Support your local hatchery!

[juandesooka]

quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

I love the idea of raising some money for salmon enhancement. In fact I would even consider co-ordinateing something if there is enough interest here? I know I could donate something to an auction. With the funds going towards Salmon Enhancement, maybe each year we could pick a different Hatchery to help out? Or perhaps we could look at buying our own hatchery with the proceeds of our fundraising? I have seen first hand that there are some portable hatcheries on the market, Maybe we could move it each year to a different river to help it out a bit. I can just imagine the red tape involved. But I would like to do something.

I think anything you can do to help is a step in the right direction. However, I think you have to be careful about randomly throwing fish into pens in rivers. There's more to it than that, and I think you can damage an ecosystem if you're not careful -- e.g., throwing 100 million chinook smolts into the Sooke River doesn't mean you'll have the best spring fishing ever in 5 years! It's not that easy.

Keep in mind there's a whole bunch of organizations out there already doing this, with a proven track record of success and backed by science. They are volunteer run and self-funded, and they need your support...so if you have time and energy to give, get involved with your local group. And if you can't give them time, then give a donation -- it will be used for a good cause, that's for sure.

re: rights and privileges. I guess fighting the political battles about dividing up the resource, conservation plans, etc., is another way to get involved. Personally, I find it kind of negative and it doesn't sit well with me -- feels like fighting it out for who will get the right or the privilege to catch the last of the wild salmon stock.

That's why I like the idea of getting involved in salmon enhancement: it is local, it is non-political, it unquestionably does good. Leave the political arguments and complaining to others, put your head down and get some good honest work done on making this better for future.

 

[chris73]

The Fish Assassin

quote:I get your point Wolf, but the fact that you think you have a "RIGHT" to fish, is what I am questioning. I just don't want your priviledge and my "rights" confused in any way.

All Canadians have the right as per constitution to have access to the resource FISH. Governments job is to define and regulate this access... There is no difference in Your Right and My Right only that the government ranks your higher, rightly or not...

The Fish Assassin

quoteerhaps we should look at it in a bigger picture. The natives and the sportfishermen basicly all want the same thing believe it or not, our goals are very similar. Both groups want to see the salmon stocks rebuilt in our rivers. It sure makes DFO's job a lot easier if we stand around on the docks and blame each other for declining stocks while the commercial boats go out and clean up what fish are left. I think that we could get alot accomplished if we worked together towards common goals, and perhaps form a society dedicated to rebuilding the salmon stocks in our local rivers. One that incorperates the needs of both groups. Of course that would require mutual respect, I think that both sides would need to put away there bad feelings for each other and look at the big picture and see that we could help the salmon more by working together. For the sake of the salmon I hope that both sides are ready for such an undertaking. I would like to think that we can all be on the same page when it comes to Salmon Restoration.

Totally agree. However, as long as one user group always thinks they are more important and have priority I can't see the mutual respect thing happening at equal eye level. Lopsided partners in such an important fight seems unrealistic.

The Fish Assassin

quote:I love the idea of raising some money for salmon enhancement. In fact I would even consider co-ordinateing something if there is enough interest here? I know I could donate something to an auction. With the funds going towards Salmon Enhancement, maybe each year we could pick a different Hatchery to help out? Or perhaps we could look at buying our own hatchery with the proceeds of our fundraising? I have seen first hand that there are some portable hatcheries on the market, Maybe we could move it each year to a different river to help it out a bit. I can just imagine the red tape involved. But I would like to do something.

Good idea. How about the Jordan River? Used to have salmon until the mine wrecked the river. Mine is gone, river opened up for fish passage, not sure what the sediment contamination levels are but might be worth looking at...

 

[Last Chance]

The Jordan river is wrecked except for a small channel, last I read online.

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

 

[chris73]

In what regard "wrecked", LC?

 

[Last Chance]

Water polluted from mining waste at some time.

http://www.bchydro.com/etc/medialib...n_river_salmon_spawning_assessment_and_en.pdf

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

 

[chris73]

Thanks LC! Very interesting document. However, after reading it all, we should be encouraged bringing this river back on track! The toxic influx by the old copper mine is minimal and affects a very limited area just at the confluence with a little ditch that runs right through the old mine site. Easy to fix: interecept this ditch and add rentention ponds and filtration sections to clean run off as much as possible. This will also deal with the silt inflow at this site. The rest of the river is fine except for the limited area of available spawning beds with suitable gravel (at this time good for 12 coho pairs). The lack of this is likely due to logging and resulting sudden run-off events that took out valuable gravel beds. Replant and protect riparian zone and add gravel in areas to increase spawning beds. Would be a wonderful project for keen volunteers...I would be in!

 

[juandesooka]

I read that report and was depressed...all that river, and only potential now for 12 spawning pairs? Think about all those miles of river up in the hills, and how full of fish this must have been long long ago, before mines, logging, and hydro dams.

Maybe, like Goldstream, someone could put hatchery fish back in with the intention of it just being a hatchery stream, not aimed at significant spawning (like all those coho banging their heads on the Goldstream dam, just up from the observation area).

But Chris, you post an excellent idea. If there's little useable area as is for spawning, what could be done to improve it? Could it become a viable spawning river again? I'm thinking of "Friends of Ayum Creek" in Sooke and similar organizations, where it is about fixing the habitat as much as the fish themselves. They don't play with fish eggs, they play with bulldozers!

"Friends of Jordan River" already exists in Michigan, but maybe something similar? Jordan River is politically very hot right now, with all the WFP and CRD issues...so add fish habitat restoration into the mix, and it's fuel on the fire. It's only partially related, but here's the lobby group against all the development plans: http://savejordanriver.com/

This may be complicated because of it also tying in issues of how much water BC Hydro is willing to let through the dam -- enough to raise fish, and not so much as to wash them all out when the spillway is opened.

 

[Pablo2079]

Collect brood stock in the winter and load up some incubators from Scotty. Never done it, but it seems like it might be a good option for the Jordan.

http://www.scotty.com/marine/incubator.html

 

[The Fish Assassin]

quote:Totally agree. However, as long as one user group always thinks they are more important and have priority I can't see the mutual respect thing happening at equal eye level. Lopsided partners in such an important fight seems unrealistic.

Perhaps we wouldn't think this way if the courts hadn't pointed it out to us that we do have priority access to the resource. I think if the "other" user groups actually respected our right to the fish that we could get on with what needs to be done rather than having to defend our rights which has been granted to us. There is nothing in the constitution that guarantees your right to fish, unlike the laws that DO protect my rights to fish. Call it what you will, but until more people are educated about the reason we have these rights that grant us priority access, things will never move ahead. The fisheries act is for you not me, when my rights were protected there was no Department of Fisheries, no Canada in fact! Therefore the laws of Canada pertaining to my rights to hunt and fish can not possibly apply. In fact I would sue DFO for infringement of my rights if they ever tried to stop me from "fishing as formerly". It is that simple. It has been over 150 years since it was accepted that we can hunt and fish as before settlement and most people are still uneducated. Why do you think government is so eager to sign a new treaty to restrict those rights? Many of the First Nations around the south coast have succumbed to DFO and have accepted money from them to run their fisheries department basically in return for policing their own people and setting harvest restrictions. I am proud to say that my own band hasn't backed down from our original position and taken the easy way of handouts from the government. We know what rights we have and dare the government to take us to court while we are exercising our protected rights.

The largest hurdle the salmon have is the division between the two user groups and the natives. The easiest way for all of us to deal with the problem of the salmon is to blame each other for their demise, then do nothing to help them, because lord knows you wouldn't want to put money and effort into the resource if the other guys are just going to catch all the fish anyway. All sides feel this way. Personally I hope that before it is too late we can all find the common ground we need to make things better for the salmon. For an example in Washington State they have given the Natives a larger share of the commercial TAC. We should learn from that and take some of the good things out of that and apply them here. The sooner we can get all of our problems out on the table and get them resolved the sooner we can all focus together on the bigger picture. The only possible winner would be the salmon and everyone who makes a living or feeds themselves from them. If we were serious about rebuilding the salmon stocks we could simply sea farm them. Giving us the ability to release more fry in rivers than we do now based on the fact that those fish would be caught before they had a chance to negatively impact the river systems they return to. Although I'm not totally convinced yet that being able to walk across the river on the backs of salmon would be a devastating event. I'm sure fisheries biologists could enlighten us as to why that would be so bad when after 10's of thousands of years they now set their own escapement goals and damb the remainder.



Take only what you need.

 

[Cuba Libre]

The Scotty incubators may seem like a quick fix, but before getting all excited about using them -- there are a couple of things you should know.--- They are best suited to trout enhancement where a couple of thousand eggs may make a difference. But for salmon, 10s of thousands of eggs are needed. In fact, a few years ago the DFO Community Advisor from Prince George did a calculation and discovered that in order to bury the eggs from one large female chinook, it would require a backhoe digging a pit in the streambed the size of a fridge! Not exactly environmentally friendly ( unless you live on the Fraser where digging gravel is excused under the guise of "flood protection" )

Also as an educational tool to teach school kids how eggs develop , the Scotty box is great-- but it will disappoint if you want to see increasing numbers of salmon.

So-- in order to not dwell on the negative? Whats person to do???

Well, to being with get in touch with the DFO Community Advisor for the area. The program has been running since 1979 and includes success stories such as Kanaka Creek, Little Campbell Hatchery, Oyster River Enhancment, Goldstream hatchery ,Fanny Bay Enhancement, Gillard Pass Fisheries Assocciation hatchery on the Phillips River and many others. No point of re-invention the wheel

And most importantly support the existing volunteer programs as DFO Habitat and Enhancement has been slowly strangled by lack of funding from Ottawa. Being at the end of the line, the volunteer outfits have really suffered a funding crunch so unless we help out, some are in danger of cutting production or going under from the frustration of constantly chasing operating dollars.




20ft Alumaweld Intruder

 

[scott craven]

Fish assassin, i give you credit for top notch arrogance [V]
and common sense at the same time

 

[wolf]

Its all good FA good to have a debate on a passion we both like!!!!!!
I still think it is my "right "to fish thats my opinion but you have yours thats what makes this forum good, ill agree to disagree ok LOL LOL. I will say one thing though Mr Bos worked very very hard to get back our fishing back on tract he did not sell out by any means.

There was a general meeting last year at esq anglers and hardly no one showed up , mostly guides and a few sporties. If there is another one of those disscussions I will be attending and I hope you will join me are you up for the challenge?????and anyone else on here if we join together and show a force DFO will have to pay attention. If not dont ***** and complain when they take fishing away from us!!!!!! When DFO takes things away YOU WILL never get it back.Can you imagine if they had a meeting and all of a sudden there is close to 100 fisherman wanting answers ill bet you one thing it would be an entertaining evening!!!!!!!

Good luck Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com

 

[chris73]

I was there Wolf and will be there again if the call comes. I want my voice to be heard.

juandesooka: That report is 3 years old and I think things at the Jordan have moved on and not for the worse. Ministry of Environment has worked on a deal with BC Hydro to release enough water for fish (I assume at all times) and I believe more passage ways were opened since. I will find out more about this... It's definately doable and as Cuba said, it has been done before and we may not be alone...

The Fish Assassin: Fair enough. I accept your point of view and understand the whole backgound of the story pretty well. But still, insisting on ancient rights won't bring us further with todays problems. The problems have evolved too far and it sounds like insisting on hunting dinosaurs when there is none left. Doesn't bring us further towards a common ground. There has to be a compromise from all stakeholders. But I would love to walk across a river on salmon backs...And I am sure the bears, orcas, sea lions, eagles and the forests would love to see this too...And isn't that part of the reason why we all live here?

 

[sundance]

quote:Originally posted by wolf

Fish assassin do you remember what happened last year with winter springs and the halibut????
Chris bos who defended us in every aspect For sportfishing he did tiresome hours to defend SPORT FISHING!!! and he is the voice behind the: "SPORT FISHING ADVISORY BOARD" (SFAB)

We all have a right to fish we all put money into it we all pay taxes,liscence fees,salmon stamps etc if it wasnt for YOU and I and everyone on the forum here!!!!! We wouldnt have fishing at all do you want to loose your right to go fishing???I dont think so, as we all love to do and go out in the outdoors to have fun.

It has nothing to do for my usage at all as a charter operator I am just like you too I like to go sportfishing dont get to do it as often as I want but s%&t happens LOL, I think you underestimate how important we all are to fishing we all create jobs and economy for our communities and cities and this province we call home.
hi wolf just to keep you updated chris bos is are south coast rep that go to battle on our salmon/halibut issues we have a lower south coast meeting coming up in mid nonember at esq anglers clubhouse there is always a dfo high profile member there and if you know chis he is relentless when it comes to dfo trying to screw us sporties,we have been fighting dfo for 35 yrs back in the bob wright,jim gilbert etc we have never given up you just dont hear about us ,so please attend if you want to give some imput as there some great talent fighting for you guys ,bring a couple of interested chums with you as is not closed doors ,gary caton[ director esq angler]
What I am talking about is we need more of a voice to protect what we cherish " Fishing "</u> thats all.

Thanks Wolf




Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com