Understanding tides??

[ChilliSpoons]

I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to salt water fishing and would like a better understanding of playing the tide game. Being more of a river fisherman I try to find comparisons to the flow of the river and the flow of the tides.

I understand that targeting certain tides when planning your day on the water is important but I'm unsure exactly how it effects "The Bite".

Is the strategy focused on where the bait will be concentrated or where the salmon will be? Obviously these are closely related.

How do tides effect the movement of salmon (slack, flood, high, low)?

Will bait concentrate on the back side of a island the same way that a fish will lay behind a rock in a river where there is a slack piece of water?

When the tide rushes through a narrow passage will it push the fish to find more sheltered water?

What about shoals and pinnacles?

 

[ryanb]

When you are talking tidal movement, the best fishing is usually around low tidal movement. Where you are looking at an inlet narrows such as the Cap mouth in Vancouver, it's easy because slack tide is slack tidal movement (current) more or less.

Now, when you start talking open water, things get a bit more complicated. Slack tide is often not aligned with slack current... And I believe each area has different effects, which are generally consistent with the tides in that area. For example an area I fish is often best around 4 hours after a slack tide. I'm certainly no expert, this is just what I've observed.

 

[TheBigGuy]

Fish will stack up in behind points and passes where a back eddy is created. Same with reefs and pinnacles, anything that provides a current break can a attract baitfish and Salmon. As already mentioned depending on the area you must use the current tables, not go by the high or low tide tables for the actual slack.

 

[finaddict]

Fish will stack up in behind points and passes where a back eddy is created. Same with reefs and pinnacles, anything that provides a current break can a attract baitfish and Salmon. As already mentioned depending on the area you must use the current tables, not go by the high or low tide tables for the actual slack.

BG is right . To expand on this, if you can find an underwater reef (usually associated with a point of land), try going over the reef in the same direction as the current about 5-10 feet off the bottom and raise and lower your depth as you go over the reef. If the fish are stacked on the lee side of the reef, it is not uncommon to hook up just as you go over the reef and drop down on the lee side.

 

[ChilliSpoons]

Would you cut across the Lee side of a small island perpendicular to the current flow? And then cut back across again? My river fishing brain tells me that this might be a good strategy to find the bait hiding from the current.

 

[Clint r]

BG is right . To expand on this, if you can find an underwater reef (usually associated with a point of land), try going over the reef in the same direction as the current about 5-10 feet off the bottom and raise and lower your depth as you go over the reef. If the fish are stacked on the lee side of the reef, it is not uncommon to hook up just as you go over the reef and drop down on the lee side.


Some one told me this same thing last summer. They prefer to troll with the current? Still being fairly green at the salt water fishing I've got to ask how come?

 

[TheBigGuy]

I am not a fish, so I can't say authoritatively. However, it is generally accepted that fish hold facing into the current. They have a small field of vision. The best chance for a trolled presentation to be visible to the fish is if it is approaching the fish from his front, not passing by from the rear where it can't be seen. Also in strong currents if you are trolling into the current you must troll very slowly or your bait will be spinning wildly. At times you could actually be losing ground in a very strong current to have your bait spinning at a normal speed. The chances of hitting fish increases with the amount of water you cover, so trolling at a fast speed over water puts your gear in front of more fish. Although you are moving far faster, it is easier to have your gear working at a more fish attracting rate of spin in the water trolling with the current flow, rather than against it.

When I was younger and far more inclined to work my gear hard I would often do a tack that was productive running with the current for 2-3 miles, then pull my gear and run back up current to repeat the same run. This was often far more productive than trolling back against a strong current to where I started from.

There have been other posts on this same topic over the years so you might want to do a search to find similar threads.

 

[advTHXance]

You cover more ground trolling with the current as opposed to fighting against it. Some say the fish can see your lure better as they swim into the current, but I catch enough fish trolling both ways to not notice too much of a diff. When the current is really running, its much more effective to haul your gear up and the end of a tack and reset to the "top" of the flow.

Salmon are programmed to save energy when possible just like any other fish or animal, so they will often hide out in back eddies or behind structure that gives them a break from the current. Similar to seams on a river, a salmon will sit in the slower water and watch the faster water go by, darting out to feed.

Where I fish I tend to rely more on the current tables than the tides but I take both into consideration. Quite often the bite times coincide with a tide or current change but not always.

 

[Dogbreath]

Some one told me this same thing last summer. They prefer to troll with the current? Still being fairly green at the salt water fishing I've got to ask how come?

Fish face into the current (or just beside it*) and wait for food to be brought/washed to them.

Also trolling with the current means you have the gear working the way it should not bucking a 5 knot stream and dangling waythehellandgone behind the boat.

*sometime Salmon are waiting just outside the current watching baitfish being tumbled around-they wait until the perfect meal presents itself then dart in and grab it-that's why you should always be working the side of a rip that's moving if you can.

Seals too use the same situation to catch unwary Salmon see it many times just off Vanier Park there's a strong cold current that cuts across in front of the dog beach and it traps baitfish like a wall and Salmon & Seals are often there especially later in the season.

 

[Filletandrelease]

Load tides4fishing.com on your phone. Very informative and lots of info on tides and the position of the moon. I usually follow this site pretty closely up here on the Sunshine Coast and we seem to find the fish ok.

 

[ChilliSpoons]

Load tides4fishing.com on your phone. Very informative and lots of info on tides and the position of the moon

Thanks, I give that a try.

 

[ericl]

This is an extremely complex subject; there are area's where tides have a large affect, area's where they have a small affect, & everything in-between. Then there are feeding Salmon versus mature Salmon on a spawning migration.
Also realize that those who know this subject are guides. If a guide were to say "Sooke is only good on a tide change of less that 7 feet, (just an example) that would tend to be bad for business.
To find where Salmon & baitfish are you need a great depth sounder.
Where do you plan to fish?

 

[ChilliSpoons]

I'll be in Nootka this August, Sooke in April, and maybe a couple of trips around Bowen in the spring.

I'm trying to get a better understanding to help me with any future outings. The goal is to make rational decisions over wild guesses.

 

[TheBigGuy]

As Eric stated some areas don't seem hugely affected by the tidal flow or direction. Alberni Inlet would be one example. In my experience in Alberni Inlet it doesn't seem to matter a whole lot, although it does pay to fish the slack tides there. Go out to Barkley Sound, and it's a completely different story.

Generally, in any area with lots of islands the fishing will be more dramatically affected by tidal flows. Islands restrict current flow, passes between islands can generate huge current velocities in some locations. In many of those fast moving waters inside passes and narrow channels there is only a very breif window to fish when the tide has gone completely slack. You can deduce the area behind islands that may hold fish by applying the same principals you use when fishing rivers.

If you are fishing a new area with lots of islands keep detailed notes on what areas produced on different periods of the tide. Don't just record if it was an incoming or ebb tide. Record all the details like the duration of the tide and the number of feet of the exchange. Record the water color, weather, moon phase, bait prevalence, lures used, depths fished, etc, etc. Any and all details recorded help figuring out patterns when learning a new area. After a while with detailed notes you will know exactly what areas to hit on a similar tide. Only experience teaches you how to fish a new area with lots of islands. There's really no substitute for time on the water when learning a new area. That's why guides are invaluable in those kinds of areas. They have that huge data base of information from years of fishing the area, (even if it's all just stored in their head). After a while you won't need to refer to your notes, then you'll be a pro too.

 

[ericl]

Get this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Where-find-salmon-Robert-Merriman/dp/0887920071

Has illustrations on where to fish based on tide.

FYI it is from the "pre-downrigger days"

Match the illustrations to bottom contour maps:

http://webapp.navionics.com/?lang=en#boating@6&key=s_{bHjtpiV

A pattern will come to you allowing you to predict areas not covered in the book.

 

[tubby]

If your a newbie, don't over think it. For salmon, fish all the known hot spots or where other boats are fishing. As with river fishing, presentation is the key, the combinations of bait and artificials are almost endless. Most experience fisherman can go to a new spot and adjust to the different tides and conditions that are throw at them but you have to have confidants with what's at the end of your line. This comes from both experience and knowledge.....knowledge can be gained by research!

 

[TheBigGuy]

I found an interesting factoid that may also partly explain why it is better to troll with the current.

"In moving water, sound travels upward when you move your bait against the current. Conversely, sound moves downward when you move your bait with the current."

Generally we try to troll our lines above the depth most fish are holding at. If you are trolling with the current with your bait presented slightly above, the fish should be able to see and hear it approaching better than if trolling against the current.

 

[Rayvon]

I think it would be greatly appreciated if the forum mods would post tides and currents ,maybe in the resources section.It's pretty easy to find tides elsewhere but I do have a hard time looking up future dates to go halibut fishing on favourable slow current days.I know there are current prediction computer programs out there but I haven't found one for my "Mac" yet. Can anybody out there provide,recommend one?

 

[agentaqua]

I found an interesting factoid that may also partly explain why it is better to troll with the current.
"In moving water, sound travels upward when you move your bait against the current. Conversely, sound moves downward when you move your bait with the current."
Generally we try to troll our lines above the depth most fish are holding at. If you are trolling with the current with your bait presented slightly above, the fish should be able to see and hear it approaching better than if trolling against the current.

That's interesting, TBG - never heard of that - it would be more interesting to know what the author bases this statement on.

My understanding of sound propagation in water is that as sound is slowed upon reaching denser water or meeting a density barrier - it is deflected/refracted away from areas of denser water - like how light is refracted in lenses. That's how U-Boats could sometimes slip quietly and unheard/unnoticed in/out of the Mediterranean near Gibraltar in WWII - by getting below the thermocline/halocline at the interface of the less-dense surface waters - into the deeper, cooler and more dense waters where the sonars/asdic from the surface ships couldn't penetrate: https://maritime.org/doc/uboat/#par254

In addition, lower frequency sounds penetrate more - while higher frequency sounds are absorbed. That's why one switches transducer frequency into the lower bands for deeper water: http://resource.npl.co.uk/acoustics/techguides/seaabsorption/

That also opens the door to what sounds can fish detect or what frequencies by species - and what sound frequencies are generated by any lure.

I would think the depth of your troll would have way more to do with whether the fish see and hear your bait - especially near river discharges/plumes where there is often a substantial layer of fresher water (sometimes up to 8m in depth, but generally less - like 2-3m) over top of a denser salty water layer.

Additionally - when holding - fish often turn and face the current. If you troll from behind them - they may not see the lure/bait - or not see it quickly enough to react...

 

[advTHXance]

I think it would be greatly appreciated if the forum mods would post tides and currents ,maybe in the resources section.It's pretty easy to find tides elsewhere but I do have a hard time looking up future dates to go halibut fishing on favourable slow current days.I know there are current prediction computer programs out there but I haven't found one for my "Mac" yet. Can anybody out there provide,recommend one?

http://www.dairiki.org/tides/map.php/kell:d Heres a map of relevant tide and current stations.

The one I use most for fishing around Sidney is http://www.dairiki.org/tides/daily.php/kell