an expensive holiday for them. You see these families/people at the clean up station on the dock, just to see the fish and dream.

Two different client markets really.

Retirement, ahh what a concept, the wife moved out 6 years ago and took the pension with her and she liked fishing so it wasn't that, besides I just hit 60, you know the new 40.

I sympathize with the guides that have the huge expenses of the 150 grand aluminum boat with the 50 grand engines leased or purchased. I own trucks so I know expenses, especially if used.

I myself own two boats, a 24' & 28' Searays. Both inboards, both with new engines, legs, kickers, electric downriggers, Lowrance's etc...but I own them. Now you think I am loaded, not so, combined they both cost me around $25 grand, on trailers no less. And then spread the cost out over 6 years, the engines just went in this year. They aren't new, but they float and don't look like wrecks. Looking into another boat, a little smaller, 23' Bayliner or Sunrunner, both run, one is $5 and the other is $5.5, both run, stringers/transoms are okay, been garage kept for life, but older boats.

I'm thinking about renting them out a few times this year, maybe three weeks all together, they have rev governors, 4500 RPM, GPS location chips and a few other do dads on them.

If, IF, I decide to have guests on my boat, it won't be through advertising or more than a very, very few times all summer.

A funny story, I was fishing on the coast with my son and like I said before, "I think I have it figured out", well we do alright, hit a couple of 25+ springs and a couple of coho, so we go to the bar and my kid starts, well he can't stop talking about the hits and misses, especially the misses and without thought of others, there are guides and guests there, well the guide starts questioning my kid's sincerity because they aren't having much luck, apparently any where in the area. Cell phones take pictures and he proudly starts a rather loud encounter and flashes the video's. His guests are not impressed. These other two guys come up and ask what I do or how, I explain the process and figure that is that. Well they follow me back to my camp and ask me to show them the rigging set up on their boat so my kid and I say okay, it was a family camp out, my 83 yr old da, sister and others are there so it has to be quick. We get on his 26' newly purchased boat (he was a multi millionaire) so I show him the set up and poof, he kidnaps me and my kid. I try to make it quick, we drop the lines to show him various depths and other stuff and boom, he gets his first fish (keeper) after being out there three weeks, a little 8-10 lb coho. Now he wants to go again, he won't take us back, not really arguing too much but, long story short, we go out for 2 1/2 hours and limit out for them, not me and my kid, two 25+ springs and coho each for them. We go back to dock and I told them I am not thrilled to abandon the family like we did and we go back to camp. Two hours later the guy shows up with a cooked salmon and $500 bucks, we made his entire trip. And the guide in the bar, I told him what we do and the next day his group is limiting out, just luck I guess.

I try not to go to the bar much after that, I don't like arguments, I don't like being called a liar, I don't have to exaggerate and I don't want to make those that make a living doing this look bad and tell me I don't know anything. I am not conventional, I do the same thing over and over again, everywhere. There are no secrets.

AND I don't guide, but I might take that family that comes down to the dock for a quick trip around the harbour, not in Vancouver though. I haven't fished the local area since the Vancouver Sun derby's more than once or twice, well maybe afew more times than that......get it? ;D
 
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In the Sooke area the CRA would be interested in those legit guides who are generating well in excess of the $30,000 annual income that when exceeded requires they add and collect the GST. I've collected the GST since its inception as I'm over that thresh hold by double and then some in most years. There are 4 or 5 legit and busy operators (considerably busier than myself) who don't collect the tax and therefore have a 5% further advantage on price on the initial phone query. There is only one way to be this busy and not show income in excess of the thresh hold. Don't show all the income. So they cheat everyone by not collecting taxes which results in the rest of us paying more and in my case they use a government loophole as an unfair business advantage resulting in myself and others loosing revenue that supports our families.

It doesn't make any sense for those guys to avoid registering for GST. It might give them a price advantage, but 5% isn't that much. More importantly, they don't get to claim back the GST on all their business costs like fuel, maintenance, parts, gear, etc. Doing a GST return is a bit of a pain but minor compared to payroll or Worksafe BC quarterly return.
 
They haven't registered because they are not business people. They are just guys with boats going fishing. They think it is something complicated and time consuming. Doing a quarterly gst return is about as simple as 1,2,3 if you keep proper books on a proper accounting program. Those who should of registered years ago are probably afraid of doing so now fearing they will be audited for those previous years. While it is only a 5% advantage at the time of sale now, not long ago it was 12%. 5% on a $800.00 full day trip is another $40.00 and 12% was another $96.00. So for someone calling around and getting prices starting at $500.00 for a full day and no tax, how do I compete? I've never lost an existing client to a guide working for less but I definetly have far to many first time callers never call back after inquiring about prices. More than in the past. Other guides I work with are having the same issue. If you are working for a lot of cash you aren't worried about claiming the gst credits back...as you are miles ahead of the game anyway.
 
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