Strategy for the Northern and Southern Resident Killer Whales

Once again we see a misinterpretation of the information in the scientific consensus. Most like you, have interpreted the panel conclusions to mean SRKW are AFRAID of boats. You then can self justify that the panel recommendations are incorrect if you see whales near sport fishing vessels, as clearly in your mind they are not afraid and the panel conclusions are invalid. This is not the panels conclusions. From the study "Action would specifically minimize acoustic interference with echolocation during hunting and communication between pod members, and would minimize physical interference from vessels that may disrupt surface chases, preclude prey sharing, or cause animals to cease foraging and move out of an area".

Only one part of it is animals avoiding the boats and the area. The fact they are in the Sooke area close to the boats indicates there are salmon there. The study isn't saying they will necessarily not come there or leave prematurely (which is possible, how do you know if they wouldn't be there longer ). but that while they are there their success rate is likely lower. Its hard not to imagine large numbers of sport boats, creating a moving maze of of lines with cannon balls on the end extending 50-200 feet down, with flashers trailing 20 feet behind, each with fish finders sending acoustic signals out, and kicker or main engines going might reduce the whales success in catching salmon. Add in the commercial and other recreational traffic in the area and its even more plausible.

Bit of mis-information going on here, with all due respect - although I do agree with the first quote offered. That second comment was indeed a comment from one of the workshop participants, however not based upon any science evidence or observation. There were other scientific opinions voiced at the workshop, and backed up by actual field observations.

Firstly, rec fishers are not pursuing RKW - unlike whale watchers who earn their living chasing RKW. In most instances the problematic vessel interference is not coming from recreational fishers.

Secondly, the vast majority of anglers recognize their success declines markedly when RKW are present, thus they move away from areas whales are actively foraging in.

Rec fishers are also on record asking for 400m spatial exclusion or "bubble zones" to help increase prey acquisition. We are suggesting DFO put into regulation a requirement for fishers (and other vessel operators) to immediately turn off their sounding equipment, and to slowly move away from whales when they are within 400m. This helps mitigate noise that impacts echolocation and physical disturbance that interrupts feeding.

A third point - prey acquisition isn't about scaring away whales per se, it is about disturbing the feeding habits - whales often chase prey for 100's of meters, therefore require vessels to be absent from those areas to be successful. The science workshop recommended that we needed to limit the degree of physical and acoustic disturbance by placing limits on the numbers of vessels to help reduce the cumulative impacts of vessel noise. There is strong evidence that shows that when the vessel noise is reduced, echolocation ease and foraging effort increases. There is a 18% reduction for NRKW and 25% reduction in SRKW feeding habits when vessels are present. Very clearly vessel traffic needs to be limited. Time spent foraging reduces when vessels are present - reducing their numbers and removing those that actively follow whales to observe them lessens the impact. There is also evidence that shows when vessels are present, whales will travel more and forage less. 200m is simply not enough, and further we need regulations that limit the number of commercial whale watching vessels to track pods of whales closely to help limit the accumulated vessel noise - what's wrong with taking turns to get customers within viewing range?

Some other key findings:

Sean Cox (SFU) - lead a NOAA and DFO Science Panel - providing expert opinion and conclusions;

a) Best potential for increased chinook catch available to SRKW is restoration of freshwater habitat; reduce downstream migration mortality
b) Skeptical reduced chinook harvesting would have large impact on abundance available to SRKW
c) Considerable caution warranted in interpreting the correlative results as confirming a linear causal relationship between chinook abundance & SRKW vital rates
d) Not confident that understanding the interaction between chinook salmon fisheries, other predators and SKRW vital rates, was sufficient to expect the model predictions to be accurate - the panel expected the model predictions to overstate the impacts of reductions of chinook salmon catch on SRKW.

Eric Ward (NWFSC)

- critical of DFO studies to "correlative link" indicies of salmon abundance to RKW demographics
- went on to say that studies such as these are problematic because they use low sample sizes, which result in estimates that are sensitive to time and areas samples being used

Let's not forget that one of the factors leading to reduced numbers of chinook has been successive governments in Canada have made decisions to reduce the funding available for DFO to enhance chinook and complete habitat restoration and protection work. What we are seeing today is the predictable end result of very poor leadership decisions that were motivated by short term budget balancing that ignored their duty to protect Chinook abundance. Now that the chickens have come home to roost it is politically expedient to find an easy scapegoat. The rec fishery was and is a low cost target. We never push back, and closing fisheries is a LOW cost option.

What politicians forget is they are making decisions that have unforeseen to them consequences - the rec fishery generates $713 million USD in economic activity to Canada every year. We can keep going around closing this rec fishery, and that rec fishery and not think there are consequences. However, just walk around some of these small coastal communities that rely on tourism once the rec fishery in their area winds down for the season...not much going on! All those businesses that rely upon servicing the rec fishery will slowly dry up and once that infrastructure is gone, it will be very hard to rebuild. Every action has a reaction.
 
I have fished Big Bank for over ten years. Not as long as some but still long enough. I’ve never once seen a killer whale there.

I spend a lot of money each year supporting this passion of mine. Whether it be in my local fish store, Ukee/Tofino or even just driving thru Port Alberni where I fuel up and buy food for my trips out there. There are other solutions to this problem than picking the seemingly low hanging fruit.

The recreational fisherman is simply a label that is bestowed upon us to organize the propaganda that is thrown our way. We aren’t as valuable as the other groups therefore it’s ok to use us as a punching bag for the plight of these whales. I’m fine with a bubble zone. But to be banned from one of my favorite fishing spots because of this is simply outrageous. When I’m out there I like to anchor and fish for bottomfish. So I’m not making a lick of noise.

I’d love to think common sense will prevail here but the Trudeau government doesn’t operate on common sense. They operate on making headlines that make you feel soft, warm and fuzzy on the inside. I fear the worst and hope for the best. This will be a devastating blow to Ukee and even Tofino if these closures happen. Especially Ukee.

In the end if we are serious about saving these whales then create the bubble zone and even reduce quota. Do it in a fair way where everyone participates. One group shouldn’t be unaffected while another group has to bear the brunt of burden from DFO mismanagement. Remember the folks that were trying to get a permit to release chinook fry from Central Lake a few years back and got jammed up?! Why isn’t that effort being duplicated so there is even more fish to enjoy?! There’s other solutions.
 
Do these groups not realize that salmon is a large part of most families diets that live in these coastal communities that they are proposing or have closed down. Do we not have the right to harvest fish to eat along our local shores, it's a big part of the way of life on the west coast. Or do they expect us to have to go to the pharmacy to pick up a bottle of fish oil to keep healthy.

Most local non profit hatcheries are funded by donations and grants, most donations come from sport fishermen giving back to these hatcheries.
The sad thing for us, is that you will always be able to go buy it from the grocery store. They make all of these cuts to the group of people who give back so much to the fishery, and put so much into the economy with through taxes on our boats, gear, tourism, guide income taxes etc.
But Joe Schmoe can just go buy however much he wants at Thrifty Foods. He can buy 10 springs every day if he wants.
It won’t be until the general public also feels the pain of cuts and closures when things will get looked at seriously by the government.
My guess is the government is throwing us under the bus to “look good” to the masses. But if the masses are also feeling screwed, the government has a real problem.
 
I have fished Big Bank for over ten years. Not as long as some but still long enough. I’ve never once seen a killer whale there.

I spend a lot of money each year supporting this passion of mine. Whether it be in my local fish store, Ukee/Tofino or even just driving thru Port Alberni where I fuel up and buy food for my trips out there. There are other solutions to this problem than picking the seemingly low hanging fruit.

The recreational fisherman is simply a label that is bestowed upon us to organize the propaganda that is thrown our way. We aren’t as valuable as the other groups therefore it’s ok to use us as a punching bag for the plight of these whales. I’m fine with a bubble zone. But to be banned from one of my favorite fishing spots because of this is simply outrageous. When I’m out there I like to anchor and fish for bottomfish. So I’m not making a lick of noise.

I’d love to think common sense will prevail here but the Trudeau government doesn’t operate on common sense. They operate on making headlines that make you feel soft, warm and fuzzy on the inside. I fear the worst and hope for the best. This will be a devastating blow to Ukee and even Tofino if these closures happen. Especially Ukee.

In the end if we are serious about saving these whales then create the bubble zone and even reduce quota. Do it in a fair way where everyone participates. One group shouldn’t be unaffected while another group has to bear the brunt of burden from DFO mismanagement. Remember the folks that were trying to get a permit to release chinook fry from Central Lake a few years back and got jammed up?! Why isn’t that effort being duplicated so there is even more fish to enjoy?! There’s other solutions.
Well said Augie.
Welcome the the forum, I look forward to reading more for your posts.
 
No attack Jackel IF you read what I said they were way out I had seen a lot of transients . alot of people do not know how to tell the difference. I asked the whale watching guy when I saw whales what they were just to reconfirm.
I also wrote the times I personally saw our J,K,L pod and it wasnt much to say the least I also have noticed less and less activity in the last 5 years . For instance last year the residents were gone for almost a month no where to be found and that was confirmed by the local whale watchers in one of the meetings... call all the ******** you want im on the water and see what I see I base things on Facts and nothing else.

im done
Wolf
Fair enough Wolf but the closure classed as Sooke, goes out to the border ( i didn't mean just close to the shore) so either way you and everyone else are getting totally screwed in Sooke. Sh*t look what happened with DFO last year when they had all the meetings etc. and wham they tighten the closure to Otter Point which was never discussed, i think we are in for a world of hurt.
 
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Nice to see almost everybody moving forward. I may not respect your opinion but respect the right for you to express your opinion, and I expect you to respect my right to disagree with you opinion.
As for who doesn't belong on this forum...........................
 
Just an FYI ..... I am keeping a watch on some of the mail-outs that GSA puts out and here is a segment that I cut and paste from the mail out.

Former Minister LeBlanc and Minister McKenna acknowledged four months ago that orcas do face these imminent threats.

Our lawsuit asks the Court to compel Ottawa to issue an emergency order because time is running out:

  • There have been no successful births in three years
  • They are showing signs of emaciation
  • There are fewer sightings of them in critical habitat

Note point number 3. All the comments in this thread stating that the SRKW have rarely been seen in the Sooke CH (and others have said about the La Perouse proposed CH) seem to be in alignment with what GSA says above. BUT interestingly they use that information instead to emphasize their position rather than it is a reason NOT to have areas made CH.
 
I am a retired computer consultant mainly working with mission critical computer systems - when they are done, 1st priority is to get them back-up; root cause analysis takes a back seat.

The way I see it that is where we are at in regards to the SRKW; system down, emergency action required.

Things are gonna get tried to see if they work based on the best information available. The enviro's are asking for status checks no more often than every 5 years & the science side is saying recovery will take more than 25 years.

As can be seen so far with DFO's handling of this, our opinions are not required nor welcome. I think a good case can be made to stop the Langara/La Perouse critical area's but if you are gonna dig in & give them the finger on every issue then beyond this forum you won't get very far.
 
Note point number 3. All the comments in this thread stating that the SRKW have rarely been seen in the Sooke CH (and others have said about the La Perouse proposed CH) seem to be in alignment with what GSA says above. BUT interestingly they use that information instead to emphasize their position rather than it is a reason NOT to have areas made CH.

Take a look at the link posted by wildmanyeah to the orca watch sightings for the Salish Sea (doesn't cover Sooke BTW). A significant number of sightings have been of Transient Orca's; hopefully they are thinning out the pinniped population
 
The apparent lack of SRKW this Summer in Area 18 just confirms the information that was provided to DFO this Spring by the local residents and sports fleet during the sham "consultation process". The Transients seem to have moved into the SOG, southern Gulf Islands and Puget Sound area and the Residents have shifted their attention to the JDF and outside areas. The ridiculous closure of Area 18 to all fin fishing from May 1 to Sept 30 needs to be re examined and corrected from the knee jerk political reaction that it was.
 
The apparent lack of SRKW this Summer in Area 18 just confirms the information that was provided to DFO this Spring by the local residents and sports fleet during the sham "consultation process". The Transients seem to have moved into the SOG, southern Gulf Islands and Puget Sound area and the Residents have shifted their attention to the JDF and outside areas. The ridiculous closure of Area 18 to all fin fishing from May 1 to Sept 30 needs to be re examined and corrected from the knee jerk political reaction that it was.
Man, do I hope that happens. Has anybody heard anything about somebody representing us and trying to talk some sense into the DFO? SVIAC perhaps?
 
WELL I personally just watched Dr Pol the vet and he said ALL animals that are sick and have parasites do not want to eat they want to relax and not be bothered( hhhhhhmmm have to wonder being chased by whale boats....) I think we need to bring him up here, and work his magic on our whales... LOL LOL
 
K & L pods were foraging for a good two hours off the mouth of Sooke Harbour this morning. They were chasing and feeding on Coho in anywhere from 350 to 600 ft of water. All on board my boat saw a bull and female actively feeding in one spot for about 40 minutes. When they surfaced the gulls were picking off small scraps off the surface. Sport fishing boats and whale watching boats were in the area as well...lots of both. The whale watchers were operating in a proper manner....keeping their distance and moving slowly in parallel with the whales they were observing. All the whales were spread out and spending lots of time under water...telling me they were diving down deeper to chase fish. We first saw them at about 10:30 and they were still in the area at 1pm when we left.
 
K & L pods were foraging for a good two hours off the mouth of Sooke Harbour this morning. They were chasing and feeding on Coho in anywhere from 350 to 600 ft of water. All on board my boat saw a bull and female actively feeding in one spot for about 40 minutes. When they surfaced the gulls were picking off small scraps off the surface. Sport fishing boats and whale watching boats were in the area as well...lots of both. The whale watchers were operating in a proper manner....keeping their distance and moving slowly in parallel with the whales they were observing. All the whales were spread out and spending lots of time under water...telling me they were diving down deeper to chase fish. We first saw them at about 10:30 and they were still in the area at 1pm when we left.

At 200M i hope they gave their guests binoculars, I took some video this year when some SRKW went through the fishing fleet fishing out front of the Fraser. We were probably less then 200m and the viewing conditions in flat seas were pretty poor

 
Very interesting and devoid of hysteria SV.
 
I would reply to this thread but in consideration of offending a few of the weak kneed i will refrain from comment.... group hug. carry on
 
Great video SpringVelocity; thanks. FYI this about 1 year old now & I still wanna listen to the whole 7 hour symposium as he did not address the birth rate & infant mortality issues:


I'd say that I am in close agreement with him; especially on the recovery goals. I do not see anything in the video that would change the future outlook for Chinook fishing.
 
Great video SpringVelocity; thanks. FYI this about 1 year old now & I still wanna listen to the whole 7 hour symposium as he did not address the birth rate & infant mortality issues:


I'd say that I am in close agreement with him; especially on the recovery goals. I do not see anything in the video that would change the future outlook for Chinook fishing.
Well I guess if the fin fish closures and establishment of whale sanctuaries is deemed the answer, it will eventually spread across the border to the SanJuans and Puget Sound, so it may change the outlook for Chinook fishing.Are you involved in lobbying your government for these measures?
 
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