The George Zimmerman Trial.......

[Seafever]

Anybody here happen to be following this trial?

If so I have a couple of questions for you...

Trayvon Martin was straddling George Zimmerman when he was shot by Mr. Zimmerman.

They have never mentioned what type of holster G.Z. was wearing......or which side of his body it was on.

or which hand he personally used to pull the gun from it's holster and fire.

Trying to figure out how you can pull a gun from a holster when someone is straddling you with knees in your side blocking access.....

unless it was some kind of frontal shoulder holster?.......

They've never re-enacted this bit so far yet.........

 

[Rockfish]

What I have wondered about this trial and the USA's bizarre “stand your ground” laws which basically give you a free pass if you pull out your hidden hand gun and shoot someone because you think you are being threatened and your life is in danger; is this:

Was it not the 17 year old kid the one who was being threatened and feeling in fear of his life. There you are walking home from the corner store in your own community, minding your own business when some angry, confrontive, nut bar gets out of a vehicle and starts following/chasing after you. Had Trayvon had a gun and pulled it out and shot Zimmerman would these same laws not have protected him? My guess is not and there would very much be a double standard if you are a young black man who tried to claim protection from these type laws after getting into a confrontation and shooting and killing someone on the street.

I am not even sure there would be probable cause for an actual police officer to have chased after and stopped Trayvon, let alone some patrolling, self appointed, vigilante, racial profiling, pissed off, wannabe police officer who ignores the direction of a 911 operator not to get out of vehicle to chase after (only in his own mind) a criminal suspect of some unknown crime with the mind set as he stated to the 911 operator, because he was ”getting away”. Then gets into a confrontation/fight and ends up shooting and killing some innocent unarmed kid.

What's the message here, that everyone needs to carry a hidden handgun and you better make sure you draw first because it's the Wild West out there and if you are the one still standing you can claim protection under the 'stand your ground' laws. Only in the USA.

 

[Dave H]

Zimmerman's gun was in a holster on the right side of his waistband, loaded with one in the chamber so all he had to do is pull the trigger. That's the way LEO's and the military normally carry their weapons. Zimmerman was and is neither, which raises questions also.
Given the variety of scenarios created by Zimmerman as to what happened we'll never really know how he managed to grab it while mounted I suspect.
In one story he struggled with Martin for control of it. He even described how Martin was holding it and where on the gun. No Martin DNA anywhere on the gun though.
In another he claims he pinned Martin's arm so he couldn't grab the gun as Martin was going for it, pulled it out then shot Martin.
In another he claims he had forgotten he had the gun with him........really a whopper IMHO......then realized he had it when Martin went for it.
Sure.

And this case has nothing to do with the "stand your ground" law at all. The defense made that clear right at the beginning.

Zimmerman is claiming self-defense, something he received an A in when he studied it, according to the guy who taught him. Of course Zimmerman claimed he'd never heard of the stand your ground and/or self-defense laws earlier during an interview on Fox News with Sean Hannity, which is interesting.

Zimmerman is a liar and had he not been emboldened by the fact he was packing a loaded and ready to fire handgun that night none of this would have happened.
He profiled a young black kid, followed him and according to testimony confronted him. Obviously a fight began and Zimmerman was punched in the nose and ended up on his back on the ground. He had one small cut of 4/5ths of an inch and another of 1/5th of an inch on the back of his head, neither of which was serious nor what one would expect to see had his head actually been "slammed" into the concrete or pavement numerous times, as he claimed.
And with a 40 plus pound weight advantage and recent MMA training Zimmerman wasn't on his back for long as the blood track from his head wounds could not have flowed where they did had he been on his back the whole time. Gravity still works. How could blood flow uphill to the front of his ears?
I think he reversed positions, pulled his gun with his right hand whilst holding Martin by the front of his shirt(s) then shot him.
That's why we hear screams because Martin now knew what was about to happen to him. Note how the screams stopped an instant after the shot was fired too. Would you be screaming for help when you had a gun in your hand?

But we'll never know.

He'll walk on Murder Two though, I'm convinced of that.

Sad case all around.


Take care.

 

[Seafever]

Dave H:- thanks for adding a bit more info...

I was figuring if he had the gun in a waistband holster it would be pretty tough to get at it with his right hand as Trayvon's left leg would have been in the way if he went to draw the gun with Trayvon on top of him.

I tried duplicating this scenario with my wife last night......pretending she was Zimmerman.

I straddled her and said "ok...now reach down and try to pull the imaginary gun from your waistband holster".

She couldn't do it....my leg was blocking her.

p...we watch crime shows all the time and get right into the forensics, scenarios, etc.......).

 

[trophywife]

Dave H:- thanks for adding a bit more info...

I was figuring if he had the gun in a waistband holster it would be pretty tough to get at it with his right hand as Trayvon's left leg would have been in the way if he went to draw the gun with Trayvon on top of him.

I tried duplicating this scenario with my wife last night......pretending she was Zimmerman.

I straddled her and said "ok...now reach down and try to pull the imaginary gun from your waistband holster".

She couldn't do it....my leg was blocking her.

p...we watch crime shows all the time and get right into the forensics, scenarios, etc.......).

sounds kinky? any photos of the crime scene?

 

[Seafever]

It's not what you think......we were in fact actually trying to recreate the scenario to see if it could be easily done....

 

[Fish Assassin]

You really need to get out fishing....... Seems you have way to much spare time.

 

[tains]

X 2 Fa. So glad I cut cable 7yrs ago.

 

[Seafever]

I'll probably be out this next week......tides are good. Had a setback.....caught my left finger in a hedgetrimmer and took it down to the bone for seven stitches 3 days ago. Then I took antibiotics and those were worse than the cut. Hurled my guts up. Then because I was groggy from antibiotics I missed my footing and fell down the stairs.

All in a day's fun.......

 

[Gunsmith]

Stay where you are! Nobody moves nobody gets hurt! Wow hope your luck changes.

I'll probably be out this next week......tides are good. Had a setback.....caught my left finger in a hedgetrimmer and took it down to the bone for seven stitches 3 days ago. Then I took antibiotics and those were worse than the cut. Hurled my guts up. Then because I was groggy from antibiotics I missed my footing and fell down the stairs.

All in a day's fun.......

 

[reelfast]

interesting that you Canadians feel free to point fingers and elaborate on the crazy stuff that goes on in the US but when I, for example, point out the destruction of the boreal forests, the worlds dirtiest fuels trying to find an export port, you inability to deal with net pens, your lack of support for Alex Morton, your ongoing destruction of your environment, why you simply go ballistic.

the classic double standard is in full display with this thread.

 

[spring fever]

I don't think we go ballistic-feel free to comment on our culture ,our laws, the mounties, our senate, even our prime minister. I would tread a little carefully when you talk stewardship of the environment- The US is less than squeeky clean on your environmental stewardship, ie coal fired plants, Nuc plants on the California coast right on a fault line, Where are your forests, the exon valdez wasn't ours, the blowout in the gulf of mexico wasn't ours, 3 mile island wasn't ours. You have enough environmental challenges to worry about down your way rather than spending time pointing fingers at us. We are not one of your national parks-yes we have problems-but they are ours and ours to deal with-not yours.

 

[baddogg]

Well said Spring Fever, Bravo!!! Not sure how this became an US vs Them thread.

 

[Seafever]

Reelfast:- I personally wasn't trying to expose the falibilities of the U.S. If it had happened any other place I would be just as interested.

I was just as interested in the Jody Arias trial.... and also the Casey Anthony trial.

The media up here often likes to sweep our stuff under the carpet as quickly as possible...as in the William Pickton case
which disappeared off the radar so fast I'm still not exactly sure what happened.

My interest in the Zimmerman case is not one of gun control laws or how states differ on self defense rule.....it was strictly,at this point, to figure out how he did what he claims.

Yes...we have our faults up here allright.....and I'm not a U.S. "hater" myself......well..o.k...I didn't like George Bush 2 but other than that no problem.........been to the U.s. lots of times and will still be going there.....

If this thread comes across as a jab at the U.S., I assure you it was not intended to be.........

I watch a lot of late night t.v.....and such programs as Jane Velez-Mitchell,HLN After-Dark, Piers Morgan and Anderson Cooper 360 all carry these trials.

Up here all we have right now is fat senators overspending their expense accounts.... and fat mayors allegedly smoking crack.......

 

[spring time]

see zimmerman was found not quilty

 

[Seafever]

It appears that Zimmerman was a bit of a ***** when it came to defending himself hand -to-hand. His MMA instructor said he was "soft". And that after a year (yes...a year) of MMA training he was still basically useless.

I think that's why he packed a locked and loaded gun around all the time. Because he knew that he could always take
the easiest way out if he got in a tussle. Which he did.

He didn't bring a knife to a gunfight...he brought a gun to a fistfight.

I've seen schoolyard fights on YouTube where those involved took a lot more blows than he did......and they never resorted to using guns.

He was well versed in Florida law...and took advantage of it.

If he hadn't been packing a gun...what then ? Would GZ have been killed by Trayvon?.....I doubt it.

If you are in a tussle with someone and you see they have a gun, that ups the ante. You are pretty well forced to escalate your response out of fear they will use it on you.

If George Zimmerman can't defend himself without a gun....or if he can't use verbal communication skills more effectively...then maybe he should give up his 'wannabe cop' role, stay out, and leave the job to professionals.

"Neighborhood watch" is just that........watching. It is not "Neighborhood Wyatt Earp".

 

[reelfast]

circumstantial evidence did not sway the jury. unfortunately, our gun laws encourage these sorts of encounters. it is interesting that in FL, a black woman fired a warning shot and was given 10 years in prison not too long ago. one has to wonder about that state, their mindset and really what had happened. unfortunately we will never know the truth in this situation other than another tragedy for a teenager.

 

[Clipper]

I think it's a tragedy for all involved. Do you think Zimmerman will have any sort of 'normal' life after this? What is also tragic is the way the left stream media portrayed this as a 'colour' issue when it clearly was not. I think the jury brought home the correct verdict as the prosecution did NOT make their case.

 

[Seafever]

The media had it all wrong.

It wasn't about race...and it wasn't about who smoked marijuana.

It was about " here in Florida we have a Stand Your Ground law. Does that mean I can blow somebody away if it looks like I'm losing?".......answer:- yes

All the women on the jury probably went pro-Zimmerman...because they put themselves in his shoes and thought "well, I'm a woman, and I can't physically stand up to people.....so I'll have to pack a gun just in case."

They say it's about justice........but jury selection was paramount in this case.
If it's about being judged by your peers then selection shoudn't be so important....but it is.


In order for Zimmerman to be in court for prosecution, he first had to put himself in a postion to facilitate it.

He did just that.

No markings on his truck to identify it as "neighborhood watch"
No markings on him to identify same.
He may have not 'stalked'...but he was 'provoking' and moving himself closer to an armed encounter.
He continued on until he was in position for a confrontation.

In other words he put himself at the crime scene by his own endeavors.

Is Zimmerman accountable and responsible for his part in the event?
According to the jury..........no

Personally I don't feel sorry for Zimmerman and "what he has to live with".......he made his bed and slept in it....and then shot a hole in it.

If you are carrying "concealed" with one in the chamber and the safety off...it's for sure you have it in the back of your mind that a situation is going to come up......

 

[reelfast]

I think it's a tragedy for all involved. Do you think Zimmerman will have any sort of 'normal' life after this? What is also tragic is the way the left stream media portrayed this as a 'colour' issue when it clearly was not. I think the jury brought home the correct verdict as the prosecution did NOT make their case.

I guess you didn't listen to the stream of racial slurs Zimmerman uttered to the 911 dispatcher in describing the teenager. Zimmerman had a choice, the kid didn't. all of the gun toting idiots in the US rarely consider the consequences, in advance, of dropping the hammer on another human being. Zimmerman will now receive his just deserts, for his lifetime.