trolling (cut plug?) flounder for Springs

[dog]

Really...I was wondering if maybe one reason feeder Springs sometimes bite when you drag your rigger ball through the mud is because they come over to see if there are any easy pickings bottom fish up for grabs.

Do you think Winter Springs eat little flounders or sole or whatever other little flat bottom fish?

And is it permitted to try trolling them as bait?

One more similarly twisted question while I am on a roll...Do you cut your plug herring angles with the port or starboard side of the herring short. I usually cut the port side short. thanx..Dog with cabin fever.

 

[Fishinnut]

II doubt they are eating bottomfish. I have never cut one open to find any in them. I make it a habit to check bait in the stomachs to size up what spoon, bait, or hootchy size.

We teach a lot of people how to fish for all kinds of salmon. Blackmouth are primarily feeders that hang out at 90-120 feet deep of water. During slack tide they can be anywhere, top water, mid depth, anywhere. I like to put a dep six out between two downriggers at about 40' on the line counter reel. This usually is the slowest rod but can be he one that can pick up that occasional 10-12 pounder.

They can also be caught at 150-240 deep, but it is not as likely. They are near the bottom most of the time rooting out candlefish that are in the mud. Look for scrapes on the gill plates of your chinook. If there are scrapes you need to be scratching bottom, cause that is where they are getting their scrapes from.

There have been times when the fish suspend off of ledges down 100-200' in 200-300' feet of water. This is usually off the side of a sharp drop. I believe the bait is being washed out there.

 

[vi fly]

In C.R. we have been know to drag the bottom at the hump and area with our leads though the mud and have our flasher hoochies/spoons or tomics about 10 15 feet up. The springs would have huge Needle fish in their guts. Evan squid down there sometimes. But I too have never seen soul, flounder, rockcod, etc. I have seen hake and small pacific grey cod in the 4 to 6 inch range. Not always feeders either, we get some decent fish doing that too. Odd 30+ and lots in the 20s.

 

[dog]

ok Thanks for that vi fly & f*nnut, I also just saw the good post the by T2 saying similar in the commercial fishermens thread.

ok forget the flat fish, carrying on with the argueably silly plug cutting question part-2...here in the Northern hemisphere... do you cut your plug herring angles with the port or starboard side of the herring short. I usually cut the port side short.

I know there are other plug threads going, but those are not about the meat.

 

[Fishinnut]

I cut mine short side port side from habit. I really don't think a fish cares which way a bait is spinning. for springs I would say it is spinning so fast that it wouldn't be able to tell. Never really tried this. I have talked to guys that run the fish flash with a herring behind it and they cut it to spin the opposite way of the fish flash. The fish flash is a triangle pc of plastic that spins and has no drag. They usually run 5-6' of leader behind it.

We use it more in estuary or river close to the ocean, i.e. Columbia River.

 

[wetbeaver]

trolling fluonder, come on, why would you even bother, i dont mean to be a prik but that is just silly. with all the great fishing tackle out there this guy wants to try flounder. as they say shoot yourself. how would you get any proper action out of a flounder? would you spend an hour catching them before you started salmon fishing? would you use a flasher or just drag it lifelessly along the bottom? How would you rig the hook setup? Have you ever seen a spring with flounder in it? i never have, stick to herring and chovies they work great!!!! and they are easy to use

 

[victoriaboater]

No need to get snippy on people for asking questions. Ya dont know if ya dont ask.

Bottom bouncing on sandy bottoms stirs up the needle fish and creates some action attracting the salmon as far as I know.

 

[wetbeaver]

wasnt getting snippy just my opinion. when you ask questions you should be open to all kinds of answers. Try all the flounder you want>

 

[saltybeaver]

Wetbeaver did not mean any harm with that. He has not fished in over a week he gets like that.

 

[wetbeaver]

no harm havent fished in over a week maybe when i do i'll try flounder.

 

[saltybeaver]

d...

 

[Rum Buddies]

quote:I like to put a dep six out between two downriggers at about 40' on the line counter reel.

Stupid question, but why wouldn't you just run another clip on the downrigger and deep six the deep six? I've noticed on some american sites they still talk about planers and the like.

I realize everyone can't afford downriggers, but if you have downriggers it just seems silly to use something like that if you have other options.

 

[wolf]

Just to comment on this I dont think you are allowed to use a flounder as bait I think I remeber seeing something like that in some old regs correct me if i am wrong, its not considered bait fish just like you cant use a live salmon for hali etc.


Wolf

 

[Last Chance]

quote:Originally posted by wolf

Just to comment on this I dont think you are allowed to use a flounder as bait I think I remeber seeing something like that in some old regs correct me if i am wrong, its not considered bait fish just like you cant use a live salmon for hali etc.
Wolf

I think that your bait would have to meet all size/limit requirements, and be used on non-restricted gear for the species unless you have a proof of purchase for it.

 

[Fishinnut]

Poppa Swiss, We do stack the downrigger clips. But for some reason we seem to pull in a nice bigger fish sometimes on the deep six. It is not the double deep six with the deeper diving 5 oz weight on it. This will get into your downrigger lines. I use the lighter weighted older style ones. For big summer kings in the 30-50# mark we do really well with them. Those fish seem to cruise back behind the boat a little ways and up pretty high in the water column. We have done the same at times with the winter springs. Nice bigger fish.

 

[wolf]

Last chance I simply do not know?????? the regs we get are just a guide I know there is a book with All the rules and regs in it maybe someone on here knows the rules, put it to you this way I personally would not do it, and I would phone or get confirmation BEFORE you do that.


Wolf

 

[Last Chance]

quote:Originally posted by wolf

Last chance I simply do not know?????? the regs we get are just a guide I know there is a book with All the rules and regs in it maybe someone on here knows the rules, put it to you this way I personally would not do it, and I would phone or get confirmation BEFORE you do that.
Wolf

It would probably be a good idea for us to get a copy, would be good for the local guiding community to have one handy. I'll make some phone calls. I guess this means that I have to stop trolling for seals with live grilse off the waterfront (Kidding of course)

 

[dog]

I know it was a nutty question Beaver. I did not think of sand lance being down there. Was just guessing at flat bottom fish being the only thing down there.

I am certainly not short on tackle ideas. I already have so much tackle, I usually have a hard time deciding what to run. I bring four tackle boxes in the boat every time I go out, the biggest of which is a cardboard file box. My spoon box has actually become heavy, and has nothing but spoons in it.

I was just thinking about my best day this year, when four times in a row, we dragged the ball across a 75 foot hump with 100 on the rigger counter and picked up a Spring each time.

I was also thinking that small flounder would probably be much easier for a lazy Spring to catch and eat than feisty herring or sardinus-pilchardus. Like candy from a baby. Also was thinking the big white flash from the bottom of a 2 or 3 inch wide flat bottom fish might be easy to see. I did not get as far as how to tie them, although I am sure you could figure out a way to get a mental girls gone wild barrel roll out of one if you set your mind to it.

I like to try different ideas out. I usually put small pink hootchies inside my other hootchies like guts. I put glow eyes on all my spoons. Occaisionally put extra fluorescent glow green and red paint spots on my spoons. Green on the lateral line. Red in the roe hole area. Whatever. If I do something different and it works, I find it more satisfying. dog.

 

[saltydawg]

You guys crack me up. Cut plug flounder???
A better question might be- What have you found in a salmons stomach?
If a bunch of guys start replying Flounder, sign me up. Personally the only thing I find are herring, squid and chewed up little fishies. If I boat a tight fish stomach, I try to check if I have time. Otherwise only later at the cleaning station do you find out the size and type of feed.

On the subject of bottom bouncing, I think it works because the fish are conditioned to pick up feed from bottom disturbance. Look at when they're in the river. If you snorkel with salmon fingerlings and churn up the bottom, you get a huge mess of little guys darting around in front of your mask and between your toes.
So.... if you take this train of thought to the next level, what churns up the bottom really good?
Grey Whales thats what! Yup, Grey Whales. The next time you see Grey Whales feeding you need to right away fish some cut plug flounder!!!

I'm just kidding

 

[Eagle Eyes]

actually i have seen flounder in chinooks stomachs...several times (im not kidding), however those offshore westcoast feeders are super aggressive, ive seen them take massive halibut scampis right beneath the boat so i wouldnt say their picky. would i try it for chinooks? probly not.

however, if you want to catch big bottomfish, particularly halibut...well ill leave that up to you.