Sooke- the new Mexico
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Rum Buddies
Well-Known Member
Good to hear, just a friendly jab Reelfast. I spent 3 months in Costa Rica, it's pretty nice but too hookers and a little too Americanized for my tastes - Nicaruaga & Panama now that's where its at.
Let the guy charge whatever he wants....its his show! If he thinks he can make a buck, then so be it, dont trash him on a public forum because his rates r not the same...Maybe times r tough for him..we dont know! Rollie and L/chance r good guides, and u r booked all summer, so dont stress about a few groupon charters, like someone else said on here, they wouldnt book u anyway, cause its too much money. For people who cant afford 1000+ a day, its an affordable way to go fishing...The only question I have is, why do guides charge more in the summer and less in the winter? The costs r the same, the only difference is u dont have to get up as early! Nobody wants to fish the winter, so the rates r lower, to draw in business(kinda what were talkin about here). Its costs the same to go to conny bank or sooke in Nov. as Aug...Atleast the guy is trying to stay working and making some money, he could be the crackhead thats gonna steal your downriggers and kicker, but hes not! (probably would make more money doing that tho)! Im j/k......cheers
yep, if you are gear saltwater guy, panama has some really big bill fish. friend was down earlier this year and did quite well on monster blue's. but the shallower waters off of the Osa pennisula are my favorite as the bills can't sound so my fly gear is all i take down there. all you have to do is get away from the big city to leave the onclaves of north american retirees.
the business climate has indeed changed down this way as well. i am really thankful that i retired way back when. my BIL runs an underground construction business in santa barbara, california. he was used to millions/month in contracts and was employing about 80 people full time and paying them very well as expenses down that way are insane. he is down to the office staff and zero work for months now. bidding on jobs come from companies 200-300 miles distant and they win because of their lower overhead. i suspect that my BIL who started his business with a pickup truck and a shovel may be on the verge of bankrupcy. its hard to see this happenning to people you know, particularly when they have worked their hearts out, but the economy is what it is and with the emphasis on shutting down the economic engine of the federal goverment, it is only going to get worse.
Salmon boy...lets be real clear...I'm not booked up all summer...this will be my worst year ever, even worst than my 1st year in the biz. That is what the guys who charge low ball rates are doing to the few guys like me trying to make this a serious profession. I don't blame the guy looking for a charter who discovers that some very good fishermen are fools who under value their services and work too cheap. In most towns 90% charge appropriate rates consistent with costs and a reasonable profit for what is a short season. In those areas there is also the 10% new comers or part timers who undercut to get some work. Those 10% have a minimal effect on the other 90%. In Sooke 90% are undercharging and are making it impossible for the other 10% to survive. So far I'm happy with the debate pro and con by this post....however one comment made back on page one gets my goat. The comment that my costs only involve a few bucks in fuel to run 5 minutes to the Island. Most of you in Sooke know I seldom fish the Island and often move around going where ever it takes to produce a catch. The amount of fuel I burn doesn't enter my mind because my prices allow me to forget about it and do what it takes. Lets not forget well over 100K for the boat, 30K for the diesel truck to pull it around, the 7k trailer, marketing costs, insurance, moorage, accounting fees, bait, gear etc etc.... Did I mention that for the other 24 busy years I had no summer with my family, working 7 days a week...out the door at 4am and often not home until 7-8pm. Time to eat, return calls, shower and off to bed. Sound like fun? Then deal with the public in a very small space for 10 hours, on 4 or 5 hours sleep all summer long. Try it!!! Many of the guys who were guides back when I started are gone, divorced and had to start over. I'm not sure how I escaped that fate....guess I found a keeper for a partner.
Aces
Well-Known Member
Hey Rollie. I'm with you on all that. Like you i've been at it for most of my adult life and face the same challlenges. I'm sure Lorne will pipe in with some negative comment everytime i comment in the same vein. All we can hope for is loyal regular clients and those guys to go broke sooner than later.
Good luck
Good luck
Dennis.t
Active Member
I have no doubt you work your butt off. I would trade my life as a oil patch worker for a summer of fun on the water any day.Try working long hrs,day in,day out,weeks away from home and family in 40 below temps.Having to put up with all the miserable assholes pissed off thier in Fort Mac. Lol
Thanks Shawn. I agree with you Dennis...I'm not the only one who when busy puts in long hours. But imagine me and a bunch of part time guides coming to Fort Mac and offering to do your job for 50% of your wages...and then you are stuck in Fort mac only working 50% of the time. I hate the cold so you don't have to worry about that one!! 
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lorneparker1
Banned
Nope I wish you guys the best of luck! I wish no ill will on anyone. It's an industry that is changing. ( like all industriesin the last 10 years) The folks that can build a solid business plan and use it as a road map to financial success, utilize the internet and social media for net working and marketing and most of all give the client the most value for their money, will survive. Like all business the guys who refuse to change will be out ofthe picture. I know some folks who are making very good money guiding, but they a have a great plan and are excuting.I hope everyone can do the same. There is a TON of money to go around in the industry IMO.
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High Velocity
Member
Dennis.T, I hear where you're coming from, it's not easy. Did the oilfield camp thing and it's not fun. However, I also fully understand what profisher is saying and if you think you'd gladly trade for a summer of fun out fishing, you haven't fully thought out what it is these guys are doing. I would think that first and foremost, they are trying to make a living for them and their families. To do this, they get up at ungodly hours every morning and put on a happy face for their clients. Even if they end up with the planet's biggest a-hole on their boat, they'll do their best to smile and make sure the aforementioned a-hole has an amazing day. If they have any issues with their boat or gear, they'll be up late taking care of it, because they've got another group booked to head out at 6:00 am the next day. It's not like going out for a few easy days fishing with your buddies. It's their job (a good job, but still a job) to make all of their clients have an exceptional experience. Repeat business depends on it. The stress of this as well as all the expenses involved, can take the "fun" out of it over time.
Sent from my iPad when I should be fishing.
Sent from my iPad when I should be fishing.
stones93
Well-Known Member
For every Mercedes dealership, there are many more Kia dealerships. You get what you pay for, but if these cut raters are going to ruin your buisness, you MUST adapt. You have to make a living yes but your are NOT entitled to it. I use the most expensive guides and lodges because I can and appreciate the difference, but with the world issues right now, if someone is undercutting you to establish a buisness, either you can justify the extra expense (which I see appreciate and fortunately can afford) or you have to adjust! Thats the economy we live in. Unfortunately, salmon fishing is in the luxury disposable income category and if someone makes it affordable to the masses....you will suffer. I stress that I support quality guides and operations but there is a huge untapped market that can't afford you anyways. You may loose some buisness but if quality is important, they will come back.
High Velocity
Member
Years ago, I took my son on a charter for halibut out of Victoria. We had seen numerous halibut coming in to the harbor, so I went down to the boats and asked about prices. Unfortunately they were all out of my price range at the time (which was very disappointing to both my son and me), so I went on the hunt for a cheaper charter. I found one that would save us (me) over $150. The next morning, we were on this dipshit's boat. We got out to our spot and that's where our captain stayed for the day. We caught one dogfish all day and watched numerous hali's being caught within 200 yards of us. I asked our captain if we can move over by the other boats and he told me that the spot we were on is one of his best spots, so he saw no reason to move. We had "words" when we returned to the harbour and it was my first big lesson in "getting what you pay for". I wish I would have ponied up the extra bucks and gone with one of the guys that actually knew what he was doing.
Sent from my iPad when I should be fishing.
Sent from my iPad when I should be fishing.
GLG
Well-Known Member
Interesting post with some sage advise.
How do you survive in this economic climate?
Adapt is the answer.
Look at all your costs and see where you can save money.
Negotiate with your supplies for better pricing.
They want you to survive for there own reasons.
Develop a new product that you can turn a profit.
Is it easy? Heck no, but if there are examples out there see how they do it.
GLG
(not a guide but my bones feel like it after that last trip)
How do you survive in this economic climate?
Adapt is the answer.
Look at all your costs and see where you can save money.
Negotiate with your supplies for better pricing.
They want you to survive for there own reasons.
Develop a new product that you can turn a profit.
Is it easy? Heck no, but if there are examples out there see how they do it.
GLG
(not a guide but my bones feel like it after that last trip)
lorneparker1
Banned
I agree with everything you said, However, Guiding is self employment. And i dont know anyone else that is self employed that either goes through very much of the simliar things or Has gone through very similar things. Renewal rates, and customer loyality is the life blood of any business not just guiding. The reason this topic gets me fired up sometimes is because for some reason its not viewed the same when it comes to guiding. Most owners of a business work their butt off. Also none of the side benefits of owning your own business are ever discussed which are , being your own boss, not having to answer to anyone, not being accountable to anyone, being in control of when you start work and when you leave work, and how hard you work. Taking time off when you want, claiming expenses such as fuel, % of your boat and vehicle and house, gear, moorage, and the list goes on and on and on. If you have been in the business and are not seeing those benefits, then its time to find another career path IMO. If under cutters are driving you ouot of business its time to hold up the mirror and see why. In almost ALL business undercutters dont last. But them and the economy are the easiest thing to blame. All areas of the coast have the same issues. Slower economy, at par canadian dollar, undercutters etcetc. Yet there are guys making money hand over fist, there are guys going breaking even, and there are guys ready to close the doors. Why?
Dennis.t
Active Member
Not much chance of that happening.More jobs then tradesmen available.Work,work and more work.To be on the water,breathing the fresh air,meeting new people every day,catching tons of fish. Take that any day over staying in camp with a bunch of pissed off drunksThanks Shawn. I agree with you Dennis...I'm not the only one who when busy puts in long hours. But imagine me and a bunch of part time guides coming to Fort Mac and offering to do your job for 50% of your wages...and then you are stuck in Fort mac only working 50% of the time. I hate the cold so you don't have to worry about that one!!
Aces
Well-Known Member
Not much chance of that happening.More jobs then tradesmen available.Work,work and more work.To be on the water,breathing the fresh air,meeting new people every day,catching tons of fish. Take that any day over staying in camp with a bunch of pissed off drunks
I'll probably have to come up there this winter to subsidize my business Dennis. I don't have a trade other than a class 1 licence
Some times it isn't the cost!
I've been out a few times, with very experienced guides and never got a Hali!
One of the more notable ones, I had booked for 3 full days, after suggesting we move, and recieving the "one of my best spots" reply, I insisted we go Salmon fishing for a while.
Never caught but one little Jack, which I'm sure died, because this PRO., was using barbed hooks.
Needless to say, I cancelled the rest of my bookings with him, went out with a non-pro type that was reccomended to me and we had a great couple of days!
Cost about 2/3 of what the other A-hole charged!
I've gone out with LastChance since then, we have had good and bad days as well, so it isn't the $$$$ that catch the fish!
that might not work out, unless your Somolian! LOL
adaptation, yes lorne i have to agree with your comment. the problem is folks sweat their lives into building a business, get used to the long hours as well as the perks which come their way, and then have to suddenly start thinking about whats next. again my BIL, up at 0500 every single day of the working week, back home 1900. got used to the big income and is sort of stuck in the 'pride' thing where he figures he is due given all of that hard work. unfortunately, there are plenty of young guys who are starting, just like he did, with a pickup and a shovel. undercutting his luxurious overhead on bid after bid after bid after bid. his answer? its the unions and big government. i ask him what percentage of his work came from local, state and federal construstion bids that he won fair and square. it stopped him in his tracks but he still does not understand that what he is backing is causing his business to collapse. its the pride thing getting in the way of him being able to step back and look in the mirror.
guiding is a tough business given all of the public you folks have to deal with to survive. decades ago i gave it a whirl but decided pretty fast that assholes and i just could not spend the day together without my flattening someones nose. more power to all of you who deal with this on a daily basis. surviving is not easy when the disposable income disappears for so many. reviewing your personal business plan is a swell suggestion by so many respondents. given where the world economy is today, trying to do business as you did yesterday is a sure guarantee to the collapse of the business you have sweat your blood into.
guiding is a tough business given all of the public you folks have to deal with to survive. decades ago i gave it a whirl but decided pretty fast that assholes and i just could not spend the day together without my flattening someones nose. more power to all of you who deal with this on a daily basis. surviving is not easy when the disposable income disappears for so many. reviewing your personal business plan is a swell suggestion by so many respondents. given where the world economy is today, trying to do business as you did yesterday is a sure guarantee to the collapse of the business you have sweat your blood into.
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